Where did the anti-family vibe come from?

[Calliso]

I like how edwest2’s experiences are evidence that we should go back to the “good ol’ days” but my experiences (and those of many, many other women) are “feminist scare tactics.” Cute, really.

It was not feminism that caused my personal crisis; it was my husband abusing a man’s status in a traditional marriage. It was not traditional values that saved my life; it was feminism. No other way to slice it, and (curiously) I have yet to see any response to me actually adressing these indisputable realities. (But cosidering the only intellectually honest response would be “Hey! You’re right! Maybe feminism has done some good after all!” I’m not holding my breath.)

But as much as I enjoy talking to walls, I have things to do. That is, 8 years after being homeless and destitute with a baby in -30F weather, I am a homeowner and the breadwinner for my family of four. I am providing security for my family where a traditional marriage model straight out of the good ol’ days was nearly the instrument for my destruction and death.

So:

-** Thank you, feminism, for the right to vote

• Thank you, feminism, for the right to get an education
• Thank you, feminism, for the right to professional respect in the workplace as I work alongside men
• Thank you, feminism, for the right to own property

And finally,

• Thank you, traditional values, for showing me the value of feminism.
• Thank you, traditional values, for providing the motivation to navigate the public welfare system
• Thank you, traditional values, for valuable lessons about how awful traditional values can be**

Yep!

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

Well, not exactly. Radical feminist men were OK.
They do exist, and they’re not all gay, either.

My self-identified heterosexual husband has an MA in Women’s Studies and has studied under some of the most prominent feminist thinkers - male and female, of all sexual orientations - in the US.

So yes, they are out there. In fact, there are probably more of them than you think.

Luna

 

[Calliso]

Gosh darn those feminists!!! Deciding that they wanted the right to vote and equal pay forced men to regard them as sex objects and cast them aside when they were done. Note that all of the problems of today’s world are being blamed on women, not at all on men who are just as responsible for casual sex and broken families.

My mom married a man in the army just a few months after she graduated high school. He beat her, tormented her, threatened to kill her, and put her in the hospital more than once. With the help of a shelter for battered women (run by women, who I would assume were feminists. This was the evil '70’s after all) she managed to escape and get a divorce. A few months after it was finalized she got her first car on her own. When she went to get it insured they told her they wouldn’t do it, because they don’t insure cars for divorced women because they may use them to run over their ex-husbands.

So yes, I am thankful that the world is different.

Yep its all womens fault! I mean sheesh if only we were satisfied with being second class citizens and letting men have all the power! Life would just be great!! But yes the people that push those views like to ignore cases like your moms and Athenas or claim that they were rare and had nothing to do with how things were. And while I would agree extreme feminism has gone too far. Feminism did not encourage men to see women as objects they did before But yes men are just as responsible for broken families and what not. And you know going back to the so called good all days wouldn;t change that. The only thing that would change is that women would find it much much harder to get out of abusive and bad marriages.

 

[chemoangel]

Well that may be because “Some” People don’t have a Maternal Bone in their body, and it will be of no help to them or the child, to have children! Regardless it is their choice, not yours to make that decision, and to ACCEPT Their decision as their choice. The world would be a much better place if nobody was pointing a finger at each other. “Childless By Choice, and married 15 years.” We are Happy, We are Fulfilled, and we are heavily into charity and volunteer work. This is what we have decided to do with our life…and we do NOT Regret one moment of it. We are not Kid “Ogres” we simply do Not want any of our own.

 

[Calliso]

One thing people need to consider too is that the whole only the man brings home money the mom just stays at home wasn;t the norm through out history. Maybe in the 1950;s but not through history. Now yes in many cases women would have worked at home or close to it. But through out history most women did have to work. Whether it was in the local factory along with her kids most likely! during the industrial revolution or cleaning the neighbors houses and so on. Most women through out history have had to work. But nowadays women have a lot more choices in where they can work which is nothing but good!

 

[Calliso]

Well that may be because “Some” People don’t have a Maternal Bone in their body, and it will be of no help to them or the child, to have children! Regardless it is their choice, not yours to make that decision, and to ACCEPT Their decision as their choice. The world would be a much better place if nobody was pointing a finger at each other. “Childless By Choice, and married 15 years.” We are Happy, We are Fulfilled, and we are heavily into charity and volunteer work. This is what we have decided to do with our life…and we do NOT Regret one moment of it. We are not Kid “Ogres” we simply do Not want any of our own.

Yep! of course you know you are going to get people saying now that you shouldn;t have ever gotten married and instead stayed single and went into religious life right? Because there is only two legimate choices for people in life…

 

[Calliso]

I think it’s funny how a couple posters here are entirely blaming women for the “fall” of the family. That in itself is ironically sexist.

Yeah and have you noticed that is tends to be mostly men promoting these lets go to the good old days! views? I mean I have seen a few women with such extreme views but its mostly men. Geee I wonder why?

 

[lily20]

It’s pure hedonism and selfishness. The Pill started this. We’ve just continued it until having children seems unnatural and rather wasteful, and untidy. We can have so much more fun without them, yes?

Perfectly said: the Pill. I was in Mejujorge (sp?) and one of the children said that the greatest threat to the world was the breakdown of the family. I will never forget those words.

Marriage is expendable. Fertility is expendable. I was on the pill for 14 years!!! When I got off of it my 20th or whatever-number then boyfriend took me to planned parenthood to get back on it. I was uncomfortable, but went. At the bathroom mirror I was about to pop it and I looked at myself in the mirror. My boyfriend was upstairs. I threw the pills away and walked out and told him I wasn’t taking it anymore. I was prepared to lose him over it.

Women become slaves to the pill and also we never learn to date correctly because of it. My relationships have been sexual with not much friendship or respect in there. I look back and wonder-- with more responsibilities, would I have still chosen this kind of irresponsible lifestyle that is “women’s choice?”

 

[Calliso]

Indeed - my parents have one such exceedingly successful traditional marriage. But the success of traditional marriage in some cases cannot be used to dismiss the necessity of feminism and the great good that is has wrought for many people.

Yep especially when these tradional values can be so easily exploited. I donlt think anyone is saying all men were bad and treated their women like **** and all women were unhappy. But feminism has helped alot of women. And if we went back to the good old days that would mean many more women in bad marriages and situations that they would have a much harder time getting out of.

 

[Calliso]

Who’s living life in fear? Is it too much to ask for a society where women are able to fend for themselves the same as a man? The only fear I see is fear that women will be able to take care of themselves and their children and no longer forced to be subject to abusive men.

In my adult life, I have lived in Iowa, Illinois, Texas, California, Alaska, and Hawaii. So I haven’t been everywhere, but I’ve been enough places and observed enough to know that everything you said in this paragraph is still true in 2012. So I don’t know what your point is here.

I am not responsible for them, nor are they emblematic of the great good that feminism has wrought. So I’m not sure what your point is here.

Yep! that seems to be the real fear here!

 

[Calliso]

You use the word forced. Where did that come from? Stay single if you believe that. Your other option is to listen to clear Church teaching.

The rotten fruit of the radical feminist movement is being exposed for the lie it was and is.

I watched a documentary on TV about a foreign country. There was a group of four people that had a certain job in the life of the local communities. If a woman was being verbally and emotionally abused, she could go to that group and explain her case. They were respected in their role by all. In the example I watched, they appeared at the door of the home in question. The husband and wife were both there.

They asked if they could come in. After being allowed inside, the husband was asked if he had yelled at his wife and made her feel bad. The husband said it was true. The husband was asked what happened to cause him to behave this way. Then it all came out. He explained that he had a bad day at work with his boss, he was tired and hungry when he got home, and got mad when he saw dinner was not on the table.

His wife explained that she had gone to help a sick neighbor, lost track of the time and so dinner was not ready on time. She told them she tried to explain that to her husband but he remained in a bad mood as if what she said did not help matters. There were a few other, similar incidents, which the husband described.

The group then asked the husband if he thought what he did was wrong. He said yes, and immediately told his wife he was sorry, and told everyone that he would improve his behavior in the future. That he would listen to his wife and treat her better.

Satisfied that they had helped, the group left.

So, in the United States, instead of seeking understanding, admitting our faults and asking for forgiveness, we have been programmed to focus only on the evils done. Instead of seeking and earning trust from another, and developing friendships that were observable by actions, and developing a love for one another based on understanding the real, everyday behavior of the person we wished to marry and what he or she expected from the future if they married - some have chosen to believe the lies. Reject marriage, reject living together and turn true intimacy into “just sex.” I’ll pick a man, use contraception, satisfy myself and I’ll never need to deal with his nonsense, or friends or family. And I will never, ever risk being abused in any way. It’s just a one-time deal.

God forbid,
Ed

Those talking about abuse are not talking about a man occasionally yelling at his wife because he had a bad day. I mean sure if a woman had the courage to go to such a commitee if she was truly being abused and she managed to show them proof then maybe they could help her. Assuming But God help her if she can;t because no telling what her husband would do then! Now combined that with a society where your job oppurtunities are severely limited and you make less then a man for the same job not to mention examples like blueeyedlady gave with her mom not being able to get insurance and well it just gets that much worse.

 

[edwest2]

Perfectly said: the Pill. I was in Mejujorge (sp?) and one of the children said that the greatest threat to the world was the breakdown of the family. I will never forget those words.

Marriage is expendable. Fertility is expendable. I was on the pill for 14 years!!! When I got off of it my 20th or whatever-number then boyfriend took me to planned parenthood to get back on it. I was uncomfortable, but went. At the bathroom mirror I was about to pop it and I looked at myself in the mirror. My boyfriend was upstairs. I threw the pills away and walked out and told him I wasn’t taking it anymore. I was prepared to lose him over it.

Women become slaves to the pill and also we never learn to date correctly because of it. My relationships have been sexual with not much friendship or respect in there. I look back and wonder-- with more responsibilities, would I have still chosen this kind of irresponsible lifestyle that is “women’s choice?”

Yes. More and more women are coming to realize that pleasure and sacrifice go together for both partners, and men as well.

janetsmith.excerptsofinri.com/

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Yep especially when these tradional values can be so easily exploited. I donlt think anyone is saying all men were bad and treated their women like **** and all women were unhappy. But feminism has helped alot of women. And if we went back to the good old days that would mean many more women in bad marriages and situations that they would have a much harder time getting out of.

Your statement is unsupportable. It is an assumption, nothing more. Radical feminism teaches:

Killing your baby in the womb is good.
Contraception is good.

www.now.org/

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Those talking about abuse are not talking about a man occasionally yelling at his wife because he had a bad day. I mean sure if a woman had the courage to go to such a commitee if she was truly being abused and she managed to show them proof then maybe they could help her. Assuming But God help her if she can;t because no telling what her husband would do then! Now combined that with a society where your job oppurtunities are severely limited and you make less then a man for the same job not to mention examples like blueeyedlady gave with her mom not being able to get insurance and well it just gets that much worse.

Your statements do nothing but support the “all men are evil” idea. If you truly believe that, then tell every woman you know that all men are out to use and abuse them. Don’t make any exceptions.

Sheesh.

God have mercy,
Ed

 

[Calliso]

Your statements do nothing but support the “all men are evil” idea. If you truly believe that, then tell every woman you know that all men are out to use and abuse them. Don’t make any exceptions.

Sheesh.

God have mercy,
Ed

Oh please how do my statements support that! All I am saying is that your example would not really help women in real abuse situations. And if we went back to the so called good old days the situation would just get harder for women in such situations. I donlt see how saying that is saying all men are bad! Its just saying that solutions like yours really wouldn;t work. Basically you can;t oppress women and solve abusive situations. But seriously tell me how such a commitee would help a woman in a real abuse situation assuming she has the courage to even go to them or even the ablity.

 

[edwest2]

Oh please how do my statements support that! All I am saying is that your example would not really help women in real abuse situations. And if we went back to the so called good old days the situation would just get harder for women in such situations. I donlt see how saying that is saying all men are bad! Its just saying that solutions like yours really wouldn;t work. Basically you can;t oppress women and solve abusive situations. But seriously tell me how such a commitee would help a woman in a real abuse situation assuming she has the courage to even go to them or even the ablity.

You have an interesting power: predicting the past. Sorry. My idea stands - the distorted program exists. The only way to avoid any abuse by men today is to stay away from all of them. You don’t want to be oppressed, right? Then collect all the women you know and at minimum, walk down the street with baseball bats, containers of mace and brass knuckles. Threaten any man that looks at you or your group the wrong way. That’ll teach 'em.

No need to wait for any legislation to go through. No other solution is possible according to what you wrote. Besides, why wait for some piece of legislation that might take years to pass? And if you knew or even saw a strange woman that looked battered and bruised, identify the culprit and let him have it. And beat up men that whistle at women or call them “baby.” Just threaten, intimidate and cause bodily harm to men. That oughta solve the problem.

“you can’t solve abusive situations”? Sure you can.

God have mercy,
Ed

 

[Calliso]

You have an interesting power: predicting the past. Sorry. My idea stands - the distorted program exists. The only way to avoid any abuse by men today is to stay away from all of them. You don’t want to be oppressed, right? Then collect all the women you know and at minimum, walk down the street with baseball bats, containers of mace and brass knuckles. Threaten any man that looks at you or your group the wrong way. That’ll teach 'em.

No need to wait for any legislation to go through. No other solution is possible according to what you wrote. Besides, why wait for some piece of legislation that might take years to pass? And if you knew or even saw a strange woman that looked battered and bruised, identify the culprit and let him have it. And beat up men that whistle at women or call them “baby.” Just threaten, intimidate and cause bodily harm to men. That oughta solve the problem.

"you can’t solve abusive situations"? Sure you can.

God have mercy,
Ed

Where did I say that? All I have said is that your commitee example really wouldn;t work in most cases for real abuse situations. And if we were to go back to the good old days as you want them. Well things would get even worse for a woman in such a situation. Because even today its not easy to get out of sucha situation. No where have I or anyone else said anything that suggests that women should distrust all men or whatever. And yes no matter what you can;t avoid abusive situations completely. However making them harder to get out of or proposing silly solutions doesn;t help either. I mean once again how would a commitee like you mentioned help a woman in an actual abuse situation? I mean how often do you think that would actually work? Also I am not predicting the past I am listening to the stories of women who actually lived in such abusive situations or knew people that did! You can pretend they didn;t exist but they did!

 

[edwest2]

Where did I say that? All I have said is that your commitee example really wouldn;t work in most cases for real abuse situations. And if we were to go back to the good old days as you want them. Well things would get even worse for a woman in such a situation. Because even today its not easy to get out of sucha situation. No where have I or anyone else said anything that suggests that women should distrust all men or whatever. And yes no matter what you can;t avoid abusive situations completely. However making them harder to get out of or proposing silly solutions doesn;t help either. I mean once again how would a commitee like you mentioned help a woman in an actual abuse situation? I mean how often do you think that would actually work? Also I am not predicting the past I am listening to the stories of women who actually lived in such abusive situations or knew people that did! You can pretend they didn;t exist but they did!

“And yes no matter what you can’t avoid abusive situations completely.”

I gave you a plan of action and you don’t like it? It’s simple.

Stay away from all men - totally eliminating any possibility for abuse.

Find battered women and find out who did the battering. You don’t need to ask her permission, just get the culprit. Give him what for.

Sure, some women find it hard to get out of an abusive relationship. Get them out and/or get the guy who did it. And if he does it again, well, he just needs another lesson or two. Finally, he should tire of the strange group of masked women who beat the tar out of him on a regular basis. Or cover him in pepper spray.

I am tired of hearing the “there’s no answer” answer. Or the ‘it’s impossible’ answer as well. Or the obvious - ‘as long as there are men, they will abuse women.’

Come up with a solution, please.

God have mercy,
Ed

 

[Baelor]

Come up with a solution, please.

The solution is obvious – encourage and help others to live in Christ’s light.

Have consequences – in the current societal structure, these will be legal – for those who reject God’s teachings and show society that they cannot live responsible in it. This is much harder when there is an institutional bias. It was not so long ago that marital rape was considered an oxymoron. This is coupled with support networks for victims of such persons.

 

[Calliso]

“And yes no matter what you can’t avoid abusive situations completely.”

I gave you a plan of action and you don’t like it? It’s simple.

Stay away from all men - totally eliminating any possibility for abuse.

Find battered women and find out who did the battering. You don’t need to ask her permission, just get the culprit. Give him what for.

Sure, some women find it hard to get out of an abusive relationship. Get them out and/or get the guy who did it. And if he does it again, well, he just needs another lesson or two. Finally, he should tire of the strange group of masked women who beat the tar out of him on a regular basis. Or cover him in pepper spray.

I am tired of hearing the “there’s no answer” answer. Or the ‘it’s impossible’ answer as well. Or the obvious - ‘as long as there are men, they will abuse women.’

Come up with a solution, please.

God have mercy,
Ed

Well until humans are perfect and sinless no you can;t avoid these situations entirely however you can reduce the rate of them happening and make them easier to get out of. But what I am saying is that making it even harder then it already is which is what would happen if things went back to the so called good old days is not a good idea!