When is being gay not gay?

[masscup]

I know this may sound confrontational but that is not my intent. I would like your honest opinion and feedback.

Background info. I am in study group for my M.A.T. degree and the subject of homosexuality came up. I posed the question if a person never had sexual contact with a person of the same sex, can they still be gay? I know Jesus said if we perform the act in our heart, it is the same as performing the act physically, but for sake of argument, let’s say the “act” is not even desired in the heart.

My inquiry is due to the fact that I a family member who has been ridiculed since his teens about being “gay”. He’s had girlfriends and never even thought about being with a man, yet he has similar to what many would stereotype as a homosexual or very “metrosexual” tendencies. He acts very effeminate, cares about his appearance almost to the point of obsession, and prefers the company of women. It’s got to the point that he doesn’t try to hide flamboyance, and still vehemently denies he likes men. He usually lets the taunts and accusations roll of his back, yet he still tells me in confidence that it bothers him. I thought it odd that he approached me about it because I am the most devout Catholic in our family, although we have been close since we were rug rats. He told me the reason he wanted to talk to me about it is that he knows he’ll get a straight answer and he knows he has nothing to hide so he thought I would be a good sounding board.

He gets “hit on” by gay men and that usually elicits a snide or nasty remark on his part. He’s not gay and has no desire to be with a man. But he says he is who he is. He has a great desire to settle down and start a family but whenever he has an interest in a woman, they usually don’t take him seriously. Fortunately we (his family) love him unconditionally so he has that love that supports him, but he’s not sure what he should do. I told him to forget what everyone else says and tell them go fornicate themselves with a stick but he says that gets old after a while when it is constantly in his face.

Your advice is greatly appreciated. Please help me with what I should tell him.

God Bless

 

[bilop]

I know this may sound confrontational but that is not my intent. I would like your honest opinion and feedback.

Background info. I am in study group for my M.A.T. degree and the subject of homosexuality came up. I posed the question if a person never had sexual contact with a person of the same sex, can they still be gay? I know Jesus said if we perform the act in our heart, it is the same as performing the act physically, but for sake of argument, let’s say the “act” is not even desired in the heart.

My inquiry is due to the fact that I a family member who has been ridiculed since his teens about being “gay”. He’s had girlfriends and never even thought about being with a man, yet he has similar to what many would stereotype as a homosexual or very “metrosexual” tendencies. He acts very effeminate, cares about his appearance almost to the point of obsession, and prefers the company of women. It’s got to the point that he doesn’t try to hide flamboyance, and still vehemently denies he likes men. He usually lets the taunts and accusations roll of his back, yet he still tells me in confidence that it bothers him. I thought it odd that he approached me about it because I am the most devout Catholic in our family, although we have been close since we were rug rats. He told me the reason he wanted to talk to me about it is that he knows he’ll get a straight answer and he knows he has nothing to hide so he thought I would be a good sounding board.

He gets “hit on” by gay men and that usually elicits a snide or nasty remark on his part. He’s not gay and has no desire to be with a man. But he says he is who he is. He has a great desire to settle down and start a family but whenever he has an interest in a woman, they usually don’t take him seriously. Fortunately we (his family) love him unconditionally so he has that love that supports him, but he’s not sure what he should do. I told him to forget what everyone else says and tell them go fornicate themselves with a stick but he says that gets old after a while when it is constantly in his face.

Your advice is greatly appreciated. Please help me with what I should tell him.

God Bless

If he has no attraction to men, he is not gay.
Even if he had same sex attraction (SSA), while it is disordered, it would not be sinful unless he acted upon it.

If it is causing him difficulties, he might try to moderate his behavior, so as not to mislead people and cause these uncomfortable confrontations.

God Bless

 

[Joe_5859]

Wow, poor guy! Has he ever tried standing up to these people that taunt him? Is there any way he can remove himself from these situations? Praise God that he has you in his life!

Other than that, Bilop is right. Simply having SSA is not sinful, only the acting on it is sinful. And if he says that he’s not attracted to men, it seems there’s no reason to believe he even has SSA.

 

[skatepixie]

No, he is not gay. The sin here resides with those who are being so horridly judgemental and making assumptions about him.

However, if just having sex with a member of the same sex is what makes you gay, how can I (a virgin) claim to be straight? (Because wouldn’t it work both ways?) Well, of course, it is because I have romantic feelings for the opposite sex and not for my own sex. I like men, I’m a woman, this maks me straight.

So, orientation (for lack of a better word) is more than just who you have had sex with. While it may not be a sin for someone to feel attractions that they choose not to engage in, I would say that people tend to figure out their orientation by their attractions long before they act on it. (Hopefully)

 

[Exalt]

Being *attracted *to the same sex has become the commonly accepted definition of “gay”. Your family member is therefore not gay.

(But as a side note, having had sexual contact [at some point in your life] with another man or woman is *not *a prerequisite for being gay. That’s sort of like saying a virgin can’t call himself/herself straight.)

 

[Mirdath]

Not all heterosexual men are Archie Bunker, and not all homosexual men are limp-wristed, effeminate hairdressers.

Dealing with flirts, a simple ‘I don’t swing that way’ is fine (and perfectly polite). Dealing with idiots, ‘shove it up’… yeah, it gets old, but what else are you going to do? Conform to their flawed expectations of masculinity – that’s the problem in the first place, isn’t it?

 

[Newbie2]

If he has no attraction to men, he is not gay.
Even if he had same sex attraction (SSA), while it is disordered, it would not be sinful unless he acted upon it.

If it is causing him difficulties, he might try to moderate his behavior, so as not to mislead people and cause these uncomfortable confrontations.

God Bless

Therein lies the problem. He is who he is (as far as his effeminate mannerisms). Modifying other’s negative responses to his behavior is pretty much impossible, so he’s got to learn to either deal with it or, perhaps much more difficult to do as bilop suggests modify his mannerisms. Either way, it’s difficult.

I had a friend in college who was very effeminate, hung out with the girls in the dorm most of the time (perhaps they trusted him? ). Didn’t have a shred of “gay” in him. We went to his wedding (yes, to a woman) and have since lost contact, but I assume he’s still the same.

But to the OP’s question, that brings up a tactic used by homosexual advocates against today’s youth. Ever heard a grade-schooler called gay (in the sexual orientation term, not the common insult term) ? They’ll often refer to kids that have not yet developed any sort of sexual attraction yet gay, maybe bisexual or (pre) transgender, if they show any effeminate tendencies.

This practice to me is deplorable, i.e. attempting to lead children who may show such tendencies eventually into a homosexual lifestyle as adults, under the guise of allowing them to be who they are or were born to be.

Maybe some effeminate children will turn out to have a SSA, maybe not. Pusing sexuality on young children…well…methinks derserves the millstone around the neck that’s described in scripture.

 

[Maxply]

You know this is a real problem for men. . . the excessive stereotyping of what’s supposed to be male behavior. Do women appreciate the dimensions of this problem?

I can’t stand televised professional spectator sports. It’s a waste of time to talk about the Cubs.

I wonder if our social situation----being fast-paced—makes us rely more on quick stereotypes of people and of human psychology. It certainly makes us less amenable to philosophical subtlety. . . or any thought that takes more than 10 seconds to say.

OP Masscup: don’t worry. I think it’s perfectly fine for the guy to be the way he is. It’s a shame that many people view males in a narrow fashion: that men cannot, e.g., like poetry, or gardening, without getting denigrated.

 

[Danny_OC]

He acts very effeminate, cares about his appearance almost to the point of obsession, and prefers the company of women.

I’m not condemning this guy… but I’m also not going to say he’s free of all guilt. None of those things are good, and by choosing to behave like that he is in a way asking for the gay men to hit on him. Men should not act effeminate, they should not obsess over appearance (neither should women though, that is vanity), and he should be able to socialize more closely with those of his own gender. It is not arbitrary that God made men one way and women another, and even if we are not doing anything patently homosexual, it’s not our place to do away with these natural and purposeful distinctions.

 

[Tonks40]

I’m not condemning this guy… but I’m also not going to say he’s free of all guilt. None of those things are good, and by choosing to behave like that he is in a way asking for the gay men to hit on him. Men should not act effeminate, they should not obsess over appearance (neither should women though, that is vanity), and he should be able to socialize more closely with those of his own gender. It is not arbitrary that God made men one way and women another, and even if we are not doing anything patently homosexual, it’s not our place to do away with these natural and purposeful distinctions.

Whose to say what are “natural and purposeful distinctions” between men and women when it comes to outward behaviors?

Sexual stereotypes are dictated by the society. If a man acts in a perceived effeminate manner, those around him who have bought into the whole notion that effeminate behaviors equate to sexual orientation are the ones in the wrong, not the man himself.

 

[Danny_OC]

Whose to say what are “natural and purposeful distinctions” between men and women when it comes to outward behaviors?

Sexual stereotypes are dictated by the society. If a man acts in a perceived effeminate manner, those around him who have bought into the whole notion that effeminate behaviors equate to sexual orientation are the ones in the wrong, not the man himself.

I’m not saying he’s gay, I’m just taking note that acting in proportion to the biology God has chosen for you is not so trivial as some would claim. Many aspects of what you demean as being simply “societal sexual stereotypes” have actually been around for millenniums, and Jesus had no problem with them.

 

[Maynoothman]

He’s not gay because he
a) he doesnt suffer from persistent and predominant SSA’s
b) he hasn’t acted upon those attractions and chose to declare himself gay.

to the dude who was talking about behaviour patterns being god given . . .em. . . not really, most people now accept they are cultural.
I am sure that you would probably consider sleeping in the same bed with a man, holding hands with other men etc to be disordered . . . . . but that is the practice in alot of african cultures and there is no stigma of SSA’s attached to those.

for mutuality to operate there needs to be differences between the sexes. . . that is more to do with how we view and interact with the world, its to do with our very selves, and has nothing to do with who wants to have nice products in their hair.

In my opinion anyways.

 

[Danny_OC]

He’s not gay because he
a) he doesnt suffer from persistent and predominant SSA’s
b) he hasn’t acted upon those attractions and chose to declare himself gay.

to the dude who was talking about behaviour patterns being god given . . .em. . . not really, most people now accept they are cultural.
I am sure that you would probably consider sleeping in the same bed with a man, holding hands with other men etc to be disordered . . . . . but that is the practice in alot of african cultures and there is no stigma of SSA’s attached to those.

for mutuality to operate there needs to be differences between the sexes. . . that is more to do with how we view and interact with the world, its to do with our very selves, and has nothing to do with who wants to have nice products in their hair.

In my opinion anyways.

Women caring more about looks than men is cross cultural and has always been that way. I’m sure there are exceptions, but they’re just that, and not the rule.

Again, I’m not saying the man in question is gay… he obviously isn’t! I just want to make the case that many of the gender distinctions in place, even the not purely sexual ones, are not to be thrown aside as if they had no value.

 

[deb1]

You know this is a real problem for men. . . the excessive stereotyping of what’s supposed to be male behavior. Do women appreciate the dimensions of this problem?

I can’t stand televised professional spectator sports. It’s a waste of time to talk about the Cubs.

I wonder if our social situation----being fast-paced—makes us rely more on quick stereotypes of people and of human psychology. It certainly makes us less amenable to philosophical subtlety. . . or any thought that takes more than 10 seconds to say.

OP Masscup: don’t worry. I think it’s perfectly fine for the guy to be the way he is. It’s a shame that many people view males in a narrow fashion: that men cannot, e.g., like poetry, or gardening, without getting denigrated.

Women get this stereotype thrown at them also. My sister was always such an extreme tomboy that people asked early if she was a lesbian. She isn’t. She is happily married with three kids.
I think that other people’s opinion really hurt my younger sister. She is a very sweet person.

 

[Tonks40]

Women caring more about looks than men is cross cultural and has always been that way. I’m sure there are exceptions, but they’re just that, and not the rule.

Again, I’m not saying the man in question is gay… he obviously isn’t! I just want to make the case that many of the gender distinctions in place, even the not purely sexual ones, are not to be thrown aside as if they had no value.

I don’t think anyone here is trying to “do away” with some of the prominent gender distinctions associated what is considered in this society, at least, to represent maleness. Of course, being that we’re human and that we get a lot of our social perceptions from those who brought us up and society in general, we’ll have tendencies to look at the type of behaviors men and women exhibit to dictate our perceptions of sexual orientation. Let me suggest that maybe we’re placing the value of outward behavior on a higher level than we should.

It’s just a little frustrating that many can come to the conclusion of one’s sexuality, flawed and inaccurate as it can possibly be, on a set of behaviors that society deems contrary to the sexual stereotype that is perpetuated.

 

[Danny_OC]

I don’t think anyone here is trying to “do away” with some of the prominent gender distinctions associated what is considered in this society, at least, to represent maleness. Of course, being that we’re human and that we get a lot of our social perceptions from those who brought us up and society in general, we’ll have tendencies to look at the type of behaviors men and women exhibit to dictate our perceptions of sexual orientation. Let me suggest that maybe we’re placing the value of outward behavior on a higher level than we should.

It’s just a little frustrating that many can come to the conclusion of one’s sexuality, flawed and inaccurate as it can possibly be, on a set of behaviors that society deems contrary to the sexual stereotype that is perpetuated.

Right. Most people today will examine the behavior of people and come to the conclusion that 15% of the population is gay, and there’s no way that’s true. If homosexuality really isn’t a choice, and is indeed genetic, I don’t see how we could have such a high percentage of them today while not very long ago at all, there were barely any.

 

[August_AWeitzel]

I know this may sound confrontational but that is not my intent. I would like your honest opinion and feedback.

Background info. I am in study group for my M.A.T. degree and the subject of homosexuality came up. I posed the question if a person never had sexual contact with a person of the same sex, can they still be gay? I know Jesus said if we perform the act in our heart, it is the same as performing the act physically, but for sake of argument, let’s say the “act” is not even desired in the heart.

My inquiry is due to the fact that I a family member who has been ridiculed since his teens about being “gay”. He’s had girlfriends and never even thought about being with a man, yet he has similar to what many would stereotype as a homosexual or very “metrosexual” tendencies. He acts very effeminate, cares about his appearance almost to the point of obsession, and prefers the company of women. It’s got to the point that he doesn’t try to hide flamboyance, and still vehemently denies he likes men. He usually lets the taunts and accusations roll of his back, yet he still tells me in confidence that it bothers him. I thought it odd that he approached me about it because I am the most devout Catholic in our family, although we have been close since we were rug rats. He told me the reason he wanted to talk to me about it is that he knows he’ll get a straight answer and he knows he has nothing to hide so he thought I would be a good sounding board.

He gets “hit on” by gay men and that usually elicits a snide or nasty remark on his part. He’s not gay and has no desire to be with a man. But he says he is who he is. He has a great desire to settle down and start a family but whenever he has an interest in a woman, they usually don’t take him seriously. Fortunately we (his family) love him unconditionally so he has that love that supports him, but he’s not sure what he should do. I told him to forget what everyone else says and tell them go fornicate themselves with a stick but he says that gets old after a while when it is constantly in his face.

Your advice is greatly appreciated. Please help me with what I should tell him.

God Bless

 

[August_AWeitzel]

There are many men that are very sensitive and loveing by nature. Many are nurses and Doctors, or Ministers of the Lord. If you freind walked around with a bible under his arm, some of the questions about his sexual orentation would stop. He should stop flaulting his feminity thou.
Just be himself, some young lady will take him under her wing and everythimng should work out okay.

 

[Radikal]

Background info. I am in study group for my M.A.T. degree and the subject of homosexuality came up. I posed the question if a person never had sexual contact with a person of the same sex, can they still be gay?

The answer is yes.

I know Jesus said if we perform the act in our heart, it is the same as performing the act physically,

Jesus never said anything of a sort. Matt 5:28 is strictly about coveting thy neighbor’s wife.

but for sake of argument, let’s say the “act” is not even desired in the heart.

Then where’s the sin?

My inquiry is due to the fact that I a family member who has been ridiculed since his teens about being “gay”. He’s had girlfriends and never even thought about being with a man, yet he has similar to what many would stereotype as a homosexual or very “metrosexual” tendencies. He acts very effeminate, cares about his appearance almost to the point of obsession, and prefers the company of women. It’s got to the point that he doesn’t try to hide flamboyance, and still vehemently denies he likes men. He usually lets the taunts and accusations roll of his back, yet he still tells me in confidence that it bothers him. I thought it odd that he approached me about it because I am the most devout Catholic in our family, although we have been close since we were rug rats. He told me the reason he wanted to talk to me about it is that he knows he’ll get a straight answer and he knows he has nothing to hide so he thought I would be a good sounding board.

But if he’s not gay he’s not gay.

He gets “hit on” by gay men and that usually elicits a snide or nasty remark on his part. He’s not gay and has no desire to be with a man. But he says he is who he is. He has a great desire to settle down and start a family but whenever he has an interest in a woman, they usually don’t take him seriously. Fortunately we (his family) love him unconditionally so he has that love that supports him, but he’s not sure what he should do. I told him to forget what everyone else says and tell them go fornicate themselves with a stick but he says that gets old after a while when it is constantly in his face.

Your advice is greatly appreciated. Please help me with what I should tell him.

God Bless

Tell him to either butch it up or except that people are jerks. And if he dresses well, and prefers the company of women that doesn’t make his gay, it makes him smart. I wish I was hanging out with a chick right now instead of sitting here writing this. LOL. And I do have the clothes.

 

[Radikal]

Right. Most people today will examine the behavior of people and come to the conclusion that 15% of the population is gay, and there’s no way that’s true. If homosexuality really isn’t a choice, and is indeed genetic, I don’t see how we could have such a high percentage of them today while not very long ago at all, there were barely any.

Gays were very closeted then and they are more “in your face” now. Read the Bible (here I go again) way back then there was a whole city of gays (a twin city at that) it was called Sodom and Gomorrah.