Where are the apologetics!?!?!?

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I’ve been trying to find Catholic apologetics on Wicca, new age the occult but all I can find is Protestant material…

Seriously why is it the Protestants are the only ones to step up to this!?
 
Yeesh. Now that I’ve read it, it’s not what you were after. My apologies.

Dante
 
I’ve been trying to find Catholic apologetics on Wicca, new age the occult but all I can find is Protestant material…
Try St. Joseph Communications - they have at least two CDs on this subject (one of them is a conversion story from Wicca to the Catholic Church).

Also, look for the writings of Father Gabriel Amorth - he goes on at quite some length on this subject. His book An Exorcist Tells His Story is especially interesting.
 
Yeesh. Now that I’ve read it, it’s not what you were after. My apologies.

Dante
Be greatful ya didn’t read the others!? On the front page alone we got an Ex-Catholic now Wiccan. How to be a Catholic Witch and I’m sure I saw an article say Catholics ARE pagans…
Try St. Joseph Communications - they have at least two CDs on this subject (one of them is a conversion story from Wicca to the Catholic Church).

Also, look for the writings of Father Gabriel Amorth - he goes on at quite some length on this subject. His book An Exorcist Tells His Story is especially interesting.
Thanks man, soon as I get some cash I’ll order those. This is however my point. Why are we Catholics not stepping up? The Protestants have at list three ministries that are countering the Occult where are our Catholic Apologietics at?

Why arnt there any?

Kinda reminds me of the Passion. God handed the Church an evganlistation oppurtunity… But it was the Protestants that stepped up.
 
Yup. The great failing of the Catholic Church----not having a Counter-Wiccan Online Apologetics Team.

Should we have an official source for every crackpot thing that comes floating down the river? No offense, brother, but…how hard could it be?
 
Yup. The great failing of the Catholic Church----not having a Counter-Wiccan Online Apologetics Team.

Should we have an official source for every crackpot thing that comes floating down the river? No offense, brother, but…how hard could it be?
Dude. WAKE UP! Wicca is the largest and fastest growing form of the Occult today. A large chunk of it is made up of Catholics that where never taught properly. Have you seen all the “Wiccan Book of Hours”? Or books filled with Wiccan sacraments.

These people are desperate for the truth. An before you make comments about better Cathis. I remind you there are also Wiccans that where Protestants and just about everything else. You got people raised Wiccan now…

Maybe you don’t wanna go sharing Christ with this people. But ya know it’s sorta commanded on us to go out there and teach…

Most Pagans I know are beside themselves when I explain what we do as not just being “the Catholic thing to do” but that there is a method to it all. There is a reason for buring sacramentals, that this an that prayer have reaons and rich histories.

An I’m just an Catechumen turned Elect. I’m sure you’ve been in the faith longer than me. What could YOU tell this people?
 
An other thing. It’s not just the Wiccans. The New Age, the Occult, Hindus, Buddhists. I can find next to nouthing besides stories of ex-Catholics that went over to this or that faith…
 
One of the big problems with apologetics for wiccans is that the term covers a very broad range of beliefs. The Wiccan creed (or reed or rede or something, I’m sorry I honestly cannot remember) is something like “That it harms none, do what thou wilt” or something similar. There are then hundreds of different ways one can do ‘magick’ and cast spells, hundreds of faces to their gods, some may not beleive in a diety and only in spirits. To counter each and every belief would basically be the same as going door to door, asking people what they believe about the occult, and then making a website or book about it. Maybe they planned it that way. 😛

If you’re talking with a wiccan then rather than use online apologetics (which do come in very handy for dealing with protestant churches that have official stances or general things such as the existance of God or sola scriptura) then you first need to find out what exactly this person believes.
 
One of the big problems with apologetics for wiccans is that the term covers a very broad range of beliefs. The Wiccan creed (or reed or rede or something, I’m sorry I honestly cannot remember) is something like “That it harms none, do what thou wilt” or something similar. There are then hundreds of different ways one can do ‘magick’ and cast spells, hundreds of faces to their gods, some may not beleive in a diety and only in spirits. To counter each and every belief would basically be the same as going door to door, asking people what they believe about the occult, and then making a website or book about it. Maybe they planned it that way. 😛

If you’re talking with a wiccan then rather than use online apologetics (which do come in very handy for dealing with protestant churches that have official stances or general things such as the existance of God or sola scriptura) then you first need to find out what exactly this person believes.
All I can say mate is this. The Protestants have no problem doing it…

An dispite what you may think there are indeed fundimentals running through the Pagan community.

Still whining about this isn’t gonna fix it. So how do I a layman and a Catechumen now Elect do to make it better?
 
How many of those protestant apologetics are quotes from the Bible that show witchcraft is bad? That’s not going to help you much, seeing as how they don’t beleive in our Bible, and furthermore they oftentimes get Bible verses shoved down their throats in a most Un-Christianlike manner so the Bible turns many of them off.

But you’re right. Where there’s a will there’s a way. I go back to what I said before. You have to befriend them. But do not befriend them just to ‘save’ them. Leave that to the evangelicals. You have to honestly care about the person. Find out what they believe, and make sure, quite firmly, that they know you don’t believe in it. Whenever the topic of religion or spirituality comes up, defend your side and ask them questions about theirs so that you know where they are coming from, and then show them why they are wrong without using Christian references (at least at first). To be honest, if you counter Secular Humanism, you’ve got a lot of wiccan’s countered right there, so look into apologetics against secular humanism. Watching movies that talk about exorcism or similar crossovers between our religions would probably be beneficial to bringing up the topic.

And that’s a start. Keep in mind I too am an Elect.
 
My point is----Know your faith.

You don’t need some official website for every piece of doodoo that comes down the pike. From what you’ve said, they seem to copy the Church in it’s practices. Know your faith. Know your Church. Doesn’t seem that difficult to be able to put yourself in a position to ably inform the dozens of people joining each year around the world. Now—just to find them…
 
Fr Mitch Pacwa and Johnette Bencovic on EWTN are two of the most prominent Catholic apologists who speak forcefully and accurately to wicca and new age bunk in general, try that website.
 
Fr Mitch Pacwa and Johnette Bencovic on EWTN are two of the most prominent Catholic apologists who speak forcefully and accurately to wicca and new age bunk in general, try that website.
Thanks Leannie…

I admit this issue is near an dear to my heart. It saddens me that some Catholics (No don’t necessarily mean here) just refuse to take the threat of new age spirtuality seriously…
 
I’ve always taken it seriously; I know a lot of Wiccans. And I agree that there are a lot of ex-Catholics among them, although there are a lot of ex- and badly taught Christians of many denominations, too. And to make things more confusing, a lot of Wiccans attend at the Unitarians, which the Unitarians are all for. And of course, not everybody who does pagan or witch-themed religion is even Wiccan.

The problem is that, as various commenters have said, the beliefs are so various. Some people are open about their beliefs; others are oathsworn not to talk much about them. Some people think magic really works and gets results, some think it’s just really powerful prayer, and still others just think it’s spiritual and has no outward effects. Theology? Nothing consistent. Some think the whole thing came down from antiquity, while others are totally okay with the idea that a weird English guy made it all up from bits and pieces of better and worse things.

The thing is – and I’m spectacularly bad at understanding this sort of thing – that most of the occult religions seem to appeal not through the mind, but through the heart and body. People want something strange and old and different and mysterious, people want to have a deep mystical experience of God; and people want to have power if they don’t have a call and a purpose. They want some kind of justification for their sex lives. They want to feel a sense of belonging, or of being part of an insider group if that’s denied. They also want to understand and to know. They want a life with seasonal rhythms and prayers for all occasions. They seek these things (some good, some just human) in all kinds of crazy places.

I too think they really want to be Catholic. But how to help them get there? sigh

I think that logical argument is probably secondary to converting Wiccans. Useful, yes, but not as useful as “We are a group of Catholics who are nice people and who truly believe in God. We are serious about what we believe, and about how we worship. Spend some time with us.” I suspect that if there were more groups like this (kindly ones, maybe not easily shocked), that you would see more “pagans” joining the Catholic Church, or even that you would see fewer people joining pagan groups in the first place.

However, there are a lot of apologetics against Protestant or anti-Catholic ideas which will probably come in handy with Wiccans. Stuff like “Mary is a pagan goddess, really, and Catholics stole the pagan gods – oh, wait, no, they cruelly suppressed them and oppressed the people” are common. The Crusades seem to come up with monotonous regularity. Female ordination is an issue, unless you’re dealing with one of the single-sex priesthood variants. Communion not being cannibalism comes up. And so on.

It’s the atheists and agnostics who seem to want to have an argument about every detail of the Bible or Catholic practice. Wiccans want to believe that differences don’t really matter, and tend to want to claim that “we do the same thing, but it means more” or “little do you know who you’re really worshipping” if they like you. They will feel that you are one of the few Christians who is a good person and tell you so… Like atheists, they are often profoundly scarred by bad experiences with people claiming to be religious who were hypocrites or just plain cruel. Otherwise, they’ve experienced a lot of religion they felt was empty and untrue, they never got any religious training to speak of, all their religious training was New Age-y, or they’ve had a profound religious experience which they interpreted as pagan. (Or which was demonic and intended to mislead them – but don’t jump to that conclusion. For a lot of people, becoming pagan is getting closer to God than they were before. It’s sad.)

I’m one of those persons who’s a lot better at describing what I see than figuring out how to deal with it. I probably could enumerate every way I’ve messed up apologetics to Wiccans, though! 😦
 
All I can say mate is this. The Protestants have no problem doing it…
Possibly because Protestants don’t mind setting up stereotypes and straw men, and then arguing with those, instead of with real ideas.
Still whining about this isn’t gonna fix it. So how do I a layman and a Catechumen now Elect do to make it better?
Get off his duff and get hold of the resources that I pointed out to you, earlier in this thread. 😉

St. Joseph Communications gives their CDs away for free, and the works of Father Amorth are available at the library.
 
Possibly because Protestants don’t mind setting up stereotypes and straw men, and then arguing with those, instead of with real ideas.
An unnecessary cheap shot. You can do better than that.
 
Try the Good News Ministry site. The woman who runs this ministry used to be involved in the occult for many years, before becoming a Catholic. She has many good insights into new age/occult religions, and she is very good at Catholic apologetics. Here is one link to an article, but if you go to the site and do a search for “occult” or “new age,” a whole plethora of articles comes up.

wordbytes.org/occult/newage.htm
 
Fr Mitch Pacwa and Johnette Bencovic on EWTN are two of the most prominent Catholic apologists who speak forcefully and accurately to wicca and new age bunk in general, try that website.
Fr. Mitch Pacwa also has a book called “Catholicism and the New Age,” which covers many different things, from Tarot to Enneagrams[sic], etc. That would be a good place to start to bone up on your knowledge to defend the Church.

Once, I got into a conversation with a Wiccan. Basically, the conversation revolved around and around, around and around, basically going nowhere. I was dizzy from the conversation. People can be so stuck in their beliefs. However, Christ did tell the Apostles, as well as all of us to “Go out and make disciples of all nations,” but what are we to do if some people will not hear our message? Force conversion? Murder? No, of course not. We’re to “rise up and shake the dust from our sandals.”

Basically, the only thing, and the absolute most powerful thing, we can do for these people is pray. Pray for their souls. Pray for the Holy Spirit to break through the cloud of noise filling their minds and open their hearts and minds to the Way, the Truth, and the Life; our Lord Jesus Christ. Really, that’s all you can do.

Dominus vobsicum
 
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