When will Lutherans and Anglicans merge?

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EvangelCatholic

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I have been watching and rejoicing over the continued movement of Lutheran and Anglican union. The Porvoo Communion of Anglican and Lutheran churches in Europe and the full communion between Episcopal and Lutherans [ELCA] in the US has brought the two traditions closer. There are mutual Lutheran and Episcopal parishes and clergy can serve in each denomination.

I think the eventual merger of Lutherans and Anglicans will occur in this century and hopefully within the next few decades.

Any thoughts on this subject?
 
EvangelCatholic said:
I have been watching and rejoicing over the continued movement of Lutheran and Anglican union. The Porvoo Communion of Anglican and Lutheran churches in Europe and the full communion between Episcopal and Lutherans [ELCA] in the US has brought the two traditions closer. There are mutual Lutheran and Episcopal parishes and clergy can serve in each denomination.

I think the eventual merger of Lutherans and Anglicans will occur in this century and hopefully within the next few decades.

Any thoughts on this subject?
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By merger I presume you mean a single Anglican-Lutheran tradition, and not simply two different traditions in full communion with each other? The Anglicans and Lutherans are themselves already divided into multiple churches, so I doubt they will merge into a single entity like the Catholic Church. Anyway, I highly doubt it. I have a feeling they’re quite comfortable where they are now. Mergers do all kinds of bad things to the integrity of hierarchy and status quo, and many traditions in each may seem alien to the other.

In Europe, the Anglican Church is mostly associated with the British Isles and Romance countries, while the Lutheran Church identifies more with the Germanic countries. Furthermore, their jurisdictions don’t overlap. On the other hand, the American side might merge. Their jurisdictions do overlap (the whole of America, in fact), so they might benefit more from consolidating resources, plus they don’t identify as strongly with their origins.
 
I have been watching and rejoicing over the continued union of Lutherans and Anglicans. The Porvoo Communion among European Lutherans and Anglicans and the full communion of American Lutherans [ELCA] and Episcopalians [also Canadians] allows for merged parishes and interchange of clergy.

Worldwide Lutherans and Anglicans make up approximately 140 million Christians. If these two historic catholic traditions unify it could be a catalyst for other Christians.

Any thoughts?
 
EvangelCatholic said:
I have been watching and rejoicing over the continued union of Lutherans and Anglicans. The Porvoo Communion among European Lutherans and Anglicans and the full communion of American Lutherans [ELCA] and Episcopalians [also Canadians] allows for merged parishes and interchange of clergy.

Worldwide Lutherans and Anglicans make up approximately 140 million Christians. If these two historic catholic traditions unify it could be a catalyst for other Christians.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Interesting, if it works. Of course, if there are dissenters, then it will just end up being yet another denomination, like the United Church of Canada, which was supposed to unite Presbyterians, Methodists, and Congregationalists. But we still have Presbyterians, Methodists, and Congregationalists, and now we have the United Church of Canada, too - instead of three becoming one, as was intended, the three became four. 🤷

Realistically, I expect that that’s what will happen with this union church - there will still remain Lutherans and Anglicans, and then this third one as well.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
I have been watching and rejoicing over the continued union of Lutherans and Anglicans. The Porvoo Communion among European Lutherans and Anglicans and the full communion of American Lutherans [ELCA] and Episcopalians [also Canadians] allows for merged parishes and interchange of clergy.

Worldwide Lutherans and Anglicans make up approximately 140 million Christians. If these two historic catholic traditions unify it could be a catalyst for other Christians.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
A couple of thoughts.
  1. There has emerged a dialogue of sorts between the LCMS and ACNA. Neither seems to project this as a precursor for unity, but only for closer relations to pursue the ministry of Christ in the world in whatever ways we can jointly. Good thing.
  2. Amongst confessional Lutherans, however, is this little thing whereby unity requires unity of doctrine, and it seems Anglo-Catholics (I would surmise could be considered the Anglican version of confessional Lutherans) appear to have a similarly high standard for unity. I have on occasion wondered aloud to GKC here why our liberal wings can find unity, but our conservative wings cannot. That’s the reason.
And yet, from a personal POV, I’d probably fit better in an Anglo-Catholic setting, than a liberal Lutheran one.

Jon
 
Filii_Dei said:
By merger I presume you mean a single Anglican-Lutheran tradition, and not simply two different traditions in full communion with each other? The Anglicans and Lutherans are themselves already divided into multiple churches, so I doubt they will merge into a single entity like the Catholic Church. Anyway, I highly doubt it. I have a feeling they’re quite comfortable where they are now. Mergers do all kinds of bad things to the integrity of hierarchy and status quo, and many traditions in each may seem alien to the other.

In Europe, the Anglican Church is mostly associated with the British Isles and Romance countries, while the Lutheran Church identifies more with the Germanic countries. Furthermore, their jurisdictions don’t overlap. On the other hand, the American side might merge. Their jurisdictions do overlap (the whole of America, in fact), so they might benefit more from consolidating resources, plus they don’t identify as strongly with their origins.
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You raise some good points. I think individual countries in Europe and elsewhere might retain their unique identity considering language. For example, the Anglican Communion encompasses many individual churches but under the Archbishop of Canterbury. My sense is that Lutherans and Episcopalians will merge into one distinct church in America and Canada though I am sure that there would be resistance among many in both denominations.
 
Sorry but there are two threads on this topic. I am having trouble accessing and submitted two near identical threads. I can’t figure out how to delete one of the threads. :o
 
EvangelCatholic said:
You raise some good points. I think individual countries in Europe and elsewhere might retain their unique identity considering language. For example, the Anglican Communion encompasses many individual churches but under the Archbishop of Canterbury. My sense is that Lutherans and Episcopalians will merge into one distinct church in America and Canada though I am sure that there would be resistance among many in both denominations.
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I would not think TEC and the ELCA feel the need to merge. Full altar and pulpit fellowship allows each to keep its liturgical essence and polity. I would compare it loosely to perhaps Eastern Catholics in communion with Rome

Jon
 
jmcrae said:
Interesting, if it works. Of course, if there are dissenters, then it will just end up being yet another denomination, like the United Church of Canada, which was supposed to unite Presbyterians, Methodists, and Congregationalists. But we still have Presbyterians, Methodists, and Congregationalists, and now we have the United Church of Canada, too - instead of three becoming one, as was intended, the three became four. 🤷

Realistically, I expect that that’s what will happen with this union church - there will still remain Lutherans and Anglicans, and then this third one as well.
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Not only that, there are several divisions in the Lutheran Church alone, at least in the US. There is the Lutheran Church of America; Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, and probably a few more I don’t know the names of. In our town there are two Lutheran churches just a block away from each other. I’m thinking they might be two completely different branches of Lutheranism.🤷
 
EvangelCatholic said:
You raise some good points. I think individual countries in Europe and elsewhere might retain their unique identity considering language. For example, the Anglican Communion encompasses many individual churches but under the Archbishop of Canterbury. My sense is that Lutherans and Episcopalians will merge into one distinct church in America and Canada though I am sure that there would be resistance among many in both denominations.
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The Archbishop of Canterbury is nominal head of the Anglican Communion, but not of any Anglican Church save the Church of England. It is a honorary title, not an hierarchical one.

GKC
 
LegoGE1947 said:
Not only that, there are several divisions in the Lutheran Church alone, at least in the US. There is the Lutheran Church of America; Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, and probably a few more I don’t know the names of. In our town there are two Lutheran churches just a block away from each other. I’m thinking they might be two completely different branches of Lutheranism.🤷
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I am a former LCMS Lutheran. I was educated in the LCMS from parochial school to seminary.

In the 1970’s a rift occurred within the LCMS over relatively minor concerns regarding historical critical biblical interpretation. The president of Concordia Seminary in St Louis, Fr John Tiejten, led the faculty and seminarians out of the seminary behind a processional crucifix in protest over fundamentalist pressure from Synod hierarchy. These faithful Lutherans expressed strong catholic commitment but would not be forced into ecclesiastical submission; the Missouri Synod spit. Now a part of the ELCA, these former LCMS Lutherans were a catalyst for all Lutherans to unite under exegesis toleration and a return to apostolic succession.
 
I am sorry that I accidentally submitted two threads on this topic. I am unable to access Catholic Answers except by email :o
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Sorry but there are two threads on this topic. I am having trouble accessing and submitted two near identical threads. I can’t figure out how to delete one of the threads. :o
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ask the moderators. On the top right,there is a triangle…click that to notify the mods…to delete a post, to report spam…to delete a thread.
 
Does anyone recognize the irony of all of this? King Henry VIII, the founder of the Anglican Church, was named “Defender of the Faith” for his opposition to Martin Luther! And, dispite his break with Rome, he remained opposed to Luther for the rest of his life.
 
George_Stegmeir said:
Does anyone recognize the irony of all of this? King Henry VIII, the founder of the Anglican Church, was named “Defender of the Faith” for his opposition to Martin Luther! And, dispite his break with Rome, he remained opposed to Luther for the rest of his life.
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The Assertio Septem Sacramentorum was one of the reasons Henry received the title, yes.

GKC
 
George_Stegmeir said:
Does anyone recognize the irony of all of this? King Henry VIII, the founder of the Anglican Church, was named “Defender of the Faith” for his opposition to Martin Luther! And, dispite his break with Rome, he remained opposed to Luther for the rest of his life.
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Actually Henry VIII did not found the Anglican Church. It was a Bishop named Thomas Cranmer that founded it.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
I have been watching and rejoicing over the continued union of Lutherans and Anglicans. The Porvoo Communion among European Lutherans and Anglicans and the full communion of American Lutherans [ELCA] and Episcopalians [also Canadians] allows for merged parishes and interchange of clergy.

Worldwide Lutherans and Anglicans make up approximately 140 million Christians. If these two historic catholic traditions unify it could be a catalyst for other Christians.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Well…have you heard of the expression…a marriage made in hell? I think it may be something like that.

But without a unifying figure…there will not be true unity…only a superficial unity. And this will just add to the multitude of splitting protestant denominations…I mean how can you prevent it from becoming another denomination?
 
Porknpie said:
Ok, now if true… there would by some irony that the person who founded Anglicanism was burned at the stake. :eek: I had never heard of this…person founding the Anglicans. ??

luminarium.org/renlit/cranmerbio.htm
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Henry was the fons et origo of the Church in England, with the Henrician Acts of 1534-35. Cranmer was instrumental in shaping the early course of the CoE, first working under Henry’s basic orthodoxy, then under Edward VI’s Protectors, Somerset and Northumberland, more to his way of mind. The Edwardian period moved the CoE toward the reformed side, with Cranmer’s assistance. Just as Elizabeth I shifted it back toward a* via media,* under the Elizabethan Compromise.

But what was going on there was the shaping of the CoE, in one way and another, not its founding.

GKC
 
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