When will the insanity end?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jimmy_B
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jimmy_B

Guest
When will the insanity end? When will all the infighting stop? When will there be true Christian unity…unity in beliefs?

Because of the flawed doctrine of “personal interpretation”, today, there are approximately 40,000 different, Protestant, non-Catholic Christian denominations, divisions and subdivisions, each and everyone one of them, with a little different “spin” on Christianity.

I would like to hear a Protestant explain the logic or biblical bases for these divisions and sub-divisions of Christianity.

Personal interpretation has led to “mob rule” and chaos and it has weakened Christianity. It is the old, “divide and conquer” principle and we are dividing and conquering ourselves.

Imagine how much greater Christianity would be and all the great things that we could accomplish, working together as one faith, which was truly united…

The insanity needs to stop….Where living in a world today, where anyone who has a Bible can become a “minister” and start his or her own (Protestant) Christian denomination. People now can pay a small free and become “ordained ministers”, over the internet. Many people today are having non-denominational ministers perform their marriage ceremonies. What is a “non-denominational ministers” anyways…this does not even make any sense.

Some ministers make a living, just marring people. They have drive-through marriage chapels and Elvis impersonators who perform marriages in Las Vegas. There are ministers on TV who claim to heal people and ask for your money. Some ministers and preachers today wear Rolex watches, drive expensive cars and live in multi-million dollar mansions, all paid for with the monies that were given to them, with the intention that it would go to help the needy.

There is even a “drunken minister” on the Jerry Springer show.

All these so-called “Ministers of God” belong to some Protestant denomination. People today have made a mockery of Christianity and a mockery of Holy Sacraments, like marriage. The main cause of all this nonsense can be blamed on “personal interpretation” of the Bible.

I know that there are some good and decent ministers and decent denominations out there but with personal interpretation, even a “normal ministers” could error and join the ranks of all the other crazy’s.

Why don’t the “squared away” denominations, reign in the nut cases? They don’t, because they can’t…They can’t, because they too believe in the flawed doctrine of “personal interpretation” or, “to each his own”…right?.

I am sure that there exist some Protestants out their who are just as offended as I am with the breakdown of Christianity…What are your thoughts and how is anybody going to correct these problems, without central leadership, oversight and a chain of command?

I pray for true Christian Unity….

Peace

Jimmy B.
 
Let’s talk about personal interpretation of the Bible and the divisions in Christianity today.
 
At the risk of stumping a lively debate, I agree wholeheartedly 😛

“Jesus’ prayer for all believers (Jn 17:20-25)” said:
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25"Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me.”
Click to expand...

By being disunited with our brothers and sisters in Christ, we are partially accountable for the souls of those who refuse his message - how can they accept 40 000 different messages?
 
Crepusculum said:
At the risk of stumping a lively debate, I agree wholeheartedly 😛

By being disunited with our brothers and sisters in Christ, we are partially accountable for the souls of those who refuse his message - how can they accept 40 000 different messages?
Click to expand...
I agree, great point!
 
I’m offended that people are completely forgetting about the most significant church out of them. the Church of NPH.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Let’s talk about personal interpretation of the Bible and the divisions in Christianity today.
Click to expand...
There is division in ALL religions, its just not as bitter as it often seems to be in Christianity and Islam.

Islam has divisions also…so does Judaism…even the Catholic church has divisions, that often argue…between Traditionalists and those who might be called Novus Ordo Catholics, not to mention the even more liberal Catholics, the liberation theologists, pro-choice Catholic groups, those who advocate for the ordination of women, and the like.
 
Ah, that’s why I’ve never heard of him! I rarely watch TV or go to movies, and the only movies I’m really a fan of are classic ones (1960s on back.)
 
I guess I am not so bothered by all the denominations of Christians. They are trying, as best they can, to do what is right. And I understand why some of them split from the Catholic church a long time ago.

The Popes, and many of the clergy were corrupt. There are some denominations that didn’t start out with the best of intentions, such as the sect that Henry the VIII started, and Queen Elizabeth continued, but I think we shouldn’t be too harsh on the followers of that church at this date in time.

I argue/discuss with the fundamentalista all the time at work. In fact, we do it quite often. We meet for coffee in this little room that the Telecom people work in and (I escape from the mainframe systems programmers) to talk with the Telecom guys - they are more interesting characters. But, I believe they truly believe what they believe in is correct. They now know that Catholics don’t worship statues, or pray to Mary as if she is God, or any of the other nonsense that is passed along in their congregations. I was flabberghasted when I heard what they think of Catholics!

Anyway - sometimes the problem is with the Catholics themselves. Reach out to others of other denominations. Have a talk. You don’t have to convert to their religion! Just talk. I also talk to Jews (more like Jewesses) a lot too. IF we talk about religous stuff, it is more the Israeli/muslim situation. But, there is no animosity that they show against me because I am a Catholic. In fact, quite the opposite - we go to lunch quite often, go to baseball games, etc.

And the muslims - well, they don’t even say ‘hi’. They don’t even look at me in the eyes. One is suing my company because we didn’t hire him - he was a poor worker and we all knew about it so hired this black guy instead and so the muslim guy was all upset over that. Way too arrogant in my estimation - what made him think that he was entitled to be selected! I don’t say he should not have a job - it is just that he didn’t get selected - **A LOT OF **people don’t get selected!

I also know some Buddhists - and they are ok too. They have talked about what they do and it sort of goes over my head a bit. I am not that familiar with Buddhism. I know of the ‘right speech, right thought, right hearing, etc…’ stuff but I don’t know too much else about it.

And the Hindus are more friendly, but are standoffish too. they group together with their other Hindu buddies and it is hard to get to know them. I know the least about Hinduism. So I wouldn’t even know what to ask about in that religion.
 
Whether the popes were corrupt, whether anything has happened in the church at all (most of the stuff you hear is grossly overestimated anyway), It is STILL the church that Jesus Christ founded. NO MATTER WHAT you say and NO MATTER WHAT your negativity is, the Catholic church has stood for 2,000 years.

NO MATTER WHAT.
 
Cathdefender said:
Whether the popes were corrupt, whether anything has happened in the church at all (most of the stuff you hear is grossly overestimated anyway), It is STILL the church that Jesus Christ founded. NO MATTER WHAT you say and NO MATTER WHAT your negativity is, the Catholic church has stood for 2,000 years.

NO MATTER WHAT.
Click to expand...
I forget where I read it or who said it, but recently I was reading an article online, and what the author said impacted me.

He said that the fact that the church was able to do some of the horrible things they did, is prooof enough that is it not the true religion. Because if it was the true religion, God would never have permitted it to defame His Name in such a way.
 
R_not said:
I argue/discuss with the fundamentalista all the time at work. In fact, we do it quite often. We meet for coffee in this little room that the Telecom people work in and (I escape from the mainframe systems programmers) to talk with the Telecom guys - they are more interesting characters. But, I believe they truly believe what they believe in is correct. They now know that Catholics don’t worship statues, or pray to Mary as if she is God, or any of the other nonsense that is passed along in their congregations. I was flabberghasted when I heard what they think of Catholics!

Anyway - sometimes the problem is with the Catholics themselves. Reach out to others of other denominations. Have a talk. You don’t have to convert to their religion! Just talk.
Click to expand...
Yes, it’s important to talk. What makes me want to give up reaching out to some people is when they won’t answer questions nor wait for answers to questions, but answer simple questions with loaded rhetorical questions, act superior and do whatever they can to avoid rational conversation. It makes me feel they know they’re wrong, and won’t think about the issues.
 
If you want to understand the reasons why some separated then read about Erasmus and Luther to begin with. I can’t recommend any books because I cannot find the book that discusses them. There is a third man who was discussed and I cannot even remember his name.

But, then there was Henry VIII - well, we all know why he split from the Church - he wanted to divorce and marry again. Well, then after Henry’s reign, and the brief time that his son reigned - there came Queen Mary (Bloody Mary) who thought that being a good Catholic meant to burn the Protestants! Well, that is a bad blight on our history also. And it isn’t so much that a Queen did such a thing - that there were those willing to carry out those sorts of orders too. We see that with any thug rule - way too many that are too willing to carry out heinous deeds. Hitler had them, Mao had them, mohammed had them, Pol Pot had them, Stalin had them, etc etc etc.

Much of the reasons that I remember is that the Church was selling the indulgences - basically if a person paid the Church some money they could escape Hell, or at the very least Purgatory. The Church did this at a time when the peasants could not afford to do such things. And then there were other reasons such as the interpretation of the Bible. I don’t remember all the reasons that the book that I cannot find had mentioned. but the Church itself, to me, is to blame for what happened.
 
Sepharad said:
I forget where I read it or who said it, but recently I was reading an article online, and what the author said impacted me.

He said that the fact that the church was able to do some of the horrible things they did, is prooof enough that is it not the true religion. Because if it was the true religion, God would never have permitted it to defame His Name in such a way.
Click to expand...
That is hardly any proof at all…that line is ridiculous. The fact is that if the church has stood IN SPITE of it’s hardships, should prove just the opposite of what you just said. What about the Jews today who are defaming the NT and Jesus Christ? Does that prove there is no God? Ridiculous. BTW, the Catholic church has never defamed Jesus Christ but DEFENDED him right from the beginning, until the end of time, just as Jesus said.
Whatever the Catholic church did for it’s faith, and to protect the holy word of God, to protect the bible and the successors of 265 popes as of today, I would do the same. God Bless holy mother church.
 
strngrnrth said:
Yes, it’s important to talk. What makes me want to give up reaching out to some people is when they won’t answer questions nor wait for answers to questions, but answer simple questions with loaded rhetorical questions, act superior and do whatever they can to avoid rational conversation. It makes me feel they know they’re wrong, and won’t think about the issues.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you are right - some of them do that. I guess I was lucky in that the Telecom guys were ok with me - and my lippy ways - and we actually looked forward to our morning coffee and discussions. Don’t get me wrong - they are just as lippy and they do their ‘MCP thing’ on me too - it is just that I don’t take it and talk back! (I was raised with all brothers, was in the USMC, and have worked in a male dominated section of the IT field for decades - I behave more like them than I do a woman). In fact, I have very little in common with women if all they want to talk about is kids… shopping (gag) housework (double gag)… or what I will call ‘fluffy’ things.

The other way I was lucky was that I have a cousin who went from Catholicism to some non-denomiational Christian religion. She did that because of her husband being of that religion. They at least try to be good - and that is all anyone can ask of anyone. They give money to charities and are very into their religion. I would say it probably brings them together as a family. But her and I talk about it too.

She actually said to me one day, ‘Mary was a whore’. WHAT??!!??!!, I asked?! :eek: Are you telling me that God would pick a whore as his mother? And even if He did such a thing - are you passing judgement (haha - I thought I would get her either way!) on her? Anyway, I think I got her to at least think for herself and hopefully start questioning her fellow Christians in her church about their DUMB, or flippant, comments. Start thinking for oneself!

They are bothered that Catholics say the rosary. They think that we are praying to Mary as if she were God. I said that we are just asking Her to intercede for us - sort of ‘putting in a good word for us’ to Jesus. And I told her that praying the rosary sort of settled me down - it makes me think of Jesus’ life when I go over the stations of the Cross. I like praying the rosary.
 
R_not said:
Yeah, you are right - some of them do that. I guess I was lucky in that the Telecom guys were ok with me - and my lippy ways - and we actually looked forward to our morning coffee and discussions. Don’t get me wrong - they are just as lippy and they do their ‘MCP thing’ on me too - it is just that I don’t take it and talk back! (I was raised with all brothers, was in the USMC, and have worked in a male dominated section of the IT field for decades - I behave more like them than I do a woman). In fact, I have very little in common with women if all they want to talk about is kids… shopping (gag) housework (double gag)… or what I will call ‘fluffy’ things.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have a mouth on me as well, and I’m accustomed to rough crowds and all that. But when someone asks a question, then starts blathering a mile a second with eyes wild and every word covering a good two octaves or whatever and I try several times to get a word in edgewise but they just speed up the whole time and afterward claim I had nothing to say when in reality I said many pointed things they avoided hearing as hard as they could, I consider myself the default winner, if the conversation were a contest in clarity, sanity, maturity or confidence – but the other person hasn’t learned anything. I have learned only that some people really are that determined to avoid intelligent discussion. It’s saddening and tiring to be exposed to the same statements with no opportunity to turn it into a real conversation. Especially since I already had heard everything those people have to say so many times yet they usually think it’s new and should shatter my world and leave me in awe.:rolleyes: They usually hurry away before they run out of breath.
That’s why I just wear what I have to say. SInce most people are visually oriented, they can’t helpseeing what I said the way they avoid listening to it. Jewelry and T-shirts and so on can have a chance were conversation has little or none.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top