where did we get the bible?

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Odell

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I have been told it is the Catholic Church. And that is what I believe. But if it is true waht do protestants have to say or do they believe the bible came about any different.

anyway I would like to know both sides so I can determine for my self who really knows what they are talking about.
 
Odell said:
I have been told it is the Catholic Church. And that is what I believe. But if it is true waht do protestants have to say or do they believe the bible came about any different.

anyway I would like to know both sides so I can determine for my self who really knows what they are talking about.
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The origins of the bible are not in dispute between Catholic and Protestant scholars. Both accept that the Hebrew scriptures were collected over many centuries, with the major books undergoing their final redaction during the Babylonian exile in around 700BC. The New Testament books were written by early Christians in the first century or in the opening years of the second century.

A selection of these books was then declared to be canonical by the Church.

However some not particularly informed Protestants have some strange ideas that, because the Bible is typically printed in one volume, it is in some sense a book that was given to Christians by God. Some also treat it as a manual giving instructions on how to found a Church. These ideas don’t stand up to five minute’s real anlysis, but they are quite prevalent.
 
This is one of the problems I was wanting to adress the Church came before the bible. Not vise versa. Just what Church was it?
 
Odell said:
This is one of the problems I was wanting to adress the Church came before the bible. Not vise versa. Just what Church was it?
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The Church did. It was Catholic because it was before the 1054 Schism that the Church decided which books were Canonical. The Book of Acts, and the Epistles testify that the Church came first.

In Catholicism, the Church was born from the side of Christ on the cross. The Church then inspired by the Holy Spirit went out and preached, and accepted 3,000 members in Jerusalem. The Book of Acts was written 10-20 yrs after the events which took place in Jerusalem…
 
Odell said:
This is one of the problems I was wanting to adress the Church came before the bible. Not vise versa. Just what Church was it?
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The books of the New Testament give us a glimpse. There was certainly a group, originally in Jerusalem, who constituted a leadership. If you read carefully it is pretty obvious that St Peter was the leader, though he seems to have had trouble keeping control.

St Paul founded a large number of daughter churches, and seems to have travelled around seeing to them. It seems to have been predominantly an urban movement, and most of the people we hear about seem to be middle class, owning slaves and with the resources to entertain visitors, probably with the ability to hold a service in their own homes, though it is difficult to be sure. It was rapidly losing its Jewish identity, though there seems to have been friction with the Jewish communities.

They had the breaking of the bread and baptism. They also obviously had a strong belief in the Holy Spirit. The authorities don’t seem to have been certain how to react - there are sporadic arrests and executions of followers, but not a determined attempt to wipe the movement out.

We don’t nearly as much as we would like, but that’s a fairly detailed picture of the Church in the first century.
 
Odell said:
I have been told it is the Catholic Church. And that is what I believe. But if it is true waht do protestants have to say or do they believe the bible came about any different.

anyway I would like to know both sides so I can determine for my self who really knows what they are talking about.
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The Apostles, disciples, Fathers of the Church, and Councils gave us the Bible we have today. Tradition preceeded the printed Bible.

It was the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that gave us the Bible.
 
Athanasius (sp?) compiled the first list I believe of the 27 New Testament books. Because he was a Bishop in Alexandria, I guess I am having a hard time saying the Catholic Church can claim him…
As far as Hippo and Cathage, it appears that in no ways settled the issue for the East completely…
To this day, different Christians have different canons as we all know.
I am always very uncomfortable with people claiming they gave anyone scripture. Of course we are familiar with the history behind it, various councils and such. For me, that is not the core of it. I know, I have heard the quote about how someone would not know it was scripture except for the authority of the church.
It is one of the issues where from our perspective, it seems like an unacceptable level of arrogance. God accomplishes what God will accomplish regardless of what men do or will not do.
Not to mention, because we do not agree with the canon of the Catholic Church, I fail to see how they can accurately claim they gave Protestants the Bible…
 
BrianH said:
Athanasius (sp?) compiled the first list I believe of the 27 New Testament books. Because he was a Bishop in Alexandria, I guess I am having a hard time saying the Catholic Church can claim him…
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Why?
He is a father of the Catholic Church. He was responsible for countering many heresies, including Arianism which claimed Jesus was not equal to God.
BrianH said:
As far as Hippo and Cathage, it appears that in no ways settled the issue for the East completely…
To this day, different Christians have different canons as we all know.
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It never the less was the only text approved by the Pope and generally accepted by Christians for 1400 years. There were heretical “Bibles” around, yes. St. Jerome was commissioned by Pope Damasus I to compile and translate the various texts from Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic into Latin. This edition is know as the Vulgate because it was written in the common language of the peope. This was so ALL could read it in a more cohesive manner. Before this, the writings were written on scrolls, made of papyrus, which easily deteriorated and were hard to use.
BrianH said:
I am always very uncomfortable with people claiming they gave anyone scripture. Of course we are familiar with the history behind it, various councils and such. For me, that is not the core of it. I know, I have heard the quote about how someone would not know it was scripture except for the authority of the church.
It is one of the issues where from our perspective, it seems like an unacceptable level of arrogance. God accomplishes what God will accomplish regardless of what men do or will not do.
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There is no arrogance in allowing God to accomplish what He will. He accomplished giving Scripture to the world through the Catholic Church, which not only compiled and translated it. The CC also safe guarded it and copied during the various invasions by Barbarians, copied it by hand, using illustrations for those who could not read.
BrianH said:
Not to mention, because we do not agree with the canon of the Catholic Church, I fail to see how they can accurately claim they gave Protestants the Bible…
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From the Catholic Christian perspective, ML TOOK the Bible, changed it, and claimed HE gave the Bible to the world.
 
The New Testament was written by Jews Christains who were Baptist.
 
allischalmers said:
The New Testament was written by Jews Christains who were Baptist.
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Nope.

Baptists are persons rejecting infant baptism are frequently mentioned in English history in the sixteenth century. We learn of their presence in the island through the persecutions they endured. As early as 1535 ten Anabaptists were put to death, and the persecution continued throughout that century. The victims seem to have been mostly Dutch and German refugees. What influence they exerted in spreading their views is not known; but, as a necessary result, Baptist principles became, through them, less of an unacceptable novelty in the eyes of Englishmen. The first Baptist congregations were organized in the beginning of the seventeenth century. Almost at the very start, the denomination was divided into “Arminian”, or “General” Baptists, so named because of their belief in the universal character of Christ’s redemption, and “Calvinistic” or “Particular” Baptists, who maintained that Christ’s redemption was intended for the elect alone. The origin of the General Baptists is connected with the name of John Smyth (d. 1612), pastor of a church at Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, which had separated from the Church of England. About 1606, pastor and flock, to escape persecution, emigrated to Amsterdam, where they formed the second English congregation. In 1609, Smyth, owing possibly in some measure to Mennonite influence, rejected infant baptism, although he retained affusion. In this he was supported by his church. Some members of the congregation returned to England (1611 or 1612) under the leadership of Helwys (c. 1550-1616) and formed in London the nucleus of the first Baptist community. Persecution had abated, and they do not seem to have been molested. By 1626 there were in different parts of England five General Baptist churches; by 1644, they had increased, it is said, to forty-seven; and by 1660 the membership of the body had reached about 20,000. It was between 1640 and 1660 that the General Baptists began to claim that immersion was the only valid mode of baptism. They were persecuted by Charles II (1660-85); but the Act of Toleration (1689) brought relief and recognized the Baptists as the third dissenting denomination (Presbyterians, Independents, and Baptists). In the **eighteenth century, Anti-Trinitarian ideas spread among the General Baptists, and by 1750, many, perhaps the majority of them, had become Unitarians. As a result of the great Wesleyan revival of the second half of the eighteenth century, new religious activity manifested itself among the General Baptists. **

Baptists is a branch of Protestantism founded in the 1500s. It lacks any Apostolic Sucessions. It was the Church not Baptists…
 
According to Baptist historian H. Leon McBeth, Baptists, as a distinct denomination, originated in England in a time of intense religious reform. McBeth writes, “Our best historical evidence says that Baptists came into existence in England in the early seventeenth century. They apparently emerged out of the Puritan-Separatist movement in the Church of England.”[11]

Some see the Baptists as the descendants of the 16th century Anabaptists (which some view as a product of the Protestant Reformation and others view as a continuation of the older pre-Reformation non-Catholic churches) and others see them as a separation from the Church of England in the 1600s
 
God gave us the Bible as part of His Divine Revelation. It came to us through the Catholic Church.
 
savedsinner said:
Luke was a Jewish Christian?
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Ignore him. He said the same thing on a bunch of other threads,

“Originally Posted by allischalmers
Not so, Baptist wrote the Bible”

“Originally Posted by allischalmers
Jesus, Paul, James, John, and Peter were all Baptist”

He doesn’t read any of the posts, just makes the remarks all over, then leaves. To bad, we might could learn a lot from him.
 
allischalmers said:
The New Testament was written by Jews Christains who were Baptist.
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Please give us references where this can be looked up!!! The Catholic Church approved the Canon of the New Testament and used the Alexandrian (Septuagint) version for the Old Testament.
 
qui_est_ce said:
BrianH;2892206:
I asked “Why” in response to your post below:
Originally Posted by BrianH
Athanasius (sp?) compiled the first list I believe of the 27 New Testament books. Because he was a Bishop in Alexandria, I guess I am having a hard time saying the Catholic Church can claim him…

I wondered why you were having a hard time saything the Catholic Church can claim him, in response to where we got the Bible.

I gave you an answer why you should not have a hard time with St. Athanasious being a Church Father:

*He is a father of the Catholic Church. He was responsible for countering many heresies, including Arianism which claimed Jesus was not equal to God.

It never the less was the only text approved by the Pope and generally accepted by Christians for 1400 years. There were heretical “Bibles” around, yes. St. Jerome was commissioned by Pope Damasus I to compile and translate the various texts from Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic into Latin. This edition is know as the Vulgate because it was written in the common language of the peope. This was so ALL could read it in a more cohesive manner. Before this, the writings were written on scrolls, made of papyrus, which easily deteriorated and were hard to use.

There is no arrogance in allowing God to accomplish what He will. He accomplished giving Scripture to the world through the Catholic Church, which not only compiled and translated it. The CC also safe guarded it and copied during the various invasions by Barbarians, copied it by hand, using illustrations for those who could not read.

From the Catholic Christian perspective, ML TOOK the Bible, changed it, and claimed HE gave the Bible to the world.*
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Do you disagree with the above?
You did not answer, maybe you should be saying the Coptic church gave us the Bible…
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Hi Odell,

There is little controversy with Protestans regarding the Bible itself. Where the controversy arises is when Protestants claim that the only source of revelation is the Bible.

Catholics believe that God spoke through Jesus to the apostles who then “handed down” to us the truths revealed by God. Some of this tradition was written down by the apostles or persons close to them, and that is the New Testament. Some of this tradition was not written down by the apostles or persons close to them and that is what we commonly call Tradition with a capital T.

I think you would enjoy reading the superb document of the Council where all this is set down in detail : Dei Verbum.
 
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