Where do souls of non-Christian go after they die?

  • Thread starter Thread starter anhphan
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
That’s not the point of what I said. The point is answering the question of whether a person who’s not following God in the Catholic or Christian church can still have some sort of friendship with God. I think the answer is “yes” and the Catechism seems to agree, at least as regards the Jewish people and Muslims.

If you want to say that you think they don’t have a friendship with God because they’re worshipping him in the “wrong church”, then please just say so and don’t frame it up as a loaded question.
 
Last edited:
If their definition and perception of God is fundamentally different then that is a different God. Otherwise anyone’s definition of God would automatically transform into yours. You would have to say to a Jew or Muslim, sorry, you don’t even know who you are praying to; you are praying to my Trinitarian God. Your definition doesn’t matter, Allah and Yahweh are the same.
 
MagdalenaRita said:
So is “praying” to God what makes you in “friendship” or right relationship with Him or is it following Him in the Way, the Truth and the Life He gave us in the Church?
In other words does all it take to be in friendship with God prayer?
Click to expand...
I think you will agree that it is God who ultimately judges who is in friendship with him. Those who are not following the way, the truth and the life depend entirely on God’s mercy. This is true whether they are Christians or not.

So, to get back to the OP… it depends.

ETA: just to clarify since my post has already been misinterpreted once… I am not suggesting that any Christian of any stripe or any degree of holiness can be saved by their own efforts. All salvation depends upon the mercy of God. This is why the only appropriate answer to the OP is “it depends”.
 
Last edited:
I answered you in a question because your post was worded in a question.

I think we have to be careful in saying that those who worship God outside the Catholic Church can be saved the same or before some one who follows the Catholic church. It definitely puts one soul in danger.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
Those who are not following the way, the truth and the life depend entirely on God’s mercy.
Click to expand...
Given that we are all sinners and do not follow the way, the truth and the life perfectly, we are ALL entirely dependent on God’s mercy.

We cannot achieve salvation by our own efforts, ever, even if we’re as holy as St. Padre Pio 24/7. St. Faustina’s prayer recognizes this:
Lord, Goodness beyond our understanding, Who … know that by our own power we cannot ascend to You, we implore You: fill us with Your grace and keep on increasing Your mercy in us, that we may faithfully do Your holy will all through our lives and at the hour of death.
…
And we expect to obtain everything promised us by Jesus in spite of all our wretchedness. For Jesus is our Hope: through His merciful Heart, as through an open gate we pass through to heaven.
Click to expand...
Following the way, the truth and the life is designed to help us to become more holy, better able to act according to God’s will, and generally better friends with God, but in no way does it make us less dependent on God’s mercy than an atheist, because whatever we try to do to become more holy and build our relationship with God is still going to fall far short of what’s needed for our salvation.
 
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself said:
Given that we are all sinners and do not follow the way, the truth and the life perfectly, we are ALL entirely dependent on God’s mercy.
Click to expand...
That is what I meant when I said it was true whether you are Christian or not.
Tis_Bearself said:
We cannot achieve salvation by our own efforts, ever, even if we’re as holy as St. Padre Pio 24/7.
Click to expand...
Never said we could… you read a lot more into my post than was there…
 
Last edited:
MagdalenaRita said:
I think we have to be careful in saying that those who worship God outside the Catholic Church can be saved the same or before some one who follows the Catholic church. It definitely puts one soul in danger.
Click to expand...
There is always a tension when extending the possibility of salvation to those outside the Catholic church.

The reality is that God decides who he saves and is fully capable of saving an atheist ahead of a Catholic if he so desires. That doesn’t mean one just presumes it’s okay to go be an atheist, or that all religions and lack of religion are the same.

The same tension exists when people say we are all only saved through God’s mercy; some people take that statement as endangering souls if somebody then thinks it’s okay to go commit sins because God is merciful.

I think God expects us to use common sense when applying these doctrines, while realizing that aspects of them will likely always be beyond the grasp of our human minds.
 
Last edited:
MagdalenaRita said:
I think we have to be careful in saying that those who worship God outside the Catholic Church can be saved the same or before some one who follows the Catholic church.
Click to expand...
What in the world would ‘before’ mean in this context, anyway? It doesn’t make any sense.

So, the answer – from the perspective of the Catholic Church – is that salvation is possible for non-Christians. That salvation would come by virtue of a different path than we Christians walk (baptism / justification / sanctification / salvation); it would come from a grant of mercy from God.
 
Not exactly. I’d advise that you read through Romans 2:13-16 and let me know what you think of that passage. Please keep in mind that everyone who is saved is saved because of grace. Ultimately, God is the Judge who will render every man according to his works. (Romans 2:6).
 
While the following is true; we must realize it is possible for anyone;
especially by means of presumption and/or despair to drift into a ‘darkened’ conscience.
Jeremiah speaks of this - i.e. they commit abomination and are not even ashamed and do not know how to blush.
Paul The Apostle calls in a ‘seared conscience’ where they give themselves over to depravity or approve depravity.

There is too much ‘modernism’ that has drifted into Christian thinking. It has many aspects
like all religions are the same, just different roads to God. Also, by placing so much emphasis on human experience, less on the Divine Revelation, striving to sound not
judgmental; has had the opposite effect. Society in general, and the known infiltration of The Church (spoken of by well respected persons like Bishop Fulton J. Sheen and Dietrich von Hildebrand) - instead of striving to be more creative in teaching moral absolutes/
some purposely, some thinking it makes the Church more attractive; for the last several decades a lot of people have not be presented with clarity in moral teaching. This along
with societal forces in general has actually hurt The Church. Less people find The Good News, that we actually need a Savior to help us love virtue and hate sin. There is a pervasive atmosphere of, ‘well, I can just follow my own conscience.’ I love God and
love & care about my family - that’s all that matters. We’ve forgotten that we show
our Love of God, by learning to observe His Commands more and more cheerfully;
and truly be sorrowful for offending God, Who Paid The Excruciating Price of The Passion;
through Jesus Christ to make Salvation possible.

The following article is informative.


The following quote from the Catechism is used.
“This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847)”
 
Last edited:
The Bible says God judges those outside The Church.
and that we are not to judge nor condemn.
Jesus Christ said that it is possible to make mistakes regarding Him,
and be forgiven/ but blaspheming The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven
in this life or the next. Jesus also spoke that those who sin in ignorance
will receive less stripes though they deserve more; but to whom much is
given much is required.
It is good that we have The Teachings of The Church.
But we have to be careful. Jesus Christ is the only way that anyone is saved.
And we must be compassionate assertive in Proclaiming The Good News.
 
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself said:
This is true if you define “Christian” broadly to include those who accept Christ at the point of death. For example, as a Muslim or atheist dies, at the moment of death he sees or experiences Christ through the mercy of God, and accepts him. By your definition, this person would now be Christian, even though he did not live as a Christian on earth.
Click to expand...
Just wondering where you find this as part of Catholic teaching. It almost sounds like what you are saying is people will be visited by Jesus the moment before they die and offered a choice.
 
The Church states at CCC 839-845 that non-Christians are not excluded from the plan of salvation. As has been stated on the thread, they can be saved by God’s mercy.

Since all salvation comes from Christ (CCC 846), then if God in his mercy did choose to save a non-Christian, then that non-Christian would necessarily have to accept Christ and, in essence, become a Christian as part of the salvation process. There are no “non-Christians” in Heaven because you can’t be getting salvation through Christ while simultaneously denying Christ. You need to accept Christ in order to get to Heaven.

We don’t know exactly what process God would use if He decided to save a non-Christian. My saying “at the moment of death he sees or experiences…” is just a hypothetical, although it would make sense for someone to meet Christ when they die, given that they are going to be judged by Christ/ God at that point, and it would also make sense for them to have to accept Christ right then if they’re going to be saved, because they are getting judged right that minute and accepting Christ after being judged might be too late for you.
 
Last edited:
There is also Purgatory where Jesus is present and where honest truth seekers who were not evangelized may go.
 
anhphan said:
Do they go to Purgatory? Or they become ghost wandering in this world? Is it true that only Christian can go to Purgatory? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
No matter who, the last 4 things are
  1. death
  2. judgement
  3. heaven
  4. hell
Purgatory is for only people who die in a state of grace, as in no mortal sin on their soul at death, and need final purification. Every one in purgatory goes to heaven after purification
 
Last edited:
Cruciferi said:
The wandering soul theory was condemned by the Church.
Click to expand...
Is this really true? Or was it just something put forward that wasn’t quite stated “doctrinally”? The reason I ask is, we kinda freaked a Priest out once by telling him what [someone close] was seeing, and he came over right away and blessed the house, holy water and salt…everything short of an exorcism. But what we described (seeing “people” or “spirits” and hearing things) was VASTLY different than some other things I had experienced as a teenager/young adult that could be described as demonic.
I figured that the later events may have been something akin to souls in a state of purgation or something?

[If I’ve teetered off topic too far, maybe PM or a separate post would be better??)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top