When you run out of money

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Just a slight follow up.

What about experiences of providential care? Again, the context is large families… Have you ever experienced this in terms of material goods or financial help that just seems to come at the right time? All of that assuming that one has tried one’s best to manage one’s finances and resources responsibly, of course.

God bless,
Ut
Yes. Mostly through my husband’s work situation. He is in skilled trades and will work for a contractor until a job is done and then is laid off. Those lay-offs can last just an hour or two (before being told they have another job for him, or he gets a response from a different contractor that another job is starting) - or they can last days, weeks, or months (especially if the economy is in difficulty and business put their orders to the contractors who employ him on hold).

So there no job security. Any job can last for any length of time (sometimes hours, sometimes years) and the gaps can be of any length. Not exactly something that’s easy to budget. We do our best to make prudent judgements for saving excess from overtime hours to cover weeks of short or no work, but, as I suspect you well know, with six kids, there’s always stuff coming up that’s unexpected.

But God has been there with us through every up and every down. He’s always gotten called back to work before things got dire. We’ve struggled with our debt and our bills but have never been at the very end of our funds.

I specifically remember one occasion. He’d been off work for a couple months. Unemployment was keeping us fed and my work was keeping the lights on, but the kids’ shoes were getting mighty worn. (Often were graced by generous gifts of hand-me-downs for clothes so that usually wasn’t ever an issue - but shoes…that’s something that almost always needs bought new). We were both getting a more than a little stressed about the situation wondering what we’d do if money from somewhere didn’t start coming in soon.
I was sitting on the porch talking to my MIL about it and said that I didn’t care if he got called to work out of town (not a welcome, but not an uncommon occurrence though it puts quite a strain on me as the still here parent) - but I was just praying to God he’d get a call. And no sooner had I said it, then, he did indeed get a phone call on his cell right then and there - for a job several hundred miles away - and could he be packed and ready to go in 3 hours? Now some may say coincidence but to me it was a direct response to my statement of faith that God was in control and I was willing to relinquish all the details to Him.

We try hard to save. Husband does good work and keeps in regular contact with many contractors as well as with his union rep to make sure his name is out there anytime he’s laid off. I work a part-time job now that the kids are big so we know we’ll have that small, steady income source to help stretch things over lean times. We do our part - but we also have seen over the past 20 years have many times we’ve received just the help we needed exactly when we needed it - which is why I remind myself to simply do my best and trust in God. We don’t always get it right - we’ve made bad money decisions and had to learn from them - but no matter what, it still always comes out okay in the end as we keep relying on God to help guide us.

I think it’s wrong to ask for help if you haven’t done everything possible to solve the problems yourself, but it’s also not wrong to accept gifts that are offered - from hand-me downs, to someone treating the kids to something. It’s not wrong to volunteer in exchange for discounts / free sports seasons.

I do feel wrong - and have refused - offers of help though that were offered to solve problems we didn’t feel we had. Example - we have no real flooring in our bedroom (destroyed in a flood many years ago). By choice, we’ve put our money over the years into kid activities and experiences rather than replace the flooring. That’s our choice, so when a close friend found out about the floor and was horrified by it and wanted to pay to replace it, we said no. That would not have been right to us to accept their hard earned money to fix something we could have fixed if we made different choices with our funds. On the other hand, shortly after the flood, we did accept a gift (not loan) of money from our parents so we could replace lower the kitchen cabinets that were also destroyed. We bought as inexpensive but still durable ones as we could find and hubby did all the installation himself to keep costs down. We needed the help and they were generous enough to offer it - but we only accepted enough to meet our main need. (Six kids - kitchen cabinets so you can have a working sink and counter-top to prepare food is a need - and not something that could be done without very easily for very long. Bedroom flooring instead of pieces of remnant carpeting over the slab foundation is a choice.)

And that’s what I’ve learned - to trust God, to ignore what society tells me is necessary, but instead really reflect and decide for what the children really need, and to own responsibility for both bad and good choices we make. To accept gifts graciously and thankfully if they come along, while not expecting them to. Not to envy what others have but celebrate our own successes as they come. To be patient. To be humble. And to be willing to ask for help when really needed and accept either a positive or negative answer with grace. And to know that if I keep trying, keep thinking, keep working at it - between God, my kids, and my spouse, we can solve any problem that comes up one way or another.

Hope my story and experiences are of some help.
Sincerely,
CJ
 
Just a slight follow up.

What about experiences of providential care? Again, the context is large families… Have you ever experienced this in terms of material goods or financial help that just seems to come at the right time? All of that assuming that one has tried one’s best to manage one’s finances and resources responsibly, of course.

God bless,
Ut
It would be foolish of me to think ‘my great talent’ brought about…

A phone call from a random HR lady who saw a resume, which at the time, was a year+ old.

It was on a website I had forgotten about because I wasn’t looking but was starting more schooling.

That resume wouldn’t have given any clue that I had any exposure to the specific field for which they were hunting.

From that phone call, steady work has met our needs for 15+ years.

And that company was (RIP) in a city with one of the largest schools in the nation from which they could have filled the position with one of hundreds of potential candidates a year or two out of school.

It makes zero sense in worldly odds that we got our start the way we did.

An old boss once said that each time they had a kid, God provided. New accounts would pop up. There was always something to cover for needs.

It was a humble trust.

We live and many times don’t see the miracles around us that allow for us to live. Mark 8 is a great example.
 
Our family has more times than I can count. Some examples are the time my husband received a bonus for attending an out of state school/training. We had planned to used that bonus to do some long wanted yet truly unnecessary home improvements. The day after the bonus hit our bank account my husband’s car broke down. The bonus was the exact amount needed to fix his car. That kind of stuff happens all the time. God is good all the time! We’ve been on trips where we break down in front of hotels and a vacationing mechanic just happens to be there and volunteers to get us moving again. Even given us rides to the auto parts store and on two occasions insisted on paying for the parts. On several occasions we had unexpected guests for dinner when I didn’t have enough food for everyone, but somehow everyone ate until full and we ended up with enough leftovers for lunch the next day.

We don’t always get the things we want but God always assures we have what is truly needed. Praying for your family. If you want specific examples of God providing you can PM me. Many I don’t want to post in an open forum.
 
Just a slight follow up.

What about experiences of providential care? Again, the context is large families… Have you ever experienced this in terms of material goods or financial help that just seems to come at the right time? All of that assuming that one has tried one’s best to manage one’s finances and resources responsibly, of course.

God bless,
Ut
We have experienced this many times. We had planned my husband would find a job soon after graduating and it was pressing on 6 months, and we just had our second child. Our plan was for me to stay home and just as I began to feel like I needed to take a job, God provided him with a great job in his field. I’ve also experienced this with things like unexpected bills and also receiving an unexpected gift of money for the same amount of said bill. I absolutely believe all these things happened because of God’s perfect timing.
 
Hi Folks,

I’m wondering if any of you parents have come to a point where you have reached the end of your financial means, but you had necessities that you needed to purchase. I understand that there is a lot that you can give up. For example, you could sell your house and downsize to something smaller. You could just not put the kids in programs and let them mill around the house all summer. You could by that 12 pass van with 200000plus KM on it for 6000 instead of that same van with 70000KM at 25 0000.

But is there a point where begging others for help is the better way to go? And how to do this in a way that does not dishonor God, myself, and my children?

I have prided myself on being financially independent of others for the last 12 years of my marriage. I have supported my family as best I can. But maybe that pride is misplaced right now? Maybe I should give it up, humble myself, and seek help from others with hat in hand?

I know I have already been given much. Although I have never asked others, people have almost forced me to take things from them. For example, my rich brother has essentially clothed all my boys with hand me downs (many of them worn only once or twice) from his own kids. Other people have offered us things they don’t need, and we have always accepted what we need from those offers gratefully.

I’d appreciate any advice people can offer. Especially from folks with large families, although advice from others will also be appreciated.

God bless,
Ut
I would avoid becoming a mendicant by any means necessary. This book is a helpful and encouraging resource for those who find themselves in financially challenging circumstances.

amazon.com/Complete-Tightwad-Gazette-Promoting-Alternative/dp/0375752250
 
Yes. Mostly through my husband’s work situation. He is in skilled trades and will work


Hope my story and experiences are of some help.
Sincerely,
CJ
CJ, Thank you for this post! It reflects my experience almost to the dot. We to have made some mistakes. And I think God sometimes allows us to suffer the consequences of our bad decisions to help us become more detached from the things we think we need.

I also love the example you gave about the floors in your bedroom. We have a similar problem with the tiles in the kitchen having been poorly installed before we first bought our house. Friends of ours were horrified by their state and offered us money. We didn’t really think we needed to fix this… at least I think I can do it myself and a fraction of the cost… but then our car broke down, we found out we were expecting a seventh, and suddenly it became really important for us to find a vehicle that fits a family of 9 instead of 8. So they money that was there for the flooring became available for the purchase of the van (which we bought last night, thanks be to God).

God bless,
Ut
 
It would be foolish of me to think ‘my great talent’ brought about…

A phone call from a random HR lady who saw a resume, which at the time, was a year+ old.

It was on a website I had forgotten about because I wasn’t looking but was starting more schooling.

That resume wouldn’t have given any clue that I had any exposure to the specific field for which they were hunting.

From that phone call, steady work has met our needs for 15+ years.

And that company was (RIP) in a city with one of the largest schools in the nation from which they could have filled the position with one of hundreds of potential candidates a year or two out of school.

It makes zero sense in worldly odds that we got our start the way we did.

An old boss once said that each time they had a kid, God provided. New accounts would pop up. There was always something to cover for needs.

It was a humble trust.

We live and many times don’t see the miracles around us that allow for us to live. Mark 8 is a great example.
Yes! So true!

God bless,
Ut
 
Our family has more times than I can count. Some examples are the time my husband received a bonus for attending an out of state school/training. We had planned to used that bonus to do some long wanted yet truly unnecessary home improvements. The day after the bonus hit our bank account my husband’s car broke down. The bonus was the exact amount needed to fix his car. That kind of stuff happens all the time. God is good all the time! We’ve been on trips where we break down in front of hotels and a vacationing mechanic just happens to be there and volunteers to get us moving again. Even given us rides to the auto parts store and on two occasions insisted on paying for the parts. On several occasions we had unexpected guests for dinner when I didn’t have enough food for everyone, but somehow everyone ate until full and we ended up with enough leftovers for lunch the next day.

We don’t always get the things we want but God always assures we have what is truly needed. Praying for your family. If you want specific examples of God providing you can PM me. Many I don’t want to post in an open forum.
LOL! You and I and ffg are in good company! 🙂 We both had money we (or others) wanted allocated to home improvement, but God had other plans.

Its so funny how the providence we experience from God seems to have different priorities than we do. Not do say God never answers prayers directly… but he likes to do so in surprising ways or he will answer needs we didn’t expect to have.

God bless,
Ut
 
We have experienced this many times. We had planned my husband would find a job soon after graduating and it was pressing on 6 months, and we just had our second child. Our plan was for me to stay home and just as I began to feel like I needed to take a job, God provided him with a great job in his field. I’ve also experienced this with things like unexpected bills and also receiving an unexpected gift of money for the same amount of said bill. I absolutely believe all these things happened because of God’s perfect timing.
I love these stories!. Thank you for sharing. 🙂

I wish I could have more peace of mind about God’s providential care. I worry so much about these things. I see some parents of large families who seem to at peace and radiating such joy! I wish I could emulate their attitudes. In fact, I think God is calling me to trust in his providential care more and more.

God bless,
Ut
 
I would avoid becoming a mendicant by any means necessary. This book is a helpful and encouraging resource for those who find themselves in financially challenging circumstances.

amazon.com/Complete-Tightwad-Gazette-Promoting-Alternative/dp/0375752250
I tend to agree. I think there are situations where begging can happen, but I’m not in that position. Those kind people who have posted on this forum who know of people who have had to beg have typically been looking for the next meal. I am nowhere near that point myself.

I’ll check out the book. Thanks for the recommendation.

God bless,
Ut
 
LOL! You and I and ffg are in good company! 🙂 We both had money we (or others) wanted allocated to home improvement, but God had other plans.

Its so funny how the providence we experience from God seems to have different priorities than we do. Not do say God never answers prayers directly… but he likes to do so in surprising ways or he will answer needs we didn’t expect to have.

God bless,
Ut
Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.

~Prov19:21

Each day I believe this more.
 
Thanks Monte RCMS. Good link.

To be honest, if I were to be financially responsible in this day and age, I would have had only three kids instead of the six I already have with another on the way. But, due to our failures at NFP, such is the case. We have not been able to family plan except by total abstinence, which we did on one occasion for over two years.

The current reality we faced is the purchase of a used van to fit our soon to be family of nine. The purchase price was high and we had to refinance our mortgage to access the funds. But its not as though we have 0 equity in the house now. And my retirement savings are on track… which assumes I stay the course for the next 20 years or so without loss of income or job.

But I think there are things we can no longer afford now that we have to cut back on. One of which is the wonderful private catholic school we sent four of our kids to this year. The kids will have to go back into public school. It’s either that or home school. But I don’t think that is for us.

One thing I have learned is that providence will not pay extras we can’t afford. Providence seems to center on essentials. Things like food, shelter, transportation… God wants us to be good stewards of the money we have.

God bless,
Ut
 
To be honest, if I were to be financially responsible in this day and age,
To be honest, I do not perceive myself as a child of this day and age. I have studied too much history from a tender age. I feel like all the pop culture around me is just a deception to convince me to buy consumers products I do not need, without regard for value or price, to impress people I do not like.
I would have had only three kids instead of the six I already have with another on the way. But, due to our failures at NFP, such is the case. We have not been able to family plan except by total abstinence, which we did on one occasion for over two years.
I am not judging you, different strokes for different folks, but our family planning is very different. We fully intend to send as many Catholics into the world as God will allow. Our large and growing family is our primary focus; everything else is of secondary importance to us - the house, cars, retirement, vacations, sports, everything. We have zero interest in NFP, although we have many friends who tell us it is a fine idea.
The current reality we faced is the purchase of a used van to fit our soon to be family of nine. The purchase price was high and we had to refinance our mortgage to access the funds.
I’m sorry to hear that! We bought a used church van a few years ago and the purchase price was dirt cheap because the Methodists did a safety study encouraging all of their ecclesial communities to sell off their church vans. Drivers who are used to speeding in smaller vehicles but who only occasionally drive a 15 passenger van have higher incidences of rollover. On the other hand, several of our friends wanted (and could afford) better - they bought brand new Mercedes vans. Bully for them - but I’m not paying for one! Frankly, I think an older 15 passenger van looks just as sporty as a new one (not at all!).
But its not as though we have 0 equity in the house now.
Even when I have paid off the bank, the government will still own my house. My father owned the land that we were supposed to build on and the government declared eminent domain. They seized his property and burned his houses to the ground. They drained the fish pond and they bulldozed the forest. Then he had to hire attorneys to get half of what it was worth. This was all done to make some extra money for a real estate development company. This experience has colored my perception of the value of real estate. Those houses of gold in the Kingdom are the only ones that last.
And my retirement savings are on track… which assumes I stay the course for the next 20 years or so without loss of income or job.
That’s good, possibly. I know many pensioners. But companies do not offer pensions anymore. Instead we gamble our retirements on the stock market in 401(k) savings programs (in the USA). And the corporations on the stock market are only incented towards short term gains and leftist political adventures. I have worked in a half-dozen Fortune 500 companies and found that their accounting practices were… unsatisfactory. And what will inflation look like when we retire? Will the tax situation become more confiscatory when they realize the amount of money being tapped in those 401(k) accounts? I am inclined to hope that one of my children will be there for me when my retirement savings disappears like Enron.
But I think there are things we can no longer afford now that we have to cut back on. One of which is the wonderful private catholic school we sent four of our kids to this year. The kids will have to go back into public school. It’s either that or home school. But I don’t think that is for us.
If you have a good public school, that is terrific! I went to one. Unfortunately, our local public schools have problems with gangs now. About half of our local public school students do not speak English and there is a lot of violence. After my kindergartner’s life was threatened, we decided to homeschool. The kids love it. With minimal effort, they are years ahead of their peers. Some of my kids are “gifted”, but the public school had a ‘no child let ahead’ policy. Now they are unrestricted and can move ahead in the subjects that hold their fascination. The more ‘average’ students can work on things that interest them as well. They may never learn essential social skills like grinding their groins into their classmates’ buttocks during school dances, but they can make change without using an adding machine, and that’s a good thing. This may not apply in Canada - I hear that things are very nice there.
One thing I have learned is that providence will not pay extras we can’t afford. Providence seems to center on essentials. Things like food, shelter, transportation… God wants us to be good stewards of the money we have.
One thing I have learned is that there are a lot of extras that I can afford that I never knew existed! I am constantly finding more free stuff everywhere. Or cheap. We were taking a walk recently and I just found out that we can watch college baseball practices for free. It was a great afternoon enjoying baseball without all the loudspeaker music of a ‘real’ game. They played a full game and the only shouts you could hear were the players encouraging each other. I loved it. Price: nothing. That’s just one afternoon. I find stuff all of the time: sporting events, concerts, theatre, movies, art exhibits. Most people are too busy to notice.
 
Thanks Monte RCMS. Good link.

To be honest, if I were to be financially responsible in this day and age, I would have had only three kids instead of the six I already have with another on the way. But, due to our failures at NFP, such is the case. We have not been able to family plan except by total abstinence, which we did on one occasion for over two years.

The current reality we faced is the purchase of a used van to fit our soon to be family of nine. The purchase price was high and we had to refinance our mortgage to access the funds. But its not as though we have 0 equity in the house now. And my retirement savings are on track… which assumes I stay the course for the next 20 years or so without loss of income or job.

But I think there are things we can no longer afford now that we have to cut back on. One of which is the wonderful private catholic school we sent four of our kids to this year. The kids will have to go back into public school. It’s either that or home school. But I don’t think that is for us.

One thing I have learned is that providence will not pay extras we can’t afford. Providence seems to center on essentials. Things like food, shelter, transportation… God wants us to be good stewards of the money we have.

God bless,
Ut
There are many things I would like to say but I need to keep it short. We have dr appts today. Always fun you know?

Please stop thinking of your family size and situation as being the result of a failure. We (my husband and I) got over thinking around baby number 5. Our kids are too precious to be the result of a failure of any sort. I think I understand what you mean though.

Catholic school is nice but truly is a luxury. The same results can be achieved in many other ways–public school while homeschooling religion and/or using parish resources is one way that produces good results for many families. Homeschooling is another. There isn’t just one perfect way to teach your children. Get creative while you live out your faith.

Providence can and does provide for many “extras” if we honestly look at life. As a culture we are taught at very young ages that many extras are necessities. We have an income more than $15,0000 per year UNDER the poverty line for our family size. We have a lifestyle that is better than most people in the world could imagine having. We have electricity that works every single day. We have running water. We have a house with heat and ac. We have multiple sets of clothing. We can CHOOSE what we want to eat 3X a day! That in and of itself is a huge luxury! We are so extremely blessed! The list is far to long to actually write down. But yes, we are limited in terms of what blessings God sends to us. We don’t get to unlimited choices. God’s ways are not at all like ours, but He does know what is best. He will provide all we truly need and so much more, but only if we are willing to accept the things He offers. Too often we (humans) fail to see life as we should. That isn’t a failure on God’s end, that sits squarely on our shoulders.
 
To be honest, I do not perceive myself as a child of this day and age. I have studied too much history from a tender age. I feel like all the pop culture around me is just a deception to convince me to buy consumers products I do not need, without regard for value or price, to impress people I do not like.

I am not judging you, different strokes for different folks, but our family planning is very different. We fully intend to send as many Catholics into the world as God will allow. Our large and growing family is our primary focus; everything else is of secondary importance to us - the house, cars, retirement, vacations, sports, everything. We have zero interest in NFP, although we have many friends who tell us it is a fine idea.

I’m sorry to hear that! We bought a used church van a few years ago and the purchase price was dirt cheap because the Methodists did a safety study encouraging all of their ecclesial communities to sell off their church vans. Drivers who are used to speeding in smaller vehicles but who only occasionally drive a 15 passenger van have higher incidences of rollover. On the other hand, several of our friends wanted (and could afford) better - they bought brand new Mercedes vans. Bully for them - but I’m not paying for one! Frankly, I think an older 15 passenger van looks just as sporty as a new one (not at all!).

Even when I have paid off the bank, the government will still own my house. My father owned the land that we were supposed to build on and the government declared eminent domain. They seized his property and burned his houses to the ground. They drained the fish pond and they bulldozed the forest. Then he had to hire attorneys to get half of what it was worth. This was all done to make some extra money for a real estate development company. This experience has colored my perception of the value of real estate. Those houses of gold in the Kingdom are the only ones that last.

That’s good, possibly. I know many pensioners. But companies do not offer pensions anymore. Instead we gamble our retirements on the stock market in 401(k) savings programs (in the USA). And the corporations on the stock market are only incented towards short term gains and leftist political adventures. I have worked in a half-dozen Fortune 500 companies and found that their accounting practices were… unsatisfactory. And what will inflation look like when we retire? Will the tax situation become more confiscatory when they realize the amount of money being tapped in those 401(k) accounts? I am inclined to hope that one of my children will be there for me when my retirement savings disappears like Enron.

If you have a good public school, that is terrific! I went to one. Unfortunately, our local public schools have problems with gangs now. About half of our local public school students do not speak English and there is a lot of violence. After my kindergartner’s life was threatened, we decided to homeschool. The kids love it. With minimal effort, they are years ahead of their peers. Some of my kids are “gifted”, but the public school had a ‘no child let ahead’ policy. Now they are unrestricted and can move ahead in the subjects that hold their fascination. The more ‘average’ students can work on things that interest them as well. They may never learn essential social skills like grinding their groins into their classmates’ buttocks during school dances, but they can make change without using an adding machine, and that’s a good thing. This may not apply in Canada - I hear that things are very nice there.

One thing I have learned is that there are a lot of extras that I can afford that I never knew existed! I am constantly finding more free stuff everywhere. Or cheap. We were taking a walk recently and I just found out that we can watch college baseball practices for free. It was a great afternoon enjoying baseball without all the loudspeaker music of a ‘real’ game. They played a full game and the only shouts you could hear were the players encouraging each other. I loved it. Price: nothing. That’s just one afternoon. I find stuff all of the time: sporting events, concerts, theatre, movies, art exhibits. Most people are too busy to notice.
Very nice post
 
Paganus,
  1. We can’t just will our children to be exemplary Catholics. Whether or not they wind up practicing their faith as adults is going to depend a lot on whether or not we present an attractive vision of the Catholic life.
  2. Unless you have a very unusual living situation, you wouldn’t even be able to take your Catholic children to Mass in the US without paying at least a little attention to your family’s transportation needs. (Our family could walk, but we have an unusual situation for the US.)
Vehicle costs do seem to be a substantial problem for people with moderate incomes and larger-than-minivan-size families as their families grow. I strongly doubt that the OP bought a Mercedes van or anything in that ballpark. I see very few of those on the road as family vehicles and in general very few high-end large vans.
  1. Having a paid-off house as a new retiree is a lot better than not having a paid-off house.
  2. Pensions are every bit as much gambling as a 401(k).
money.usnews.com/money/blogs/planning-to-retire/2010/08/23/the-10-biggest-failed-pension-plans

At least there’s a bit more transparency and control with a 401(k). The primary problem with 401(k)s is not that 401(k)s are risky, but that (for reasons good and bad) people don’t put enough money in them and then frequently pull money out. People just are not saving enough for the number of years of retirement they anticipate:

“If you expect to spend 40 years of your life working, and then another 20 or 30 years living off the money you made during that time, then you need to save a large portion of your salary.”

bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-03/the-401-k-problem-we-refuse-to-solve

Also, the Social Security system is essentially a pension system–which illustrates the basic structural problem with a pension system.
  1. Having lived in an area of the world that had recently suffered hyper-inflation (post-Soviet Russia in the 1995-7), I have some thoughts on hyper-inflation. (A friend at the time told the story of how he went to sea as a sailor with enough money to buy a car in his savings account–when he came back, his savings had turned into just enough to buy a sofa throw.) First of all, inflation is primarily dangerous to people who have fixed incomes (like pensioners) and cash savings (like old school pensioners). People who are currently working and have non-cash assets do a lot better during inflationary conditions or after inflation.
  2. I suggest that nobody ought to expect more financial and other help from their own children than they themselves provide to their own elderly parents.
Also, bear in mind that (if we all pursue your plan) our own children may have very moderate incomes and large families of their own, so they are unlikely to be well-positioned to provide substantial material or practical help to us, their elderly parents.
  1. I have a lot of concerns about homeschooling that involves “minimal effort.”
Also, what happens with homeschooling if mom has any serious health setbacks and the public schools are unacceptable?
 
Hi,

It seems like we have
  • The Providentialists who do not practice any form of NFP and will take the number of kids that come their way trusting in God to provide for their needs. It appears that providentialists come in two camps:
    1. Those who condemn the use of NFP toute court
    2. Those who accept that NFP is a valid option but not one for them.
    3. Those who practice NFP successfully and tend to have family sizes that match what most other people in North America have, which is around three kids.
    4. Those who attempt NFP but fail for whatever reason. These folks either:
      1. have to adopt a providentialist attitude
      2. eventually go against the church’s teachings on contraception and sterilization,
      3. or they abstain.
      I am an NFP failure who is attempting to take on the attitudes of a providentialist. But what does relying on God’s providence look like? How do I best serve the needs of my kids? How do I deal with my parents who are ashamed of my irresponsible behavior (in their view that is)?

      And there is also the fact that I know many providentialists… and I know that their lives are not a bed of roses. I know a family of 10 where the spouses divorced and their kids have drug problems, one is in jail. I know another family of 9 where children’s aid sometimes raids their house. They have cooperated as best they can with the children’s aid workers and so far their kids have not been taken away from them, but in Canada, all it takes is someone to phone children’s aid, and suddenly they they interviewing your kids and asking you when you are going to start taking contraception or getting sterilized.

      This is the reality of big families now. And in the province where I live, they just passed legislation that would effectively give the province the power to take away our kids if we follow the church’s teachings against gay marriage, transgenderism, and so on… and guess who their number one target will end up being? That freaky family with the 15 passenger van.

      So what does providence look like in these circumstances? Providence did not stop that mother of seven kids in Maccabees from having all her kids slaughtered for not worshiping Zeus. Providence does not win you the lottery. Providence does not remove the crosses in one’s life or ensure that all the kids will end up good and faithful Catholics with bright and promising futures… Just ask Jacob what happened to his kids.

      Xantippe and Paganus, I appreciate your responses. I want to be more like you Paganus, but a lot of the issues that Xantippe raises seem pretty valid to me. There must be a way of being responsible as a parent and yet trusting that God will provide for our needs in such a way that does not force us to compromise our faith…

      God bless,
      Ut
 
Hi Bitterhope - I always appreciate your responses. Thank you!
There are many things I would like to say but I need to keep it short. We have dr appts today. Always fun you know?

Please stop thinking of your family size and situation as being the result of a failure. We (my husband and I) got over thinking around baby number 5. Our kids are too precious to be the result of a failure of any sort. I think I understand what you mean though.
Agreed. I love all my kids. I am blessed to have them. But there are those passages in the Catechism and in other documents about responsibly planning your family size that cause me anxiety. I want to be as good a parent as I can.
Catholic school is nice but truly is a luxury. The same results can be achieved in many other ways–public school while homeschooling religion and/or using parish resources is one way that produces good results for many families. Homeschooling is another. There isn’t just one perfect way to teach your children. Get creative while you live out your faith.
True. I think the year they spent at the school will remain with them for a long time. I am glad they had that. We will continue educating our kids as best we can in the faith even though they go to a public school.
Providence can and does provide for many “extras” if we honestly look at life. As a culture we are taught at very young ages that many extras are necessities. We have an income more than $15,0000 per year UNDER the poverty line for our family size. We have a lifestyle that is better than most people in the world could imagine having. We have electricity that works every single day. We have running water. We have a house with heat and ac. We have multiple sets of clothing. We can CHOOSE what we want to eat 3X a day! That in and of itself is a huge luxury! We are so extremely blessed! The list is far to long to actually write down. But yes, we are limited in terms of what blessings God sends to us. We don’t get to unlimited choices. God’s ways are not at all like ours, but He does know what is best. He will provide all we truly need and so much more, but only if we are willing to accept the things He offers. Too often we (humans) fail to see life as we should. That isn’t a failure on God’s end, that sits squarely on our shoulders.
150 thousand a year? That is pretty good! Or did you mean 15 thousand?

But I agree. It is about accepting what God gives us rather than imposing our expectations on him. For example, baby 7 is not due until September. And yet I felt it was important to get the 15 passenger van now. Perhaps I should have waited on God to provide. And sometimes I feel like we pass up providential moments because of our preconceived notions about what we need at the moment.

Anyway, thanks again for posting. I appreciate it greatly.

God bless,
Ut
 
There must be a way of being responsible as a parent and yet trusting that God will provide for our needs in such a way that does not force us to compromise our faith…
These aren’t mutually exclusive. One can make responsible decisions about finances, allocation of resourses, and yes, even family size without compromising one’s faith. The problem arises when a.) materialism is masquerading as financial responsibility or b.) holiness is solely measured by the number of kids one has.
 
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