When people tell me that I should become a priest, is it wrong if I feel insulted?

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I’m not a priest, but am a religious; therefore, I’m celibate. I can say, from personal experience that the call to celibacy is not a call for those who are pure, but a call to pure love.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
*Dear Br Jr,

This has always confused me.

I have often wondered about this and maybe you can help me to understand it more clearly.

Can one have a call to pure love by being married?
 
*Dear Br Jr,

This has always confused me.

I have often wondered about this and maybe you can help me to understand it more clearly.

Can one have a call to pure love by being married?
Of course. Whe married people love each other without strings attached, without demands, without unreasonable expectations and when they show their love for each other sexually, they are the living proof of how much Christ loves his Church and how much the Church loves Christ. This is pure love.

The difference between a married person and a celibate person, whether he is a priest or a religoius is that the celibate person is not a sign of of how much God loves the Church, he is Christ loving the Church. The ordained man is Christ the high priest loving his people, forigiving his people, preaching to his people and sacrificing on the cross for his people.

The religious brother is Christ the first-born of many brothers sisters loving the Church. He is leading the Church to the his heavenly Father by being a brother to every member of the Church, just as Christ is a brother. The brother is the same Jesus Christ who cured the sick, fed the hungry, called the children to come to him, showed the Apostles where to fish, ate with prostitutes, and was the best brother the poor could have.

All of these are forms of pure love.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Of course. Whe married people love each other without strings attached, without demands, without unreasonable expectations and when they show their love for each other sexually, they are the living proof of how much Christ loves his Church and how much the Church loves Christ. This is pure love.

The difference between a married person and a celibate person, whether he is a priest or a religoius is that the celibate person is not a sign of of how much God loves the Church, he is Christ loving the Church. The ordained man is Christ the high priest loving his people, forigiving his people, preaching to his people and sacrificing on the cross for his people.

The religious brother is Christ the first-born of many brothers sisters loving the Church. He is leading the Church to the his heavenly Father by being a brother to every member of the Church, just as Christ is a brother. The brother is the same Jesus Christ who cured the sick, fed the hungry, called the children to come to him, showed the Apostles where to fish, ate with prostitutes, and was the best brother the poor could have.

All of these are forms of pure love.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
*Dear Br. Jr,

You talk about religious in a way that I have never heard. It is truly like music to to my ears to read what you say and I do so wish there were more of you around.

As to my question, I guess what I am trying to understand is, is it wrong for a married couple to want to follow the example of a religious brother and actually take part in helping to be Jesus Christ to the sick, the hungry and being a best friend that the poor could have ect…
I guess to put it simply, can a married couple actually take part in both forms of pure love? Or does it have to be a one or the other choice?
 
Now see, there’s the problem. You feel honored. Why is that? My assumption is you believe yourself spiritually, emotionally, and morally pious enough.
You can’t escape the call to holiness by choosing not to be a priest. You are called to be holy. If marriage is your vocation, then you’re called to be holy as a husband, and in any case you are called to holiness now.

I understand why you would be insulted if people are implying “you should be a priest because you won’t find a wife anyway.” But you should take it as a compliment if people suggest the priesthood in a sincere way; if it means they see something good in you, possibly something you’ve missed in yourself - your protests to the contrary notwithstanding. Even if they are totally wrong, if they are trying to be nice you shouldn’t let it bother you.

Meeting your wife is not going to solve all of your problems. If you do fall in love with some girl and expect her to be your savior rather than your helpmate, my guess is things are not going to go very well. And if you want to be able to be a good husband, you better devote yourself to a deep relationship with God just as much as you would if you were going to be a priest. Part of that means having a realistic understanding of God’s mercy and not being scrupulous and self-hating.
 
You can’t escape the call to holiness by choosing not to be a priest. You are called to be holy. If marriage is your vocation, then you’re called to be holy as a husband, and in any case you are called to holiness now.
I get what you’re saying but I still see a huge difference between being holy as a priest and as a husband and even as who I am now. The latter two are more free to express and act out their holiness even in an unorthodox way. For priests, there is always a standard (like the popular vows of chastity, poverty etc). Sadly those standards aren’t to my liking.

Still like I said, I won’t get angry at people. I’m not that sensitive any more. However, I will always be inclined to respond “Erm, I don’t think so. ;)
Meeting your wife is not going to solve all of your problems. If you do fall in love with some girl and expect her to be your savior rather than your helpmate, my guess is things are not going to go very well. And if you want to be able to be a good husband, you better devote yourself to a deep relationship with God just as much as you would if you were going to be a priest. Part of that means having a realistic understanding of God’s mercy and not being scrupulous and self-hating.
Don’t worry, it’s really the latter. However, finding that girl can be a miracle in of itself for me.

I can believe in myself to a slight extent but just not for too long. However, I’m not scrupulous (far from it) and it’s not my sins that cause me to hate myself.

It’s my mistakes and unwanted character flaws. My really embarrassing, wish-it-never-happened bungles and my equally humiliating traits that I go as far to project on a different personality in my head. X(
 
I’m not a priest, but am a religious; therefore, I’m celibate. I can say, from personal experience that the call to celibacy is not a call for those who are pure, but a call to pure love.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
That is an awesome description of celibacy. Thank you Brother for sharing your genius with us.

PAX CHRISTI

-Matt
 
I believe I have done similar things (at least once a year since my school requires it). Each time though, I’m only reminded of how my road is different from such spiritually tuned religious folks like you.

I’m not a spiritual person nor devout. I know my dark mind well enough to say I am not cut out for that kind of life. I see things and know things that would make any striving celibacy candidate squirm… and all without asking for such knowledge. I just… have a knack for seeing things differently from the purity crowd and something tells me there must be a good reason. However, so long as I possess such shadowy thoughts, the standards of spiritual cleanliness demanded by a religious vocations will never be met by people like me.
My friend, the mistake we tend to make as humans is we put boundaries on God. I understand you think you are too far gone or not good enough or are to corrupt to ever be called to religious life. Over the course of history God has proven that it is people like you and I(thinking there is know way we would ever be called to religious vocation), that God takes. Look at St. Augustine and St. Paul for examples. These men could not get any farther away. Obviously, you are not nearly a Paul or Augustine before their conversion because you still take part in our faith. I am not saying that you are called to the priesthood or any religious life. Please do not take it that way. I’m just saying have a little more faith, man!
Let me just ask something. It’s true that God makes the unworthy worthy but in your case just how opposite are you from the person you were before?

I always notice this pattern of change God invokes into someone he calls to a vocation. It’s almost always a total personality reversal. Take St. Ignatius of Loyola (I’m a student of the Jesuits you see), from a proud soldier to a humble servant of Christ.

Don’t get me wrong but I’m not fond of that idea. There are some things about me that I’m willing to give up (like the inner perv that everyone deals with -.-;; ) because those things are definitely sinful. However, my so-called “true personality” is still far from something you’d expect of a priest.
I am pretty much the exact opposite from what I used to be. I go from playing in a hard rock, AC/DC type music band, into a Catholic worship leader at teen events. I would have laughed at you if you told me this would be me a couple years ago. I used to despise all of the praise and worship for some unknown reason. I used to think everyone was just “overdoing” it. Now I’ll be the first one to throw my hands in the air, tears streaming from my face. & you know what? I have never been happier my whole entire life. Not even close.

St. Ignatius is awesome. Are you afraid of this kind of change? We are all called to be saints. Let’s not cheat ourselves out of the most exciting life possible.

As always, you’re in my prayers,

-Matt
 
I am pretty much the exact opposite from what I used to be. I go from playing in a hard rock, AC/DC type music band, into a Catholic worship leader at teen events. I would have laughed at you if you told me this would be me a couple years ago. I used to despise all of the praise and worship for some unknown reason. I used to think everyone was just “overdoing” it. Now I’ll be the first one to throw my hands in the air, tears streaming from my face. & you know what? I have never been happier my whole entire life. Not even close.

St. Ignatius is awesome. Are you afraid of this kind of change? We are all called to be saints. Let’s not cheat ourselves out of the most exciting life possible.
Eh, see. That’s exactly my point. I’m not afraid. I just don’t like being turned to something I am not.

Here’s the thing, as much as I hate myself it’s only because of one tiny but oh so annoyingly persistent aspect about myself that keeps messing up my life; an aspect I believe I’m better off without.

The rest though, I’m actually quite proud! I like being competitive. I like coming off as bad. I even like being cynical. And even without the sexual sins that plague me (like every other guy my age :rolleyes:), my fantasies would still be dark without them! (They may not be sinful anymore but definitely not something you’d expect a traditional priest to come up with. Think Michael Bay + Tetsuya Nomura + Shounen Jump :cool:)
 
Eh, see. That’s exactly my point. I’m not afraid. I just don’t like being turned to something I am not.
How is someone saying that they think you would make a good priest turning you into something you are not? I just don’t get that.

Do you feel insulted with every compliment you are given?
 
I don’t understand… You said you study our faith and are devoted to learning more, but you don’t want to submit to Jesus and live the life He has picked out for you?

If you’re as dark as you are portraying yourself to be, why would people ask you if you are going to be a priest?
 
How is someone saying that they think you would make a good priest turning you into something you are not? I just don’t get that.

Do you feel insulted with every compliment you are given?
Not really. Just compliments I know that don’t suit me.

I find that the priest’s standards of a pacifistic mind and a higher level of chastity are not to my taste. (Although frankly, it’s more of the former than the latter).

If you were to compliment me on my vivid writing style, dynamic fight scenes, and even my intermediate gaming skills, I’d go as far as to say “Thanks. I know. :cool:”.
I don’t understand… You said you study our faith and are devoted to learning more, but you don’t want to submit to Jesus and live the life He has picked out for you?
Morals and political stances, I totally side on. However, I don’t see why I have to devote my time to novenas, liturgies, and whatnot just to agree with God’s law. Such things aren’t even wholly necessary (unless you wanna prove the Protestants right).

I know a lot of people who aren’t religious like me but are willing to side for what is ultimately right. Still, that don’t mean we’re saints (or desire to be).
If you’re as dark as you are portraying yourself to be, why would people ask you if you are going to be a priest?
Like I said, either people don’t know me well enough (which happens to me more often than not) or are just desperate to have more priests and nuns that they target every single person they set their sights on (a situation I hope will never happen to me).
 
Not really. Just compliments I know that don’t suit me.

I find that the priest’s standards of a pacifistic mind and a higher level of chastity are not to my taste. (Although frankly, it’s more of the former than the latter).

If you were to compliment me on my vivid writing style, dynamic fight scenes, and even my intermediate gaming skills, I’d go as far as to say “Thanks. I know. :cool:”.
So you feel that a compliment that you do not attribute to yourself is an insult? Seems a bit off to me.

Can you explain what you mean by “the priest’s standards of a pacifistic mind”?
 
So you feel that a compliment that you do not attribute to yourself is an insult? Seems a bit off to me.
What can I say? I’m pretty individualistic. I’m not fond of things I don’t like being attributed to me.
Can you explain what you mean by “the priest’s standards of a pacifistic mind”?
Let’s see if I can make this simple:

Can you seriously imagine a priest getting a kick out of beating someone else up in a fighting game (or any game for that matter)? How about a priest who enjoys movies full of explosions and robots blasting and bashing each other to twisted pieces of scrap metal? :rolleyes:
 
What can I say? I’m pretty individualistic. I’m not fond of things I don’t like being attributed to me.
You don’t sound individualistic. You sound controlling. I don’t know if you meant to word it this way. But if I look at this statement, it says to me that when people think something about you that you don’t want them to think, even if they mean it as a compliment, it upsets you, as if you had some control over what others say or think. You may have to move past that. In life people say many things to us about us. Sometimes they are unfair and offensive and intended to be so. In that case we have the right to request that they stop. Other times people say things to us about us without any intention of hurting us. In that case, we have to blow it off and move along.
Can you seriously imagine a priest getting a kick out of beating someone else up in a fighting game (or any game for that matter)? How about a priest who enjoys movies full of explosions and robots blasting and bashing each other to twisted pieces of scrap metal? :rolleyes:
Yes. There are many priests and brothers who enjoy boxing or wrestling. As you say, it’s a game or better said, it’s a sport. It’s not a fight Would priests and brothers enjoy action movies with robots and explosions etc? Of course. They are like everyone else. Some do enjoy a good action or sci-fi movie. A movie that I enjoyed very much was Transformers. The reason that I liked it was that it was so silly and out of the ordinary. When you deal with the pains of everyday life, a good fantasy offers a good rest.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Other times people say things to us about us without any intention of hurting us. In that case, we have to blow it off and move along.
I know. I don’t see a difference though between blowing it off and gently correcting them that they got something wrong about me. Like I said, I don’t get angry when people are sincere or at least don’t mean to offend with their suggestion.
Yes. There are many priests and brothers who enjoy boxing or wrestling. As you say, it’s a game or better said, it’s a sport. It’s not a fight Would priests and brothers enjoy action movies with robots and explosions etc? Of course. They are like everyone else. Some do enjoy a good action or sci-fi movie. A movie that I enjoyed very much was Transformers. The reason that I liked it was that it was so silly and out of the ordinary. When you deal with the pains of everyday life, a good fantasy offers a good rest.
That’s not the impression I’ve been getting. I’ve seen Trads condemning a priest just for holding an electric guitar. For them, it just doesn’t suit the image of a priest to be contemporary. >_>;;
 
What can I say? I’m pretty individualistic. I’m not fond of things I don’t like being attributed to me.
Still seems pretty odd to me and something I would counsel you to talk to someone about.
Let’s see if I can make this simple:
Can you seriously imagine a priest getting a kick out of beating someone else up in a fighting game (or any game for that matter)? How about a priest who enjoys movies full of explosions and robots blasting and bashing each other to twisted pieces of scrap metal? :rolleyes:
Hmmm, well I am a religious brother working towards the priesthood and I do. I collect RPGs, have played D&D and would love to get into a game now, I also have what some might consider pretty violent games on my PC. I love those movies and know of many priests who like them and watch them with me.

So yes I can “seriously imagine” that.

You view of what being a priest is seems to be a naive.
 
Hmmm, well I am a religious brother working towards the priesthood and I do. I collect RPGs, have played D&D and would love to get into a game now, I also have what some might consider pretty violent games on my PC. I love those movies and know of many priests who like them and watch them with me.

So yes I can “seriously imagine” that.

You view of what being a priest is seems to be a naive.
You sure? :ehh: I’ve seen a fair few people here say that mixing a priest with anything contemporary makes him a potentially heretical modernist. :rolleyes:
 
Look at St. Augustine and St. Paul for examples. These men could not get any farther away.

I agree, check out either Saint! Saint Augustine wrote in his book “Confessions” questioning simulated drama: Wasting emotion on simulation. There is enough real sorrow, real love, real pain. And, Saint Paul straightens out the person who is slipping and sliding down in their morality, sexual morality. It is a slippery, slidy road you know! I’ve just read a good article in America, the Catholic weekly, a Dec/Jan issue about the Bible and our active Faith. Faith has to get beyond the intellectual search for it. So there! Now you have someone challenging you, rather than giving you carte blanche! Maybe these people, who have a sincere desire to have young people consider the religious life, have a respect for your parents, and, so they honor them, either their memory, or what they know of your parents, by encouraging you. I suggested that you were cognizant of your abnormal choices, and made up for that by some piety in a public place. And, I thought that you should not use the fear of a possible vocation, to make you reject some basic values in order to deal with your present attitude about the praise. Noone knows how God forms us, but, we know what we can see: one’s family, the cultural milieu/environment, the choices that are made (public docket vs. volunteer of the month, Sunday Mass attendance vs. everyday attendance, care and consideration for others vs. selfishness, attentiveness vs. carelessness in our duties, love for our family vs. estrangement … etc.); the rest of our formation is through the Holy Spirit. I can understand why the posters are saying that one’s interests/hobbies seem of little importance. Personally, I believe that a prayerful Priest is a Priest. I know they need time off, though, and have someone in place for that time when they are away on sabbatical. I’ll admit to watching war movies, sometimes not being able to watch certain violence that is perhaps just suggested. Dad calls it use of ketchup. One needs to be aware of how violent images fill the mind and prevent a prayer life. And, as St. Augustine inferred, why are we enjoying it? Artistic talent, if that is what you have, or writing talent … one must use it to make life better, to honor God … and it is His gift to you because He loves each one of us and He doesn’t want you to hurt us. Think about how we are all related. Without even thinking about Adam and Eve, you may be attending a Church, or living in a communitys, just as Jesus did, with relatives as close as first cousins, as far as fifth. I know, for I did my Family Tree, without changing my religion to Mormonism. It is a hobby that using up chunks of time, and doesn’t amount to much it people’s eyes, but, for some reason I do it. I know that nuns have done their family trees, too. Hope this helps. Hope you aren’t using us for a story of yours! Or maybe, it would be okay … not sure.
 
You sure? :ehh: I’ve seen a fair few people here say that mixing a priest with anything contemporary makes him a potentially heretical modernist. :rolleyes:
Really? Our societies must be completely different. I personally know quite a few priests who enjoy getting out to the golf course, surfing, boxing and playing electric guitar. I don’t know if you have ever heard of Father Hugh O’Flaherty. This man lived at the Vatican during the holocaust and personally saved 4000 Jews. He was known around the Vatican for his boxing habits. He is now being considered for sainthood and converted a nazi that was in charge of killing all of the Jews in Rome.

I have a feeling you perception of priests is not for who they really are. They are most certainly not robots, but for some reason people like to view them as such.

God Bless, my friend.
 
You sure? :ehh: I’ve seen a fair few people here say that mixing a priest with anything contemporary makes him a potentially heretical modernist. :rolleyes:
Some may think that but it is not the truth.

Some orders and seminaries may wish to mold a candidate into a mold but most are not like that.

My order and province, the Most Pure Heart of Mary (Chicago) province of the Order of Carmelites honors us for who we are. As long as what you are doing do not go against church teaches or are sinful, it is ok.

Again, your understanding of the priesthood (and most likely religious life) is very naive.
 
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