When soldiers become killers

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MugenOne

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On March 12, 2006, Private First Class Steven Dale Green, along with three other American soldiers, entered the home of 14-year-old Abeer Qasim Hamzah Al Janabi in a village near Yusufiyah in Iraq, shot her family, raped Abeer in turns before shooting her and then set her body on fire.
The story of Abeer and her family’s brutal murder and the kind of dysfunctional backdrop that led Green and his four comrades to commit one of the most heinous crimes in the history of the Iraq war forms the core of Black Hearts: One Platoon’s Descent into Madness in Iraq’s Triangle of Death by Jim Frederick, the newly appointed managing editor of Time.com and an executive editor of Time magazine.
The gripping narrative, however, reveals a deeper malady of modern warfare and sounds a timely warning about military leadership at a time when the US is exploring ways to extricate itself from two game-changing battles.

gulfnews.com/news/region/iraq/when-soldiers-become-killers-1.663394

As the result of their heinous crime, these four idiots caused the death of two innocent American soliders. Soon after the news of little girl’s rape and murder got out, her tribal sheikh went on a vengeance against the Americans. Her tribalmen ambushed a patrol. Captured two soldiers. Tortured them, cut them into pieces while they were still alive. Finally, they were beheaded.
 
Even if the story is true (and I disbelieve just about anything reported by the so-called ‘media’)----what is your point?
 
Actually I think it’s true. There was one case of murder/rape in Iraq during the entire time we’ve been in that country and this might be the one.

Not to excuse the crime, but I’d like anyone to compare our one murder/rape in 7 or 8 years to the record of any other occupying army in the history of warfare in any war ever fought.
 
The title is wrong, it should read:

When killers become soldiers.

Putting on a uniform does not make one a hero or change a man from bad to good. There are some very bad soldiers out there.

This war is no different than any war. Only the weapons change.
 
This is a kind of mess is that Civil Affairs Officers like myself have to come in and clean up by offering the victims compensations and other stuff.

Talking about Civil Affairs operations, we possibly confuse the heck out of the local Iraqis. At night, we terrorized them. During daylight, we would want to make peace.
Sailor_Kenshin said:
Even if the story is true (and I disbelieve just about anything reported by the so-called ‘media’)----what is your point?
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MugenOne said:
Talking about Civil Affairs operations, we possibly confuse the heck out of the local Iraqis. At night, we terrorized them. During daylight, we would want to make peace.
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As opposed to being terrorized 24/7?
 
The article is just a pathetic attempt to portray those monstrous killers as victims. They spent days planning their crime before boozing up and savagely attacking that family.
 
NotCrazyDan said:
Actually I think it’s true. There was one case of murder/rape in Iraq during the entire time we’ve been in that country and this might be the one.

Not to excuse the crime, but I’d like anyone to compare our one murder/rape in 7 or 8 years to the record of any other occupying army in the history of warfare in any war ever fought.
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Incorrect. There have been numerous cases of rape most notably at Abu Ghraib with mountains of graphic photos and videos taken during the course of these heinous crimes as proof. Of course, these are the only ones, aside from the crime which is the subject of this thread, that the public knows about.
 
So is the purpose of this post just to condemn the American military?
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Incorrect. There have been numerous cases of rape most notably at Abu Ghraib with mountains of graphic photos and videos taken during the course of these heinous crimes as proof. Of course, these are the only ones, aside from the crime which is the subject of this thread, that the public knows about.
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I’m guessing that you can’t supply proof of your assertion then?
 
:rolleyes:

C’mon. The women of Iraq are safer with the American guys than with their own.
 
iamrefreshed said:
The title is wrong, it should read:

When killers become soldiers.

Putting on a uniform does not make one a hero or change a man from bad to good. There are some very bad soldiers out there.

This war is no different than any war. Only the weapons change.
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Good point,

War can bring out the worst in people but the majority of our soliers are good people doing good work. Folks making sacrifices which make our life over here possible.

This reminds me that I need to spend more time praying for them.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Incorrect. There have been numerous cases of rape most notably at Abu Ghraib with mountains of graphic photos and videos taken during the course of these heinous crimes as proof. Of course, these are the only ones, aside from the crime which is the subject of this thread, that the public knows about.
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The accusations of rape that I know of at Abu Ghraib were towards Iraqi guards, not American guards.

As a general rule, the US prosecutes those who rape. It is against our military laws. Saddam use to reward his soldiers who raped Shiites.
 
NotCrazyDan said:
I’m guessing that you can’t supply proof of your assertion then?
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The CID has a few reports on a wide variety of heinous abuses committed by American troops with thousands of photos and videos as proof just from Abu Ghraib. Rape is among them. One such report can be found here. Army Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, now retired, has also since reported in the media that these photos and videos include rape. Senator Lindsey Graham has also publicly stated this. Many of these photos, subsequently obtained by various sources, are public.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
The CID has a few reports on a wide variety of heinous abuses committed by American troops with thousands of photos and videos as proof just from Abu Ghraib. Rape is among them. One such report can be found here. Army Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, now retired, has also since reported in the media that these photos and videos include rape. Senator Lindsey Graham has also publicly stated this. Many of these photos, subsequently obtained by various sources, are public.
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I wrote a lengthy response disproving your assertion that this report showed that US troops raped anyone, complete with quotes, and then looked up a the top at the security classification and deleted everything I said.

Nevertheless, do a search on it with the keyword ‘rape’.

You can’t even find one instance to back you up when you’re looking at the worst case of organized misconduct we’ve had the entire war?

I would kindly ask the mods to delete links, and to make it against forum rules to post a link, to an item on the web that’s classified.
 
The US military as a whole is one of the most gallant, humane and effective forces in the entire world. You cannot have an occupation of a civilian center without some kind of tragedy, but I would put the USA’s “tragedy quotient” in any given operation up against anybody else’s comparable operation.

It is too bad that such criminal men made it into the military and decided of their own free will to do such grave evil. We should especially pray for the Iraqi victims of this senseless and grotesque crime. But it doesn’t change the overall assessment of our military in terms of its general valor, excellence and moral decency.
 
NotCrazyDan said:
You can’t even find one instance to back you up when you’re looking at the worst case of organized misconduct we’ve had the entire war?
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There are several instances of rape and sexual assault mentioned in the report. For example:
Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.
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Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped
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etc. etc.

And also, this is just one of many reports which picked examples from the bigger picture. Another classified CID report leaked to the media mentions that the pannel reviewed over 600 graphic pornographic photos taken by US military personel involving detainees.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
There are several instances of rape and sexual assault mentioned in the report. For example:

And also, this is just one of many reports which picked examples from the bigger picture. Another classified CID report leaked to the media mentions that the pannel reviewed over 600 graphic pornographic photos taken by US military personel involving detainees.
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Abu Ghraib is a terrible mark on the United States Army and all of our Military. Whomever made the decision to put an untrained Reserve unit it charge of that place should be the one doing time right now with the abusers. That unit had total lack of leadership.

I can say for a fact starting in Basic Combat Training we are trained never to abuse a prisoner in fact we are trained to protect prisoners with our lives.

There is no excuse for the behavior of those soldiers that would have never happened if I was there some soldiers’ butts would have felt my boots. Why some of the NCO’s didn’t go higher up and report these abuses I don’t know?

Please understand our military is just a reflection of our civilian society.

Ok you brought Abu Ghraib which everyone agrees was terrible what else have you got to show that our military is out there raping and murdering all over the place?

The American military never and I say again never purposely targets civilians.

Just rehashing this stuff like the OP did just helps the terrorists. So when reporters and news outlets like the NYT put out classified information or demand all those photos be published—

When the next soldier gets tortured and murdered they are the ones with American blood on their hands.

So you seem to dislike our military or am I wrong?
 
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