When is an atheist a Christian?

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The message is simple.

Secularism has overtaken the Church.
The Church needs to adapt.
At the moment the Church and Secularism are like ships passing., the secular ship the larger.
Now is the time to act.
If you want to save the Church you need to get the two ships to change course and follow the same course.
It requires compromise on both sides.

From what I see the Church will not change course.
The secular ship has no reason to.

It’s not my problem. I exist above both ships in a plane.
 
Sins against the First Commandment are, by definition, specially against God, because the First Commandment concerns our relationship with God.

Non-belief is not seen by God as some kind of regular opinion, but an explicit denial of Him and His due Glory, and being that God is a higher good than any man, and deserves more than any man, to sin against Him is more heinous to sin against men.

Atheism is always a mortal sin.
 
ChunkMonk said:
Non-belief is not seen by God as…
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When I see a person attempt to speak for God, I know instantly that I’m probably listening to a person that has no idea what they’re talking about.
 
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Being a Christian means you believe thousands upon thousands of men were given the authority to speak for God. So the simplistic platitude doesn’t really hold here and what you’re really saying is that you don’t like people speaking for God when you think they are wrong.

Welcome to the club. No one likes that. That’s why we argue about it and find out who’s got it right.
 
ChunkMonk said:
Being a Christian means you believe thousands upon thousands of men were given the authority to speak for God.
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The Church can speak for God generally, but by it’s own admission it can’t on particulars.

As the popular line goes, “We don’t know who is or isn’t in hell”.

Internalize that.

Edit: Unless, I guess, if you’re a Saint. Exception noted.
 
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So what did I say about God that you found so offensive?

I didn’t claim anyone was in Hell… I said atheism is a mortal sin. Which is supported by the Church.
 
ChunkMonk said:
So what did I say about God that you found so offensive?

I didn’t claim anyone was in Hell… I said atheism is a mortal sin. Which is supported by the Church.
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In order for something to be a mortal sin, these qualifications must be met:

Its subject matter must be grave.
It must be committed with full knowledge (and awareness) of the sinful action and the gravity of the offense.
It must be committed with deliberate and complete consent.

As to whether a given atheist has met all qualifications, you simply cannot know. I’d argue the vast, vast majority of atheists absolutely lack “full knowledge” and “complete consent”.

What I find offensive is when mere sacks of flesh like you and me claim to speak for God in any particular situation.

It is the ultimate arrogance.
 
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Vonsalza said:
What I find offensive is when mere sacks of flesh like you and me claim to speak for God in any particular situation.

It is the ultimate arrogance.
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Welcome to CAF, where half the people posting have God on speed dial and know what He wants now and for the future even better than the Pope.
 
That’s a rather radical view, and while not necessarily unorthodox, is pretty close.

Given your understanding of the second “requirement” only Catholics would be capable of mortal sin.
 
ChunkMonk said:
That’s a rather radical view, and while not necessarily unorthodox, is pretty close.

Given your understanding of the second “requirement” only Catholics would be capable of mortal sin.
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With greater knowledge; greater culpability.

To whom much is given, much is required.
 
Nope. If you read my posts, you might even find one from today or yesterday where I write that we, including myself, can’t possibly comprehend God.

I reckon He wants us to follow the 10 OT commandments and the 2 NT commandments, and pray. I personally choose to believe (not required for Catholics, it’s a choice) in the numerous private revelations of Jesus, Mary and the saints that tell us to pray, sacrifice and make reparation. All of these things seem to be good, reasonable activities anyway. I think even atheists would agree with most of the Commandments like thou shalt not steal and thou shalt not kill.

I defer to our Pope because as an RC, that’s what you do - plus the Popes in my lifetime have all seemed like good men to me who were sincerely trying very hard to lead the Church in a good direction, even when I disagreed with them.

But I do not claim to know what God wants outside of praying and following His Commandments. I’m just a bear. I don’t have any big knowledge of the Almighty. I don’t have any super insightful gift of scriptural or doctrinal interpretation, and I’d be highly suspicious of anyone who claimed they did.
 
Vonsalza said:
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ChunkMonk:
That’s a rather radical view, and while not necessarily unorthodox, is pretty close.

Given your understanding of the second “requirement” only Catholics would be capable of mortal sin.
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With greater knowledge; greater culpability.

To whom much is given, much is required.
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so does everybody go to heaven but catholics?

is there another church that believes in the levels of sin? most protestant around me don’t since all sin is forgiven. but you still have to believe.
 
Jumping in here quite late… sorry if this was addressed.

Atheists are more than someone being unsure, or struggling with the concept of God. They deny He exists.

Jesus does explain that it’s not just those who say “Yes, Lord” or have the appearance of religious devotion, but those who do His father’s will, that will be received into His kingdom.

But this doesn’t exclude belief.

John 6
**Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of man will give to you; for on him has God the Father set his seal.” Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” **

Mark 16
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Unless the Gospel which someone heard is so vague or distorted, which most likely wouldn’t hold the conviction of God, whoever hears the message about Jesus would be condemning themselves to discard it. How can a soul be searching for God, and reject Jesus? It’s impossible.

No amount of good work can save anyone, if they reject the heart of God’s love, which is manifest in Christ.
 
We are all here, Muslims, Atheists, Jews, Protestants, Buddhists, Hindus, and Catholics, too, spinning around on our earth living our lives and spending time until we pass on. Everyone has an opinion. No matter how you slice it, there is only one truth and only one of these groups gets it right. Hopefully, if I am in the group who got it right, God will have mercy on all the other groups who messed up.
Why would you want to spend your life though with the wrong group? You all think that you are right. But I know deep in my heart and my soul that I am right. Jesus was given to us by god the Father right at the time of the Golden Age. Right there between B.C. and A.D.,(or BCE and CE for all you non-believers). He left us his words and actions in the New Testament that complement the Old Writings that make up the Old Testament. He gave us his mother, who will respond to anyone of any faith, saint or sinner who calls on her.
For you of the modern era, the photographic negative image of the Shroud of Turin should convince you of his crucifixion, death and resurrection. And having just celebrated the 100th anniversary of Fatima, where a foretold miracle was witnessed by 70,000 believers and skeptics, you should have enough reason to believe.
In any case, God bless.
 
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