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Cruciferi
Guest
Women tend to remember these earlier events better than men. Also, some people still do not remember very much before the age of 10. I do not recall much before the age of 7.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Well, I am up front and tell my friends if they are being ignorant or selfish, etc.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
Exactly. But in discussing with children, I think it is important not to say "He sucks. ". “His behavior really sucked today” I think is a better way to phrase it, and I think most kids can pick up on the nuance of it. You know, kids get spoken to about behavior all of the time. They know they are still “good” even if their behavior is bad on a particular day. (assuming they are being mentored and raised appropriately). You never know, she may cross paths with him in some other arena and I think it is harsh to forever consider him as someone who sucks, when the interaction didn’t really afford enough insight to know if he really does. I guess what I am saying is we don’t need to be fools, but the charitable thing is to give the benefit of the doubt to someone even if they messed up before, yes?
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PetraG
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This is what I mean to say. Even the Pope makes mistakes and needs to apologize. It is not our place to judge people or call them things like “fool.” I didn’t make that up; it is in the plain meaning of the Gospel.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
When I used to be a church-goer, and I crossed paths with someone during the week who I was sure “really sucked” I was able to dial it back for myself by saying to myself “Best be careful. What if he shows up in the pew next to me next Sunday Mass?” The funny thing is, more times than I can count, it would happen. Maybe not next Sunday, and maybe not right in the pew next to me…but at the same Mass. I didn’t want to have to spend Mass time feeling so bad for writing the person off as sucking. How bad can they be if they come to Mass, afterall?
I prefer to assume someone is having a bad day when I have an unpleasant, singular encounter with them. It makes my life easier
I prefer to assume someone is having a bad day when I have an unpleasant, singular encounter with them. It makes my life easier
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PetraG
Guest
Well, teach your daughter that when someone fails in manners, you aren’t going to go ballistic and start name-calling. It wasn’t inherently uncharitable at all to tell the person that it is inappropriate to give any person the silent treatment, whether they are a child or not, and then spoken to the supervisor about the need to make certain that it doesn’t happen again.
Chewing out the supervisor for “letting such an idiot work there” was over the top. I’m sorry, but it just was. The guy made a faux pas and it was inconvenient for you, but please face the fact that it may have been the first time he’s ever dealt with a six-year-old conducting actual business. Give the guy a break. Mercy is something we need to teach our children a lot more than confidence. If you want them to trust that you are a merciful person, show mercy even when you are justifiably upset. Showing mercy when someone “deserves” it isn’t really all that merciful. (The pagans do as much.)
Besides, most people do not send six year olds on errands when the parent is nowhere near to intervene if the child needs assistance. That is an unusual thing to do. Maybe it shouldn’t be, but get used to having to train people to cope with it and decide to have a bit more grace about it, maybe?
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Allegra
Guest
We discuss the non-permanence of “suckiness” and the ability to choose to do better fairly regularly. She knows that making a bad choice does not mean one has to make bad choices forever. However, I think its important that she understands that this was 100% HIS bad choice and she didn’t do anything wrong. Even if she does interact with him at a point in time where he has chosen not to suck, (although it seem unlikely that is going to happen at that particular library) he still chose to suck on that particular point in time. We understand that he doesn’t have to suck forever.
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Allegra
Guest
This is just a bunch of gaslighting. There is literally nothing wrong with a child of six going into a public building. The university themselves have specifically designed a space for children to sit and read and play on the computer while their parents work. My question was how to restore confidence in my child and you are obsessed with victim blaming a child and making excuses for inexcusable behavior from an adult, disguised sanctimoniously as being merciful. Maybe you should worry about your own grace?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Look, I think we all understand what you are trying to say, as you’ve made multiple posts now saying the same thing multiple times. Allegra was angry; she is a mom whose child was hurt, she reacted like a tiger, as moms often do. There’s no need to keep lecturing her about it. None of us are perfect, all of us lose our temper, even moms. If you think what Allegra did was so bad then I’m glad you never met my mother, most of the other mothers in my neighborhood, most of the women on my mother’s side of the family, or me. Yes, they were often repentant later. They went to confession and tried to stay more calm the next time, but honestly, the endless lecture here is also “over the top”.
Some people just naturally have a calm personality and deal with things without getting riled. Some do not. We see this even in Scripture.
And the lesson I learned from my mom was NOT “it’s okay to lose your temper at people” but rather:
- My mother is human
- My mother is probably tired
- Moms get crazy sometimes when they feel their family is being messed with
- Don’t mess with my mom
- And maybe I myself will try to be a little less worked up about such things as an adult
- But I know my mom loves me, and stuck up for me, in the end, that’s what mattered.
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debgab
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Do you think she’s lost her confidence because of the way she saw you handle the situation? If you showed annoyance or aggravation, even though it wasn’t directed at her, she may have interpretated it as her fault, and that doing these types of “chores” in the future, might have a negative experience attached.
I agree with another’s suggestion to go in with her and stand 10ft away, it might help her confidence.
I’d like to add that you have a lot on your plate with your other children and to be careful with sending her certain places these days/ so much going on in public places.
Debbie
I agree with another’s suggestion to go in with her and stand 10ft away, it might help her confidence.
I’d like to add that you have a lot on your plate with your other children and to be careful with sending her certain places these days/ so much going on in public places.
Debbie
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PetraG
Guest
Gaslighting? I think you might mean victim-blaming?
You are trying to instill confidence in your child. I get that. I’m trying to convince you to convince your child that in your house mistakes are treated as mistakes, not as permanent character traits. You do that by saying “that was a foolish thing to do” and avoiding saying “that guy is an idiot who should never have been hired in the first place.”
Forget mercy. What you want to do is to convince your child that while the incident was upsetting, it is not something she can’t handle. It is the kind of mistake people make, and she can handle people who make that kind of mistakes. Some people, for whatever reason, don’t always use the manners it is fair to expect them to use. OK, we can deal with that. We can make up for it with mercy.
What you would be teaching her by that is that her mistakes will always be treated with mercy. You are teaching her that just as doing a foolish thing doesn’t make that man a fool, her current reluctance to jump back into doing things that a confident person would do doesn’t mean she isn’t a confident person. You teach her that holding back from things she used to feel comfortable doing is a totally normal reaction that any confident person might feel.
Do you see what I’m getting at?
If you are not harsh even with people who have earned some harshness from you, your children will trust that you will not be harsh with them even when they have earned some harshness from you. If you are proportional in your response to strangers who really mess up, they will know that you will be proportional in your response when they really mess up. If you don’t make a mistake into a reason to think less of a person, not even when it is a really bad mistake, your children will know that no mistake they make, no fault they are still working on and no other isolated incident is going to change what you think of them as persons.
Do you want your daughter to be confident? Then treat bad things that happen to her as one of those things that happen that we get past with mercy.
When our children fell down, we neither said, “You’re not hurt, don’t cry” and we also didn’t say “Oh that was such a fall! Come here, let us comfort you, oh that was so terrible!” We said, “Wow, that looks like it hurt. Are you OK?” Likewise, I think by making so much of this and making the guy who messed up into an idiot who should have never been hired, what you could be doing is giving your daughter the fear that if someone doesn’t treat her right, she is going to get them into trouble. That is not going to help her self-confidence. Let her live in a world where people make mistakes, and they’re corrected, and we hope they do better next time. That is a world where a child can feel safe in feeling self-confident.
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PetraG
Guest
I’m not trying to make this about Allegra. I’m trying to convince her that being merciful with someone who really messes up gives your children a very strong message about how you are going to react when they are the ones who have really spectacularly messed up. Self-confidence only comes when you see mistakes as something that is going to happen. People who get the idea that mistakes are actually negative statements about the person who makes the mistake as a person don’t develop self-confidence.
The way she reacted is the way she reacted. She needs to treat herself with mercy, too. The worst thing she could do is to beat herself up about the way she reacted. It was totally understandable. I hope the people at the library see it that way. The best thing for the child is if the guy behind the counter doesn’t act as if he thinks he’s going to lose his job if he doesn’t get it right next time. The best thing would be if he had the attitude that OK, mom when a bit ballistic, but people do that. It is understandable. I can see why I might try to get the guy fired if he wouldn’t talk with my daughter. I get it now; I don’t hold that against her.
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Allegra
Guest
Thanks. And I thought it was obvious that was a synopsis of the conversation for the purpose of brevity. I didn’t “go ballistic” or “name call”. The conversation with the supervisor was totally appropriate. He already knew he was working with a less-than-ideal employee.
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Allegra
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No. She was in the reading area when I talked to the person and the supervisor. The front desk of this library is in a glass atrium that was fully visible and maybe 40 feet away from where I was watching. I don’t let her go in places I can’t see her yet.
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PetraG
Guest
I chewed out the supervisor for letting such an idiot work there.
I’ve explained to her that the “mean guy” was the one with the problem.
The child knows that if an interaction with an adult doesn’t go right, the adult is going to get in trouble with her mom. Mom might even tell the person’s supervisor that the person should lose their job.
No pressure there.
But yes, I think I’ve made my point. I can say that I have two children who have been complimented on their poise, self-confidence and kindness all the way through school. I learned a lot from their teachers about how to instill confidence in children. One of those ways is to lay on the kindness towards everyone, even people who really blow it. Allow people to make mistakes and be gracious about it when they do. Then they’ll trust you. My sons are graduating from college soon. The way I’m suggesting does work. It isn’t the only way, but it does work.
Finis
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Allegra
Guest
Yes. That’s reality. When you are rude to people, they don’t have to be around you. When you are rude as a representation of your employer, they don’t have to have you work for them anymore. You aren’t entitled to be rude to anyone and no one is required to put up with it. This person didn’t lose their job because of one interaction and you know that. If this was the only thing this guy had done, he probably have been told that he isn’t allowed to do that and that would have been the end of it. My daughter didn’t hear any of the conversation because, as I already said, I sent her to sit in the children’s reading area with her brother, precisely because I didn’t know how this person was going to react and I didn’t want her to think that any of this was her fault. She isn’t aware that he was probably fired and I don’t think that knowing there are consequences when adult do ridiculous things is a bad lesson. She is not going to be “fired” from being my kid, but if she goes into a place and is rude to people, she will lose the privilege of running that errand. I’m sure there is a way to instill confidence other than trying to give them impression that there is no consequence for intentional rudeness. And yes, pretending an obviously intentionally disresepectful action is a “misunderstanding” is an example of gaslighting. Saying that it is a kid’s fault that someone was rude to them because (in your view, not the university’s) it isn’t a place kids belong is victim blaming. (Kind of like telling a black driver that they are obviously in the “wrong neighborhood”. )
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Cruciferi
Guest
When I was working at the pizza shop it wasn’t entirely uncommon for children to order and pay for the food.
In my opinion, the worst food orders came from children under the age of 10 without an adult present. Normally, they’d enter, approach the counter, look quizzically at the menu, and then regurgitate whatever they could remember.
At best, with a few questions, the order could be made promptly. At worst, I would have to wait as the child ran back outside several times to get additional details and/or money from their parent.
If a child made a phone order, I would usually ask for an adult to confirm the details if I suspected a prank or unauthorized transaction was taking place.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
I think you help her get her self-confidence back by teaching her to let it go. In the big scheme of things, what happened isn’t a huge deal. She crossed paths with someone who didn’t have the skills or interest in being in customer service. Happens every day. None of us like to see our kids upset or hurt or afraid. But it is a fact of life.
So I wouldn’t discuss it any more and I would encourage her to continue with her tasks and if she balks I would just say “That was the other day. Today is now. Time to try again.”
Sometimes, as parents, we do make things bigger and worse than what they really are. It is natural, so it takes some effort to not do that.
So I wouldn’t discuss it any more and I would encourage her to continue with her tasks and if she balks I would just say “That was the other day. Today is now. Time to try again.”
Sometimes, as parents, we do make things bigger and worse than what they really are. It is natural, so it takes some effort to not do that.
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Allegra
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Yeah, she’s not ready to make detailed pizza orders. We order the pizza on the phone and she goes in with the money and brings out the change and the pizza.
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Allegra
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Yeah. At first I thought the “praying for him” idea was good, but at this point it’s probably best not to bring it up again. That would have been a better idea at the time though. I’m planning on going to Trader Joe later this afternoon, so maybe she can help with that.
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