When the Pope visits the U.K

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This papal visit is a public relations disaster waiting to happen; just you wait.

Great Britain is a Protestant kingdom that remains at sixes and sevens with the Vatican, and with Roman Catholicism in general.

Pope John Paul II’s visit to the United Kingdom was not a disaster because of his super star status, his brilliant personality, and finely-tuned people skills. Much as I love and admire our Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI simply isn’t blessed with his renowned predecessor’s notable qualities in those respects.

Add to that the astonishingly inept way in which the Vatican bumbled its response to the most recent abuse scandal, causing hurt and anger all around the world. Those nerves are still raw, particularly in places like Ireland, for example.

And there won’t be any warmth for the pope in England, of all places, where the pontiff will have to stand before the Supreme Governor of the Church of England and perhaps offer an explanation to her for Rome’s recent attempts to court her Anglican subjects away from Canterbury and back to the fold of Rome.

And all of that doesn’t even take into account the number of Brits who want to see the pontiff arrested upon arrival and put on trial at the Hague for crimes against humanity.

It’s a disaster waiting to happen. A disaster. At best, a flop. An ill-advised journey, if you ask me.
 
Pregustator said:
It’s a disaster waiting to happen. A disaster. At best, a flop. An ill-advised journey, if you ask me.
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And what about the faithful on these isles? Why should His Holiness hide for fear of the wolves?

Everything you’ve said can easily be said for America, for France and for a hundred other nations. But again I ask you… why should we hide? The media is going to lie and put a spin on anything the Holy Father does. He cannot win with them so he shouldn’t try.

I can’t wait for the backlash from the Pope’s visit. I prefer my enemies out where I can see them instead of hiding in the shadows with a poisioned dagger,
 
But again I ask you… why should we hide?
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I don’t believe I’ve suggested that the pope or anybody else should hide, so I’m not sure whence your question. I merely gave my opinion on what I believe the end result of this apostolic journey will ultimately amount to: a PR disaster for the Vatican. It already is, in fact.

Sometimes a papal visit makes sense. I’m not sure this one does, however. It isn’t a matter of hiding, just a question of the usefulness of it. I think it will end up doing more harm than good, to be honest. I hope I’m wrong, of course, but I really don’t have a good feeling about this trip.
 
Pregustator said:
This papal visit is a public relations disaster waiting to happen; just you wait.

And it could also be a success. Just you wait.

Great Britain is a Protestant kingdom that remains at sixes and sevens with the Vatican, and with Roman Catholicism in general.

C of E may be the established religion over here but both sides work jointly towards common good.

Pope John Paul II’s visit to the United Kingdom was not a disaster because of his super star status, his brilliant personality, and finely-tuned people skills. Much as I love and admire our Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI simply isn’t blessed with his renowned predecessor’s notable qualities in those respects.

** I have had six Popes in my lifetime. I cannot say one is better than the other. All are bestowed the qualities necessary to engage that which challenges the Church at the time. Pope Benedict XVI does not need to be like Pope John Paul II. Pope Benedict XVI is fine as he is. **

Add to that the astonishingly inept way in which the Vatican bumbled its response to the most recent abuse scandal, causing hurt and anger all around the world. Those nerves are still raw, particularly in places like Ireland, for example.

**The sex scandals will continue to be raw because folks keep picking on scab. **

And there won’t be any warmth for the pope in England, of all places, where the pontiff will have to stand before the Supreme Governor of the Church of England and perhaps offer an explanation to her for Rome’s recent attempts to court her Anglican subjects away from Canterbury and back to the fold of Rome.

** You ought to give the Queen more credit than that. The Royal family and the C of E have had Catholic converts even before recent events. Nothing new really. **

And all of that doesn’t even take into account the number of Brits who want to see the pontiff arrested upon arrival and put on trial at the Hague for crimes against humanity.

I would not worry about that. They have no legal grounds.

It’s a disaster waiting to happen. A disaster. At best, a flop. An ill-advised journey, if you ask me.
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** Jesus knew what awaited in Jerusalem but, He went all the same. So, the Holy Father follow in His footsteps. But, are’nt you also forgetting that, like Jerusalem, it was not all doom and gloom?**
 
When a new Pope takes office;his nationality becomes neutralised & should not have any bearing on his popularity.Should it?
 
The fact that the Pope by accident of birth was born in Germany at a time when the world was in turmoil has no bearing on his ability to be Pope.He was fifteen years old at the end of the war in a bomb ravished country like many children in Europe he had no idea who started it or the monumental cost ,he was caught up between a rock and a hard place,every child in Germany was enrolledi n hitlers youth ,they had no choice it wasn,t like the Boys Scouts you know ,take it or leave it.his own country men would have killed him given half a chance .I know and have worked with Germans who were int he same position and they sitill hold terrible anger aagainst Germany for what was done to them they weren,t all Nazis though they all suffered the fallout for years after
 
I will defer to the English and the Scots here on this issue about the depth and breadth of anti-Catholic sentiment in England and Scotland. I knew it exists to this day. The English firmly planted anti-Catholic sentiment in the American colonies and it resides here in the USA to this day.

For nearly 300 years it was illegal to be a Catholic in England, and the Catholic faith was legalized in England well before England quit tormenting Ireland.

An ancestor of my mother came from Scotland, but I think he was always Catholic, and being so was one of the reasons he fled Scotland.

One might think that after 500 years, the “Orange” and their fellow travelers would get over it, but they don’t seem to have done so.
 
stuart12 said:
The Holy Father will offer the Sacrifice out near Ibrox, ground of Rangers football club:D
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When I drive home from Sunday Mass, I always go past Ibrox. I must admit, sometimes the window goes down and the rebel songs go up :D! I pray God delivers me a parking space at Ibrox. I’ve had to put up with those lot marching by my window for years, now it’s their turn :p!
 
I have had six Popes in my lifetime. I cannot say one is better than the other. All are bestowed the qualities necessary to engage that which challenges the Church at the time. Pope Benedict XVI does not need to be like Pope John Paul II. Pope Benedict XVI is fine as he is.
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I’ve had but four in mine and I can neither say that one was better than the other, but I do recognize that, of those four popes, two of them–the John Pauls–enjoyed far greater popularity worldwide than the other two.

We aren’t speaking about competence in the papacy, here, but about an upcoming papal visit to Protestant Britain and whether or not it will be a success. My point was not to suggest that the Pope needs to be like Pope John Paul II, or that he isn’t “fine” as he is; my point was merely to point out that while Pope John Paul II was brilliantly well-equipped with PR skills and personal charm, His Holiness the Pope…not so much, I’m afraid.

And so he goes to England, not with John Paul II’s legendary charm and celebrity, but with the taint of the abuse scandal, his less than brilliant handling of it (again, PR-wise), and add to all of it the sort of suspicious reaction the world has had to this pope from the beginning of his pontificate. I would argue that he is even less well-liked than Pope Paul VI was in his time.

As a faithful Roman Catholic who is able to look past generalizations, I recognize in the Pope many, many fine qualities which I deeply admire. Whereas the Pope is seen by many in a rather negative light–as a rather darksome figure with a German Nazi past and a sinister look on his face who protects child molesters–I, on the other hand see what most sincere Catholics see: a gentle and pious man with a brilliant intellect who is going about quietly reforming the reforms of Vatican II. I very sincerely value that.

So I don’t mean to say that the Pope is in any way deficient or that he ought to be somebody he is not; quite the contrary. What I do say, however, is that he is not the pope best equipped to make this journey.
All are bestowed the qualities necessary to engage that which challenges the Church at the time.
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Well, that’s hardly the case, I’m afraid. Read your history of the papacy. We’ve had plenty, I’m sorry to say, who were completely useless (or worse than useless) in any time.
 
Pregustator said:
This papal visit is a public relations disaster waiting to happen; just you wait.

Great Britain is a Protestant kingdom that remains at sixes and sevens with the Vatican, and with Roman Catholicism in general.

Pope John Paul II’s visit to the United Kingdom was not a disaster because of his super star status, his brilliant personality, and finely-tuned people skills. Much as I love and admire our Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI simply isn’t blessed with his renowned predecessor’s notable qualities in those respects.

Add to that the astonishingly inept way in which the Vatican bumbled its response to the most recent abuse scandal, causing hurt and anger all around the world. Those nerves are still raw, particularly in places like Ireland, for example.

And there won’t be any warmth for the pope in England, of all places, where the pontiff will have to stand before the Supreme Governor of the Church of England and perhaps offer an explanation to her for Rome’s recent attempts to court her Anglican subjects away from Canterbury and back to the fold of Rome.

And all of that doesn’t even take into account the number of Brits who want to see the pontiff arrested upon arrival and put on trial at the Hague for crimes against humanity.

It’s a disaster waiting to happen. A disaster. At best, a flop. An ill-advised journey, if you ask me.
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Regarding your comment in bold: if we in the UK are so at “sixes and sevens with the Vatican and with Roman Catholicism in general”, then why do you suppose that Pope Benedict is visiting us by invitation of our government on behalf of Her Majesty the Queen? Pope John Paul II came to us on a pastoral visit; Pope Benedict XVI is invited on a State visit. It will be an historic occasion.

This is what Lord Patten has to say:

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2010/09/02/papal-visit-will-be-a-great-commonwealth-event-says-lord-patten/

Papal visit will be a great Commonwealth event, says Lord Patten

*He said: **“First of all, we are welcoming the head of a Church which represents about 10 per cent of citizens of this country, and represents over a billion people around the world. Second, we’re welcoming somebody with whose Church we work closely around the world in pursuit of the Government’s aims of promoting social equity and sustainable development.

“We don’t share every policy position but we work extremely closely with the Church in Africa, in Asia, in the United Nations, for example, in about three weeks time in promoting the same goals in New York when the Millennium Development Goals are discussed, and I hope when the issue of climate change is debated once again later this year.”

He also praised the “important contribution” the Church made to the social development of Britain.

“For all those reasons the Pope’s visit is hugely welcome. But it’s also welcome I think because of its assertion of the important role that religion, that Christianity, has played in the shaping of our own society. I think people will be listening to what His Holiness has to say about the relationship between religion and some of the other presently dominant influences in our society and in Europe as a whole,” he said.***

🙂
 
1. Is this the most challenging trip of Benedict’s papacy?
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My basic answer is, “Don’t flatter yourselves.” This will be Benedict’s 17th foreign trip, and not only is this probably not the most strenuous test he’s faced, it’s arguably not even his most demanding visit in Western Europe.
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In terms of immediate context, Benedict’s 2006 trip to Turkey was far more dicey – his first to a Muslim nation, hard on the heels of his Regensburg speech which triggered fierce protest around the Islamic world. The pope’s 2009 trip to Israel and the Palestinian Territories was also a high-wire act, both on the diplomatic and inter-religious levels.
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Within Europe, Benedict’s July 2006 trip to Spain was at least as potentially choppy, featuring his first-ever showdown with Socialist Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero – seen by many European Catholics as an avatar of secularism on steroids. Spain’s fierce anti-clerical rage is at least arguably more menacing for a pope than gentle English ridicule. (Remember the line from “A Man for All Seasons” – “This isn’t Spain, you know. This is England.”)
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That said, there are challenges aplenty awaiting Benedict.
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After all, he’s a religious conservative colliding with a fairly liberal, secular culture; a German visiting a country that fought two wars against Germany in the 20th century; a pope travelling to a place where ambivalence about the papacy is part of the DNA; and the head of the Catholic church visiting a culture where the main Catholic storyline of late has been about pedophile priests. All in all, it’s a tough room.
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Let’s count the ways: High-profile atheists want the pope arrested for alleged complicity in covering up sexual abuse scandals. A Foreign Office bureaucrat has suggested that Benedict visit an abortion clinic or launch his own brand of condoms. There’s a growing chorus of complaint about why British taxpayers should pay $18.5 million for the trip. Reportedly, British Catholics have been reluctant to pick up their share of the tab, or even to get tickets for the big events, despite the lure of marquee performers such as Susan Boyle. Human rights lawyer Geoffrey Robinson is publishing a book called The Case of the Pope, arguing that Benedict should be stripped of his status as “the one man left in the world who is above the law.”
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There will be some intra-Catholic noise. Advocates of women priests have paid for ads on fifteen red buses in London reading “Pope Benedict – Ordain Women Now!” Next week, a group called Catholic Voices for Reform is holding a press conference to present Benedict with questions on matters such as “corruption” and “mindless obedience.” Outside the Catholic fold, a mix of secularists, gay rights activists, and others plan to march in London on Sept. 18 under the banner of “Protest the Pope!” A smaller group is organizing a separate demonstration against his visit to the Twickenham neighborhood the day before.
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If the question is whether Benedict XVI has his work cut out for him, the answer is “sure.” I’ve written before that a papal trip anyplace in Western Europe these days is the sociological equivalent of a Gay Pride rally, in that Catholics too now perceive themselves as a misunderstood minority obliged to practice a politics of identity. Recently Edmund Adamus, director of pastoral affairs in the diocese of Westminster, said that Britain has become more anti-Catholic than Saudi Arabia, China and Pakistan, because of its embrace of a “culture of death”. Catholic composer James MacMillan, who has produced a new setting of the Mass to mark the papal visit, has called anti-Catholicism “the new anti-Semitism of the liberal intellectual.” Whatever backlash awaits Benedict in the U.K. will only strengthen such perceptions.
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If the question, however, is whether this trip presents a set of headaches the pope has never seen before, the answer is basically “Been there, done that.”
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The rest of the article "Four questions about the pope’s trip to the UK
by John L Allen Jr " here:

ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/four-questions-about-popes-trip-uk
 
on a recent programme on tony blair, it told of a story where he needed to send someone to the vatican as the uk ambassador, he picked someone he knew and thought would be an ideal candidate. but was told no by the civil servants because there was a problem with this man. he was a catholic and they have always sent a prodestant to be their ambasssador. tony blair rightly thought this was pathetic and offered the catholic the position anyway.
 
I’m going to the Mass at Hyde Park and I’m not looking forward to it as I was. There are many anti-Catholics in England and there will be protesting. There will also probably be a lot of anti-Catholic statements in the media that week and a commotion when entering the park.

It would be so great if God could perform a miracle and make everything run peacefully. Maybe He could even perform a miracle that converts millions :).
 
Thyme said:
It would be so great if God could perform a miracle and make everything run peacefully. Maybe He could even perform a miracle that converts millions :).
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Maybe it will fulfill one of the prophesies of Our Lady of La Salette: “A great country, now Protestant, in the north of Europe, will be converted; by the support of this country all the other nations of the world will be converted”

Wishful thinking 🙂
 
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