Where are the Bible verses to back up baby sprinkling?

[SHW]

Christian baptism didn’t even exist when these words were spoken to Nicodemus…think.

John the Baptist was already baptizing with water for repentance for people’s personal sins.

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Jesus’ Sacrament of Baptism baptizes for the remission of sins, both Original Sin which we inherited from Adam which made us God’s enemies (Romans 5) and also the personal sins that we have on our souls at the time of our baptisms.

Acts 19:3-5
And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Even though they had already been baptized with water by John as a baptism for repentance of their sins, it did not remove their sins.

It was not until Jesus died on the cross that the baptism with water was for the remission of sins. And, this is why Paul insisted that they be baptized again. They needed to be re-baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (the name of the Lord Jesus).

John 19:34
But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.

1 John 5:6
This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.

The merits of Jesus’ blood sacrifice are applied to our souls through the water of baptism. This removes both Original Sin and personal sins from our souls and we are sanctified and justified. 1 Corinthians 6:11

Blood and water are both needed for the remission of sins. Baptism by “water and the word” makes us born again and we become Christ’s disciples through baptism.

Ephesians 5:26
that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,

What is this “word?”

Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 

[SHW]

What must one do to be saved? Look at Ezek 36 starting at verse 25, this is the “water” that the Jewish leader would have thought of and it is the picture of salvation.

Then look at this, the purification of sin by water by god would have also went through his head.
Numbers 19:9-10 Now a man who is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer and deposit them outside the camp in a clean place, and the congregation of the sons of Israel shall keep it as water to remove impurity; it is purification from sin. 10 `The one who gathers the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening; and it shall be a perpetual statute to the sons of Israel and to the alien who sojourns among them.

You can read before and after those and it is quite interesting.

Purification and sin offerings were for purification of personal sins only and not for Adam’s sin/Original Sin. Nothing except the Blood of Jesus could atone for Adam’s sin and reconcile us to God so that we may have hope of eternal life when we die.

What does “hope of eternal life” mean?

We are not guaranteed eternal life by baptism. We must still do the Father’s will and obey His commandments until we die in order to actually inherit eternal life.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness (disobey commandments)!’

Matthew 19:16-19
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Perhaps you missed earlier posts which quoted some of the Early Church Fathers who lived in the first 200-300 years of Christianity.

Infants were indeed baptized. “Pouring” has always been an accepted method of baptizing.

Here are some examples:The Didache

Fire? What? Are you going to be baptized with fire? I am not. I have been immersed into Christ and it wasn’t through water, which does not remove sin according to Scripture. Only God can remove sin and He used the cross of Christ to do it. Salvation 101.

Luke 3:16
John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Mark 1:8
I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

baptisma = Baptism = "immersion, submersion " From the Root “baptizō” = to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge

baptizō = Baptized = “to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge; to overwhelm”
From the Root “baptō” = to dip, dip in, immerse

Not to be confused with 907, baptizo. The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be ‘dipped’ (bapto) into boiling water and then ‘baptised’ (baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.

e.g. Mark 16:16. ‘He that believes and is baptised shall be saved’. Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle! This is “immersed into union with Christ”; no water this is the Holy Spirit baptism, which seals the believer into Christ till the day of ones redemption.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

John the Baptist was already baptizing with water for repentance for people’s personal sins.

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Jesus’ Sacrament of Baptism baptizes for the remission of sins, both Original Sin which we inherited from Adam which made us God’s enemies (Romans 5) and also the personal sins that we have on our souls at the time of our baptisms.

Acts 19:3-5
And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Even though they had already been baptized with water by John as a baptism for repentance of their sins, it did not remove their sins.

It was not until Jesus died on the cross that the baptism with water was for the remission of sins. And, this is why Paul insisted that they be baptized again. They needed to be re-baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (the name of the Lord Jesus).

John 19:34
But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.

1 John 5:6
This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.

The merits of Jesus’ blood sacrifice are applied to our souls through the water of baptism. This removes both Original Sin and personal sins from our souls and we are sanctified and justified. 1 Corinthians 6:11

Blood and water are both needed for the remission of sins. Baptism by “water and the word” makes us born again and we become Christ’s disciples through baptism.

Ephesians 5:26
that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,

What is this “word?”

Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

You are proving the point that water does not save; what is the Word? It is not water; the washing of the word is used as a sanctification; wanna be sanctified? then read and study the Word of God called the Scripture which we refer to as the Bible. Apart from that you will not be sanctified. John 17:17 (Jesus speaking) “Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.” In the use of Ephesains 5:26 the “word” the Holy Spirit, the true Baptism and the One who leads and guides each Christian into the truth. You cannot earn you way to heaven via rites, rituals nor traditions; it is the power of God working in and through the believer via the Trinity and primarily the holy Spirit; otherwise you have not “denied self”, much less picked up your cross nor following Him.

Time is short, the catching away of the church is closer than anyone thinks and many who profess Christ will be left behind. The signs of this age and the writing on the wall are evident of the things of the tribulation as Jesus made us aware of in Matthew and Revelation.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Purification and sin offerings were for purification of personal sins only and not for Adam’s sin/Original Sin. Nothing except the Blood of Jesus could atone for Adam’s sin and reconcile us to God so that we may have hope of eternal life when we die.

What does “hope of eternal life” mean?

We are not guaranteed eternal life by baptism. We must still do the Father’s will and obey His commandments until we die in order to actually inherit eternal life.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness (disobey commandments)!’

Matthew 19:16-19
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Why are you unable to put the conversation of nicdemus and Jesus in context; he was a Jewish leader and authority and knew the OT like the back of his hand; he would not of thought of water baptism, but the purification of sins (water) and Jesus said by water and “spirit”. What Spirit? The Holy Spirit received at the moment one sins are remitted by God, way before and water baptism…think think think

 

[mclr_1397]

Is it true that the Sacrement of Baptism was meant only for Jewish converts to Christianity? My Mother in law believes that all but the sacrement of marriage was not meant for the gentiles. I hope this is not true…

 

[SHW]

Fire? What? Are you going to be baptized with fire? I am not. I have been immersed into Christ and it wasn’t through water, which does not remove sin according to Scripture. Only God can remove sin and He used the cross of Christ to do it. Salvation 101.

You were the one who stated:

Baptism means to “immerse into” and you will not find any place in Scripture where infants are baptized nor the first 2-3oo years of church history. What ever Scripture you receive, just insert infant and that is how you will have it in Scripture. You must insert it into Scripture.

My point is when a person is baptized with fire, he is not literally immersed into the fire so baptism does not always mean to be “immersed into.”

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

You said:

Baptism always represents an object/person going into the water or in many cases Christ; not water being poured on top of a person. Funny; I was just studying this subject last night.

If you read the places in Scripture and substitute the word “immersion” or “immersed” where you see the word baptized or baptism; it opens up new understanding and thought.

Baptism does not always represent an object/person going into the water; and it does sometimes mean that water is poured on a person’s forehead.

I pointed this out by quotes from the ECF:

The Didache

After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. If you have no living water, then baptize in other water, and if you are not able in cold, then in warm. If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Before baptism, let the one baptizing and the one to be baptized fast, as also any others who are able. Command the one who is to be baptized to fast beforehand for one or two days (Didache 7:1 [ca. **A.D. 70

]).

Most people did not have a large quantity of clean water available for immersion. Saul/Paul was baptized in a person’s home.

Acts 9:17-19
And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. 19 So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus.

e.g. Mark 16:16. ‘He that believes and is baptised shall be saved’. Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle! This is “immersed into union with Christ”; no water this is the Holy Spirit baptism, which seals the believer into Christ till the day of ones redemption.

I agree with you that mere intellectual assent is not enough. “Believes” is an action word. “Believe” means to “obey” the gospel which means to obey God’s commandments.

Here is an example of this concept:

Hebrews 3:18-19
And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

 

[SHW]

You are proving the point that water does not save; what is the Word? It is not water; the washing of the word is used as a sanctification; wanna be sanctified? then read and study the Word of God called the Scripture which we refer to as the Bible. Apart from that you will not be sanctified. John 17:17 (Jesus speaking) “Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.” In the use of Ephesains 5:26 the “word” the Holy Spirit, the true Baptism and the One who leads and guides each Christian into the truth.

You misunderstand. The “washing of water by the word” refers to literal water being used to baptize while the words “I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” is said at the same time as the immersion into water or the pouring of water on the forehead.

Ephesians 5:26
that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,

**This is done at Jesus’ command so that we can become His disciples. **

Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

We become His disciples through water Baptism. These special words must be used - “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” in order for it to be a valid Baptism.

1 Peter 3:20-22
in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Peter is comparing Noah’s being saved through the flood water to us being saved through the water of Baptism.

Baptism now saves us. This Baptism “water” is not the same as the water that people use to take a bath in order to cleanse the body of dirt and sweat. This Baptism with water instead cleanses our souls (sanctifies us). It takes away all our sins and gives us a good conscience towards God which means that we have been reconciled to Him spiritually. Baptism regenerates us spiritually.

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

This washing (Baptism) regenerates us spiritually because the power of the Holy Spirit renews our souls (takes away/removes all the sins, both Adam’s and our own) and thereby makes our souls holy (sanctified) and this makes us born again and we become disciples of Jesus.

John 3:5, 7
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God…7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

This is describing (the Sacrament of) Baptism. So is the following:

1 Corinthians 6:11
But you were washed (baptized), but you were sanctified (made holy), but you were justified (saved) in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

The water of Baptism applies the merits of Jesus’ Blood sacrifice on the cross to our souls and this takes away our sins, both Adam’s Original Sin which caused us to become enemies of God and also all of our own personal sins that are on our souls at the time of our Baptisms. It is this cleansing by Baptism which gives us a good conscience towards God because Baptism reconciles us to God spiritually and we then have hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:7
that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[SHW]

Why are you unable to put the conversation of nicdemus and Jesus in context; he was a Jewish leader and authority and knew the OT like the back of his hand; he would not of thought of water baptism, but the purification of sins (water) and Jesus said by water and “spirit”. What Spirit? The Holy Spirit received at the moment one sins are remitted by God, way before and water baptism…think think think

Jesus claims (Matthew 28:19) that the normal way to become His disciples is to become water baptized with these words, “I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

This is also what the early Christians believed.

Justin Martyr

As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father… and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, "Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).

It is best to do as Jesus commanded.

 

[SHW]

Is it true that the Sacrement of Baptism was meant only for Jewish converts to Christianity? My Mother in law believes that all but the sacrement of marriage was not meant for the gentiles. I hope this is not true…

No, all the gentiles still needed to be water baptized even though the Holy Spirit had already baptized some of them with fire.

The Holy Spirit baptized some of the Gentiles with fire first before water baptism in order for God to more clearly show Peter and the other Jewish converts to the Way/Christianity that the Gentiles were to become Jesus’ followers also. The Jewish converts had originally thought that they were the only people who were chosen to be saved.

Normally, people are baptized with water first and then confirmed in the faith with the baptism of the Holy Spirit with fire. This order was reversed in order to more clearly show Peter and the converted Jews that the Gentiles were to be admitted to the Way. Christianity was first called the “Way.” (Acts 9:1-2) Later, members of the Way came to be known as Christians (Acts 11:26) Jesus stated, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” John 14:6

Acts 10:44-48
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Peter commanded that the Gentiles be baptized in the name of the Lord. (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)

All persons have equal dignity as Christians.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[SHW]

You cannot earn you way to heaven via rites, rituals nor traditions; it is the power of God working in and through the believer via the Trinity and primarily the holy Spirit; otherwise you have not “denied self”, much less picked up your cross nor following Him.

You pick up your cross and follow Him by obeying His Church. He only founded one Church and He founded it upon Peter and the apostles and also the prophets. Matthew 16:18-19

Ephesians 2:19-22
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

**Jesus works in us to perfect us (Romans 12:1) when we choose to follow Him until our deaths. We follow Him by obeying His Church because She (His Bride) has been given His authority to rule spiritually on earth. Hebrews 13:17, 2 Corinthians 13:10

His Church’s teachings** (both oral and **written **2 Thessalonians 2:15) and Her mysteries/sacraments 1 Corinthians 4:1 are safeguarded by His Bishops who are successors of the Apostles. “Peter’s” successor is the present bishop of Rome whom we have nicknamed “pope” which stands for spiritual “papa” or father. 1 Corinthians 4:15, 2 Timothy 2:2

1 Timothy 3:15
I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The Church is the foundation and support of the truth. Jesus promised to be with His Church always until He returns at the end of the age (Second Coming). This does not mean that individual bishops and priests cannot sin. They can and do sin and many will be in hell forever for denying Christ by their evil works and not repenting before death. God shows no partiality, so if persons fall away from the faith by sinning, then they all reap what they sow. Acts 10:34-35, Galatians 6:7-9
**
The Church uses Scripture to help teach the gospel of Christ.** 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Jesus promises to be with His Church always and this means that His Church will never teach error regarding faith and morals. John 16:13, Matthew 28:18-20

Hebrews 12:22-24
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, (all these refer to the Church) to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 10:24-25
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

We must obey His Church.

Jesus states this about His Church which is headed by His apostles/bishops:

Luke 10:16
He who hears you (CHURCH) hears Me, he who rejects you (CHURCH) rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”

We must obey His Church’s leaders headed by the pope who has possession of the keys of the kingdom of heaven. The Church speaks for Christ. Only the Church with Peter’s keys is the true Church of Christ.

Matthew 16:18-19
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And** I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven**, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Matthew 18:17
And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But** if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector**.

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.

 

[SHW]

Time is short, the catching away of the church is closer than anyone thinks and many who profess Christ will be left behind. The signs of this age and the writing on the wall are evident of the things of the tribulation as Jesus made us aware of in Matthew and Revelation.

Jesus does not return to take His Church to heaven before the Great Tribulation. This type of Rapture is not Scriptural.

Jesus only returns once more and it is on the day of His Second Coming which is also called the Day of the Lord, Day of Judgment, Last Day, Day, that day, Judgment of the Great Day, trumpet of God, [last trumpet](1 Corinthians 15:52), His appearing, appear a second time, great white throne judgment, etc. These all speak of Jesus’ Second Coming and on this same day is Judgment for all.

If interested, please see the following for a Scriptural explanation of the Rapture:
members.cox.net/studyhisword/RaptureExplained.pdf

 

[SHW]

Water baptism is the normal means that our Lord commanded in order for us to be cleansed of Adam’s sin and be reconciled to God.

There were many righteous persons in OT times such as Noah, Abraham, and Job Ezek 14:19-20; but they could not enter into heaven after their deaths until after Jesus died on the cross and atoned for Adam’s sin. No man nor his work could ever atone for Adam’s sin which alienated all of us from God. Only Jesus’ sacrificial death/blood sacrifice could atone for Adam’s sin. This is why He is called the One Mediator 1 Timothy 2:3-7. After His death, He then re-opened the gates of heaven so that all the righteous who had died before His own death on the cross could finally enter into heaven.

These OT righteous were waiting in a place of comfort which Jesus called “Abraham’s bosom” which the Church also calls Limbo. Jesus’ sacrifice freed them from Original Sin and these OT righteous were then allowed to enter into heaven. Luke 16:22-26

However, under the NT covenant, we are each cleansed from Adam’s sin through the water of Baptism and we thereby become Jesus’ disciples and we then have hope of eternal life. (Matthew 28:19) **After Baptism, we must continue in the faith/continue to obey God’s commandments if we desire to inherit eternal life. **Mat 19:17 Rev 22:14 We have hope of eternal life after Baptism Titus 3:7, we do not have a guarantee of eternal life after Baptism.

OSAS is not Scriptural. Jesus reconciles us to God through Baptism, but we must remain faithful to Him (do His Father’s will and obey His commandments) for our entire lives if we desire to inherit eternal life after we die.

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work. Mat 10:33

Heb 10:26-31
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2 Thes 1:7-8
when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Obedience to God’s commandments until death is required of us in order to inherit eternal life. If we willfully sin after we become Jesus’ disciples/followers, then we lose our salvation. 2 Peter 2:20 We are then worse off than if we had never been saved in the first place.

Jesus went and preached to the souls in prison (purgatory) during His three days in the grave.

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Those persons who had still not paid what was fully owed for their own personal sins were still in purgatory or as Paul called it “prison.” This prison came to be known as Purgatory because this is the place that sinners went to after death until their sins were fully purged from their souls.

**
Every personal sin must be atoned for before we are pure enough to enter heaven. **

Luke 12:58-59
When you go with your adversary to the magistrate, make every effort along the way to settle with him, lest he drag you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I tell you, you shall not depart from there till you have paid the very last mite.”

Matthew 18:34
And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

Colossians 3:23-25
And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ. 25 But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is no partiality.

It is best to atone for our personal sins while we are on earth. Acts 10:2, Acts 24:16-17

 

[Leslie_Polley]

The baptised infant is free to grow up and refuse confirmation or communion or convert to Zoroastrianism and fall away Or grow in faith under parents made even more possible by the grace and knowledge of his/her baptism and parents faith.

Was Jesus asked out about his circumcision and blessing on his 8th day?

No it was Jewish law, so he was circumcised. He was not baptised until he was thirty and walked into the water himself.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

John the Baptist was already baptizing with water for repentance for people’s personal sins.

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Jesus’ Sacrament of Baptism baptizes for the remission of sins, both Original Sin which we inherited from Adam which made us God’s enemies (Romans 5) and also the personal sins that we have on our souls at the time of our baptisms.

Acts 19:3-5
And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Even though they had already been baptized with water by John as a baptism for repentance of their sins, it did not remove their sins.

It was not until Jesus died on the cross that the baptism with water was for the remission of sins. And, this is why Paul insisted that they be baptized again. They needed to be re-baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (the name of the Lord Jesus).

John 19:34
But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.

1 John 5:6
This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.

The merits of Jesus’ blood sacrifice are applied to our souls through the water of baptism. This removes both Original Sin and personal sins from our souls and we are sanctified and justified. 1 Corinthians 6:11

Blood and water are both needed for the remission of sins. Baptism by “water and the word” makes us born again and we become Christ’s disciples through baptism.

Ephesians 5:26
that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,

What is this “word?”

Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Are just parroting the rest as far as i see it? One day you will know with certainty that water Baptism proved to be in vain as far as washing away any sin.

It is the imputation of Jesus righteousness that saves a person from the moment they put their life in His hands on the basis of total self denial and faith or trusting in Him alone. No water, infusion of “sanctifying grace” by a rite or a ceremony or any other work will ever unite a person to Jesus Christ; it is all of God and that sanctifying Grace comes in full measure to each person at the moment they were saved. God continues to give us favor as we move throughout our lives and in His patience and mercy has graced the unbelieving world; for only a season.

Here is the proof from Gods eternal perspective
Romans 8:30. Look at it and see.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Purification and sin offerings were for purification of personal sins only and not for Adam’s sin/Original Sin. Nothing except the Blood of Jesus could atone for Adam’s sin and reconcile us to God so that we may have hope of eternal life when we die.

the point is the conversation with Nicodemus and Jesus, born of “water” and “spirit” to enter the kingdom. Water is the purification ceremony in Numbers and repeated in Ezek, which Nicodemus would have been thinking, meaning by your repentance you will be made clean and you will receive the HS of promise. This is the born-again Christian. The washing of regeneration another act of God - Titus 3:5
What does “hope of eternal life” mean?

We are not guaranteed eternal life by baptism. We must still do the Father’s will and obey His commandments until we die in order to actually inherit eternal life.

i f one is immersed into Christ via the Holy Spirit, then one is guaranteed eternal life 1 John 5:13 among others.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness

(disobey commandments)!’

Matthew 19:16-19
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Blessing to you in your religious walk with the Church.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Is it true that the Sacrement of Baptism was meant only for Jewish converts to Christianity? My Mother in law believes that all but the sacrement of marriage was not meant for the gentiles. I hope this is not true…

Water baptism is an ordinance or command, not a sacrament in my Biblical worldview.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

You were the one who stated:

My point is when a person is baptized with fire, he is not literally immersed into the fire so baptism does not always mean to be “immersed into.”

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

You said:

Baptism does not always represent an object/person going into the water; and it does sometimes mean that water is poured on a person’s forehead.

I pointed this out by quotes from the ECF:

Most people did not have a large quantity of clean water available for immersion. Saul/Paul was baptized in a person’s home.

Acts 9:17-19
And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. 19 So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus.

I agree with you that mere intellectual assent is not enough. “Believes” is an action word. “Believe” means to “obey” the gospel which means to obey God’s commandments.

Here is an example of this concept:

Hebrews 3:18-19
And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

As I said, look at the meanings of the words; to pour over is not the meaning; I understand that if there was a lack of water that pouring was obviously the exception, which get us back to the hearts intent before God, If one’s heart content before God that water will remove sin of any kind, then God will see that as viewing the work on the cross as insufficient and He will not be pleased; from my Biblical worldview.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

You misunderstand. The “washing of water by the word” refers to literal water being used to baptize while the words “I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” is said at the

Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

We become His disciples through water Baptism. These special words must be used - “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” in order for it to be a valid Baptism.

1 Peter 3:20-22
in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Peter is comparing Noah’s being saved through the flood water to us being saved through the water of Baptism.

Baptism now saves us. This Baptism “water” is not the same as the water that people use to take a bath in order to cleanse the body of dirt and sweat. This Baptism with water instead cleanses our souls (sanctifies us). It takes away all our sins and gives us a good conscience towards God which means that we have been reconciled to Him spiritually. Baptism regenerates us spiritually.

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

This washing (Baptism) regenerates us spiritually because the power of the Holy Spirit renews our souls (takes away/removes all the sins, both Adam’s and our own) and thereby makes our souls holy (sanctified) and this makes us born again and we become disciples of Jesus.

John 3:5, 7
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God…7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

This is describing (the Sacrament of) Baptism. So is the following:

1 Corinthians 6:11
But you were washed (baptized), but you were sanctified (made holy), but you were justified (saved) in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

The water of Baptism applies the merits of Jesus’ Blood sacrifice on the cross to our souls and this takes away our sins, both Adam’s Original Sin which caused us to become enemies of God and also all of our own personal sins that are on our souls at the time of our Baptisms. It is this cleansing by Baptism which gives us a good conscience towards God because Baptism reconciles us to God spiritually and we then have hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:7
that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

You win; have it your way, but remember this conversation will appear before you again ; for sure on the day of judgment because you were given the truth and you do not want to accept it. Water does not wash away a single sin; the cross accomplished all that and the moment we believe His gospel, we immediately receive the Holy Spirit of Promise, then we are commanded to be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Spirit. 1 Co 6:11; their is not a drop od water in that verse, but you are unable to see it.

Good luck with your religious walk; i cannot continue any dialogue with folks who do not understand the basics of salvation and can’t fathom the work that Christ did on behalf of whosoever will. Imagine knowing most of your life the manner and time of your death and what a burden that would be on your life. Imagine the cat-nine tales being ripped across you back like the farmers plow ripping up the soil and taking it blow after blow, then having you face spit in, the having a crown of thorns 2-3 inches or more in length saddled on your head and push down, the having your beard ripped off your face, then being blind folded and have you face so badly beaten that it is unrecognizable as a human being, then being forced to carry a cross you had no strength to lift and once you get there, they rip off you blood stained robe that is sticking to the bleeding wounds, then having your hands driven by railroad spikes, then in the feet, then to have to bear not only that, but the greatest hell of being separated from the Father in order to all alone bear on Himself all of our sins, then say it is finished. No more suffering, no more SACRIFICE, no more being separated from the Father. This is what my Lord and my Savior did for me and to say or imply that was insufficient by saying you must do something to receive what He fully paid by just having the heart of sadness for what ALL of US did to Him and jsut asking "Lord, I am ashamed of my sins that put you on that cross, which you were not obligated to do, but in your love for me, you did. I humbly admit my wrongdoings before your Holiness and thankfully & willingly submit to your Lordship and beg for your forgiveness that I might be made right with you Lord. The Lord said: “I forgive you, I remove that heart of stone, I will give you a new heart of flesh, I will give you my Spirit and I will give you eternal life”

No water & no do this’s or do that’s nor any other human thing; He did it and He did it all. Who will deny themselves completely and submit to Him to the point of death? I will Lord, I will.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Jesus does not return to take His Church to heaven before the Great Tribulation. This type of Rapture is not Scriptural.

Jesus only returns once more and it is on the day of His Second Coming which is also called the Day of the Lord, Day of Judgment, Last Day, Day, that day, Judgment of the Great Day, trumpet of God, [last trumpet](1 Corinthians 15:52), His appearing, appear a second time, great white throne judgment, etc. These all speak of Jesus’ Second Coming and on this same day is Judgment for all.

If interested, please see the following for a Scriptural explanation of the Rapture:
members.cox.net/studyhisword/RaptureExplained.pdf

Problem: The catching away in the air is not the Second Coming…
If you live a normal life span, will you be here in 25 years? If so, look for the news stories of a bunch of missing people and mysterious car wrecks etc.