When should children be permitted to decide if they want to go to Mass anymore

[PaulGH]

My opinion is that when children become adults and move out of the parents’ house, that is the point when they can decide for themselves whether or not to go to Mass. As long as the children are living under your roof, I think that you as a Catholic parent should require them to go to Mass on Sundays (unless of course there is a serious reason, such as illness), as well as do other things to raise them in the Catholic faith (e.g., see that they receive the sacraments as appropriate, make sure that they are instructed in the faith, pray together as a family, let them know that God loves them, and just generally try to guide them on the path toward being disciples of Jesus).

However, your situation is complicated by the fact that your wife is not Catholic, and possibly does not cooperate in enforcing that the children must attend Mass. So you have to consider the good of your marriage as well as the good of the children, and I’m not sure exactly the best way to work that out with your wife. You may need to compromise with your wife on this point for the good of your marriage, but obviously the ideal would be for you still to do whatever you reasonably can to raise your children in the Catholic faith.

I wish you the best, and I will say a prayer for your family.

 

[DarkLight]

Without hijacking the thread:

My point was that I tend to think cases should be decided on their own - I doubt there’s one rule you can set. My experiences were with parents attempting to force something directly against my own conscience, and the damage it did. In this case, though, it doesn’t sound like that’s the issue. The 16 year old seems to be fine with going - a bit more in-depth stuff might be good to get involved. The two 9 year olds - I assume they just don’t want to get up and sit there? Would definitely still insist, though it might be worth looking into things that could make church more interesting to them. I know some parishes are definitely better about children than others.

 

[MarkInOregon]

Hi,

I am the father of three daughters living at home, and two, not interested in Catholicism step daughters living out of home in defacto relationships. I reverted to Catholicism some years ago, but my wife did not.

Of the three daughters at home, two are 9 and one is 16. I have been bringing these girls to mass with me most weeks. My wife in no way supports my decision to take my kids to mass, so whenever they kick up a stink, she sides with them.

My 16 year old, who is a beautiful girl who has never complained about going to mass, I am pretty sure only goes to please me. She is quite mature, and I certainly fear losing her to the “world”, but, she will do as she will by her own choice at some point and I have to lump it.

Should I allow her to decide if she wants to attend mass with me anymore? Is there an argument to be made that the choice is better freely made, than made out of some misplaced rebellion just down the track.

What are people’s thoughts?

Please note, my twin girls are much harder to get to mass, and I don’t how much of a battle I should have over this, especially if it threatens our marriage, or ends in argument.

Any thoughts on this as well?

Also note, I pray for them all, including my wife, but I really don’t expect my wife to start going to mass.

Thanks.

My thought is 18/graduate from high school–even if they are living in your home. That’s how I have approached it and it seemed to work well. After high school they are for all practical purposes an adult and should have the freedom to make their own decisions.

Peace,
Mark

 

[Demetra2]

Be very careful here because as a father it is your DUTY to get them to church and pass on your faith. It does not matter at all if they want to go. Kids and teenagers often want to avoid many things that are good for them. Frankly, as a parent there is nothing more precious that you can give your kids than a faith in God and a good understanding of the beauty of their Catholic faith. Don’t give in to the temptation to take the easy and lazy route of letting the kids decide for themselves. They are only kids but you are a mature adult and their father. They need you for this guidance and God expects you to do this. Research what St. Padre Pio thinks of parents who might avoid this duty. Your wife is not cooperating and is actually being sinful in trying to deny her own kids a religious heritage. You must override this and stand strong and bring your loved ones to church. It might help if you get some Catholic educational materials, Catholic movies, watch EWTN and say the rosary everyday with the kids and have them attend Catholic youth activities at church. Pray for strength and wisdom. I know one family who told their kids that they could stop attending church and they now severely regret it as their adult kids have rejected church all together and the grandkids are not even baptized. Very sad unintended consequence for the grandparents.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Hi,

I am the father of three daughters living at home, and two, not interested in Catholicism step daughters living out of home in defacto relationships. I reverted to Catholicism some years ago, but my wife did not.

Of the three daughters at home, two are 9 and one is 16. I have been bringing these girls to mass with me most weeks. My wife in no way supports my decision to take my kids to mass, so whenever they kick up a stink, she sides with them.

**My 16 year old, who is a beautiful girl who has never complained about going to mass, I am pretty sure only goes to please me. She is quite mature, and I certainly fear losing her to the “world”, but, she will do as she will by her own choice at some point and I have to lump it. **

Should I allow her to decide if she wants to attend mass with me anymore? Is there an argument to be made that the choice is better freely made, than made out of some misplaced rebellion just down the track.

What are people’s thoughts?

Please note, my twin girls are much harder to get to mass, and I don’t how much of a battle I should have over this, especially if it threatens our marriage, or ends in argument.

Any thoughts on this as well?

Also note, I pray for them all, including my wife, but I really don’t expect my wife to start going to mass.

Thanks.

My thought is that you are borrowing trouble. Your 16 year old has never balked at going to Mass? Then don’t bring up the subject of NOT going. In fact, praise her for going when there are factors that might argue against it, like her mother. Don’t encourage her to question whether or not she should go, of course she should go! She’s obligated!

Also, are all 3 baptized Catholics who have had their sacraments? If so, all 3 are obligated to attend Mass every week, and they should all understand that there are serious consequences if they don’t. Not from you, but from God.

I am sorry for your situation. I will add you and your wife to my prayers. I know how frustrating it can be to live unequally yoked.

 

[EasterJoy]

My thought is 18/graduate from high school–even if they are living in your home. That’s how I have approached it and it seemed to work well. After high school they are for all practical purposes an adult and should have the freedom to make their own decisions.

Peace,
Mark

One of my relatives would not allow her children to wear jeans to Mass until they were 18. (Not attending Mass was not even discussed. They may as well have told her they were going to quit brushing their teeth and seeing the dentist…absurd!)

She said that as soon as they turned 18, they all made it a point to go to Mass in jeans several times, but then they went back to wearing something nicer. It just felt right to them. The same thing very often goes for making your bed every day, cleaning the kitchen as you go, and many other good habits. It is a big mistake to think that our children will throw off every rule they didn’t like during childhood, or that having rules for teens is always a mistake that will drive them away from good habits. I think the reverse is more often true, to be honest, provided enforcing the rules isn’t made into a power struggle.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

One of my relatives would not allow her children to wear jeans to Mass until they were 18. (Not attending Mass was not even discussed. They may as well have told her they were going to quit brushing their teeth and seeing the dentist…absurd!)

She said that as soon as they turned 18, they all made it a point to go to Mass in jeans several times, but then they went back to wearing something nicer. It just felt right to them. The same thing very often goes for making your bed every day, cleaning the kitchen as you go, and many other good habits. It is a big mistake to think that our children will throw off every rule they didn’t like during childhood, or that having rules for teens is always a mistake that will drive them away from good habits. I think the reverse is more often true, to be honest, provided enforcing the rules isn’t made into a power struggle.

 

[paxomatic]

The children’s religious uprbringing I think is the unanswered question here and will somewhat modify the approaches we give.

They are baptised Catholic. But, I think what is the point that is being missed by everyone, or at least barely touched on, is, for me, the critical point. My wife and I have nearly separated due to religious reasons. She will just say “It’s not working out”, or “I plan to introduce the kids to the contraceptive pill and condoms”, and whatever else she thinks is good. When I push issues, no matter how calmly or assertively or even angrily, if she thinks I’m stupid or weak, or easily led, etc etc etc, she will say so.

So what I am saying, I suppose is also, should I push the kids attendance at mass, even if it means my marriage breakdown.

I love my wife, but make no mistake, it’s her way or the highway. The kids go to mass only so long as she tolerates it.

 

[PaulGH]

They are baptised Catholic. But, I think what is the point that is being missed by everyone, or at least barely touched on, is, for me, the critical point. My wife and I have nearly separated due to religious reasons. She will just say “It’s not working out”, or “I plan to introduce the kids to the contraceptive pill and condoms”, and whatever else she thinks is good. When I push issues, no matter how calmly or assertively or even angrily, if she thinks I’m stupid or weak, or easily led, etc etc etc, she will say so.

So what I am saying, I suppose is also, should I push the kids attendance at mass, even if it means my marriage breakdown.

I love my wife, but make no mistake, it’s her way or the highway. The kids go to mass only so long as she tolerates it.

I think you have to do as much as you can to raise your kids in the Catholic faith, but you also have to love and respect your wife, and keep your marriage healthy. But it sounds like your wife is making it very difficult for you to do both. I don’t know what to say other than do your best. Try to find ways to make some compromises with your wife. It might even be a good idea to go to marriage counseling, if you can find a counselor who is acceptable to both of you. (And I think that a counselor would need to take seriously your obligations to raise your children Catholic, in order for that counselor to be acceptable to you.)

Finally, don’t blame yourself when you do your best, and you find that you still can’t do a perfect job of raising your kids in the Catholic faith. Unfortunately, that’s the way it probably has to be, given your situation.

 

[PaulGH]

Also, you mentioned that the children were baptized Catholic. That means that you and your wife made a promise to raise them in the Catholic faith, right? You probably can’t reasonably expect your wife to be completely on board with that promise now, given what you have said about her attitude. But perhaps you could give her a gentle reminder that both of you did make that promise. Mention that you are not asking her to continue with her part of the promise, but that you personally take that promise very seriously. Gently ask if she could just simply give you the room to do your part of keeping that promise (which would include taking the kids to Mass, and also seeing that they are instructed in the faith – either at a Catholic school, or at a parish religious education class, or at home). I don’t know if that will work, but maybe it is worth a try. But pick the right moment to talk to her, and approach the topic gently and non-judgmentally. That is my advice.

 

[EasterJoy]

Without hijacking the thread:

My point was that I tend to think cases should be decided on their own - I doubt there’s one rule you can set. My experiences were with parents attempting to force something directly against my own conscience, and the damage it did…

I would say that a parent cannot insist that their children believe this or that. You can say, “It is my duty to make sure you are there and to do my best to help you receive it properly”. You can’t say “You will take this or that to heart as the truth” as if that were something you can enforce. This is why the decision in favor of baptism belongs to the child as soon as the child reaches the age of reason. So yes, at some point, the adult child would be saying, “Mom, Dad: I am only going because you insist. I don’t believe it, I cannot receive Holy Communion because I don’t believe it, and I feel as if the effect is exactly the opposite of what you are hoping it will be. I cannot wait for the day when I don’t have to go any more.”

At that point, the parents with the right to make the house rules can examine their rules with the realization that they do not have a duty to force every person living under their roof attend Mass every Sunday and Holy Day. It is their right, it’s not an onerous expectation on someone who is letting you support them materially, but at some point it ceases to be a duty. At some point, “pastoral” considerations can take over and the parents can relent without violating any moral law, provided that they do not neglectfully leave anyone in their care with no way to choose to fulfill their religious duties. Still, it is their household, and it is their call. They have to follow their own consciences, too, that’s the thing.

 

[DarkLight]

I would say that a parent cannot insist that their children believe this or that. You can say, “It is my duty to make sure you are there and to do my best to help you receive it properly”. You can’t say “You will take this or that to heart as the truth” as if that were something you can enforce. This is why the decision in favor of baptism belongs to the child as soon as the child reaches the age of reason. So yes, at some point, the adult child would be saying, “Mom, Dad: I am only going because you insist. I don’t believe it, I cannot receive Holy Communion because I don’t believe it, and I feel as if the effect is exactly the opposite of what you are hoping it will be. I cannot wait for the day when I don’t have to go any more.”

At that point, the parents with the right to make the house rules can examine their rules with the realization that they do not have a duty to force every person living under their roof attend Mass every Sunday and Holy Day. It is their right, it’s not an onerous expectation on someone who is letting you support them materially, but at some point it ceases to be a duty. At some point, “pastoral” considerations can take over and the parents can relent without violating any moral law, provided that they do not neglectfully leave anyone in their care with no way to choose to fulfill their religious duties. Still, it is their household, and it is their call. They have to follow their own consciences, too, that’s the thing.

Yeah - my situation was just a mess. No job, no real way to get a job, and really nowhere else to go if my parents cut me off. I didn’t know anyone outside of our little religious community. That’s why it gets messy with adults. On one hand, there is the point that you have to respect them and they are providing. On the other hand, it seems wrong that religious freedom should depend on circumstantial issues - if it’s ok to throw out religious freedom because someone can’t take care of themselves, is it really something we believe in? In my case I actively believed that I was committing a sin by going to their church - that’s not the language I would have used, but it was the idea. I’ve seen the same issue with adult friends, typically when their religious services are scheduled at the same time as the one the parents’ go to, so that they couldn’t go to their own services.

With my family it was a definite “you may not go to Mass while under our roof.” I snuck out - maybe not the best option, but what else was there to do?

 

[EasterJoy]

Yeah - my situation was just a mess. No job, no real way to get a job, and really nowhere else to go if my parents cut me off. I didn’t know anyone outside of our little religious community. That’s why it gets messy with adults. On one hand, there is the point that you have to respect them and they are providing. On the other hand, it seems wrong that religious freedom should depend on circumstantial issues - if it’s ok to throw out religious freedom because someone can’t take care of themselves, is it really something we believe in? In my case I actively believed that I was committing a sin by going to their church - that’s not the language I would have used, but it was the idea. I’ve seen the same issue with adult friends, typically when their religious services are scheduled at the same time as the one the parents’ go to, so that they couldn’t go to their own services.

With my family it was a definite “you may not go to Mass while under our roof.” I snuck out - maybe not the best option, but what else was there to do?

This is a different situation than a Catholic family, since there are typically other Masses that the adult Catholic child can go to without being in conflict with anything else. Not always, but if you’re not in a very rural area, there is usually at least both Sunday morning and Saturday night available (for the sake of Catholics who have Sunday morning jobs). Requiring that the adults in your house do this or that or forbidding certain activities under one’s own roof is a little different, after all, than forbidding them to do things while they are out and about for the rest of their week. That’s not to say that some people don’t go that far, but that is beyond what most people I know would think they could demand when someone is accepting their full hospitality. Also, in the vast majority of cases, the children do not want to leave the Church in favor of a different church. They just want to quit the business of regular Sunday worship. They want to go only when they are so inclined, which might be close to never.

There are many Catholics in the world who live under regimes where they must practice their faith in secret, because of persecution, such as in Saudi Arabia, where the practice of the Catholic faith is barred. There really isn’t anything else to do, in that case, other than what you did. Just like Catholics in those countries, a Catholic or would-be Catholic in your position does not have an obligation to do what you could not do, though. You can only do your best; morality never requires you to achieve the impossible.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

They are baptised Catholic. But, I think what is the point that is being missed by everyone, or at least barely touched on, is, for me, the critical point. My wife and I have nearly separated due to religious reasons. She will just say “It’s not working out”, or “I plan to introduce the kids to the contraceptive pill and condoms”, and whatever else she thinks is good. When I push issues, no matter how calmly or assertively or even angrily, if she thinks I’m stupid or weak, or easily led, etc etc etc, she will say so.

**So what I am saying, I suppose is also, should I push the kids attendance at mass, even if it means my marriage breakdown.
**
I love my wife, but make no mistake, it’s her way or the highway. The kids go to mass only so long as she tolerates it.

There isn’t a good answer. If you separate and/or divorce, will she get custody? She will then have total access to the girls with no (name removed by moderator)ut from you. If you stay, she continues to undermine the faith you have tried to establish. Will she consider marriage counseling? It is disrespectful to you to act the way she is. Whether or not she supports the Church, she should respect and love YOU enough to allow you to do what needs to be done for her childrens’ betterment. Does she think anything you are doing is HARMING the girls? Or improving their chances at a happy and joyful life?

If you could get full custody, I might say go ahead and push and let the chips fall where they may, but these days, most judges won’t keep a mother away from her children, so…

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Hi,

I am the father of three daughters living at home, and two, not interested in Catholicism step daughters living out of home in defacto relationships. I reverted to Catholicism some years ago, but my wife did not.

Of the three daughters at home, two are 9 and one is 16. I have been bringing these girls to mass with me most weeks. My wife in no way supports my decision to take my kids to mass, so whenever they kick up a stink, she sides with them.

My 16 year old, who is a beautiful girl who has never complained about going to mass, I am pretty sure only goes to please me. She is quite mature, and I certainly fear losing her to the “world”, but, she will do as she will by her own choice at some point and I have to lump it.

Should I allow her to decide if she wants to attend mass with me anymore? Is there an argument to be made that the choice is better freely made, than made out of some misplaced rebellion just down the track.

What are people’s thoughts?

Please note, my twin girls are much harder to get to mass, and I don’t how much of a battle I should have over this, especially if it threatens our marriage, or ends in argument.

Any thoughts on this as well?

Also note, I pray for them all, including my wife, but I really don’t expect my wife to start going to mass.

Thanks.

Quite simply… Once she moves out and pays her own bills.

 

[tillerna]

My Dad also told me, “You do not belong to me. You are on loan to me from your true Father, God.” and that it is his job to make sure I return to Him.

As a father of two young kids who will be attending Mass for the first time this Easter Sunday (my family is in the very early stages of conversion), this entire thread strikes a chord with me, but that quote especially is amazingly poignant. Sounds like you had a great dad!