Where does it talk about praying to the Saints?

[rschmeidler]

First- I am still in RCIA classes and definitely have lots to learn so if this isn’t the correct forum to ask this question- please direct me, ok? I am trying to figure out why I should ask Saints to intercede for me? Is this in the Bible and if so, where?

 

[scott1228]

first of all, CCC is good place to start.

second, look at the wedding at Cana. The Lord performs his first miracle there. Why? Not because it was His idea, but because the Virgin Mary asked him to. It doesn’t even say that the bridegroom asked Mary to intercede, but she appears to intercede on her own.

So if Mary is willing to intercede for us on our behalf, why would we hesitate to ask her to do that which she is already willing to do?

Next, look at the scene at the foot of the cross. The Lord says, Woman, behold your son. Son, behold your mother. The Lord is entrusting us to Mary, as our spiritual mother, for all times.

Of course, also proper to ask other saints to pray for us, even angels, but she is pre-eminent over all the saints and angels.

Scott

 

[Believe_85]

A good place to start is to look up the concept of the Communion of Saints on Catholic.com

 

[NotWorthy]

We see in Revelation where the Saints in Heaven are offering up as incense the prayers of the Saints here on earth.

Isn’t it in Hebrews where the saints are gathered around us like a cloud of witnesses cheering us on? This would indicate that they care for us. If they can hear our prayers, as demonstrated in Revelation, it’s pretty safe to assume they would also pray for us.

Also, in Jesus’ parable of the Lost Sheep in Luke,

Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

Again, there is much joy when one gains eternal life. Don’t you think they are praying for our conversion as much as possible, for they know that it pleases God for each little lost sheep to get to heaven.

 

[YADA]

In addition to the previous posts on the Book of Revelation we have:

Scripture that informs us that we are to “pray uncessingly” and to “pray for each other”.

God is the God of the living and not the dead … He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob …

On the mount of transfiguration, Peter, James and John recognize Elijah and Moses [long “dead” to their earthly life] speaking with Jesus…

We have the story of Lazarus, the Rich Man and Father Abraham, recognizing and communicating across a great chasm [from heaven to hell] and the rich man’s plea that Abraham send Lazarus to warn his brothers …

 

[fellowChristian]

1 Thessalonians 5:25
Brethren, pray for us

Ephesians 3:14-15
14 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,
15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name,

we are all one family (“Catholic” is Greek it means “universal”) in heaven and on earth, united together, as children of the Father, through Jesus Christ.

Rom. 8:38-39
38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,

39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to **separate us **from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

therefore, death does not separate the family of God and the love of Christ. We are still united with each other, even beyond death

**Hebrews 12 **
Therefore, since we have so great a **cloud of witnesses **surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

we are surrounded by a great glory cloud (shekinah) of witnesses, our family in heaven. We are not separated, we are not alone.

Proverbs 15:29
The LORD is far from the wicked,
But He hears the prayer of the righteous.

the prayers of the righteous (the saints) have powerful effects. This is why we ask for their prayers. How much more powerful are the saints’ prayers in heaven, in whom righteousness has been perfected.

**Revelation 8:3-4 **
3 Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a golden censer; and much incense was given to him, so that he might add it to the **prayers of all the saints **on the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, went up before God out of the angel’s hand.

in heaven an angel mingles incense with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne of God, and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. These prayers “rise up” before God and elicit various kinds of earthly activity. God responds to his children’s requests, whether made by his children on earth or in heaven.

From
**Saints in Scripture **
scripturecatholic.com/saints.html

Calendar of Saints
catholic.org/saints/calendar/march.php

 

[po18guy]

First- I am still in RCIA classes and definitely have lots to learn so if this isn’t the correct forum to ask this question- please direct me, ok? I am trying to figure out why I should ask Saints to intercede for me? Is this in the Bible and if so, where?

Matthew 22:32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Mark 12:27 “He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”

Luke 20:38 “He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

Only the living can pray for you. Since, to God we pray, and to God they are living, they can intercede for us. It is the same as asking me to pray for you. I then intercede, so do not worry about scripture quotes taken out of context about “one intercessor”. All intercede with Christ, just as you or I do.

Christ’s peace.

 

[kepha1]

Prayers to the saints has always been a normal part of Christianity and writings about devotions was not a criteria in the discern/canon process.

The division between the family of God in heaven, and the family of God on earth, remained completely unthinkable until the so-called reformation. We are ONE family, not a departmentalized family.

God won’t render the saints deaf, dumb, and blind.

 

[po18guy]

Prayers to the saints has always been a normal part of Christianity and writings about devotions was not a criteria for the discernment/canon process.

The division between the family of God in heaven, and the family of God on earth, remained completely unthinkable until the so-called reformation. We are ONE family, not a departmentalized family.

Amen! Well said.

 

[JMBNH]

2 Maccabees 15
[12]What he saw was this: Onias, who had been high priest, a noble and good man, of modest bearing and gentle manner, one who spoke fittingly and had been trained from childhood in all that belongs to excellence, was praying with outstretched hands for the whole body of the Jews.

[13] Then likewise a man appeared, distinguished by his gray hair and dignity, and of marvelous majesty and authority.
[14] And Onias spoke, saying, “This is a man who loves the brethren and prays much for the people and the holy city, Jeremiah, the prophet of God.”
[15] Jeremiah stretched out his right hand and gave to Judas a golden sword, and as he gave it he addressed him thus:
[16] “Take this holy sword, a gift from God, with which you will strike down your adversaries.”

 

[Todd_Easton]

First- I am still in RCIA classes and definitely have lots to learn so if this isn’t the correct forum to ask this question- please direct me, ok? I am trying to figure out why I should ask Saints to intercede for me? Is this in the Bible and if so, where?

Why ask Saints to intercede for you? I can think of three reasons: 1. asking other Christians, including those Saints who have passed through death to be with the Lord, to pray for you tends to build up the Body of Christ (in heaven and on earth) in mutual love; 2. the prayer of a holy person is powerful in its effect (James 5:16-17; also see Job 42:8-9) and no one is more holy than the Saints; 3. some members of the Body of Christ have been given the gift of working miracles so it makes sense, if you need a miracle, to ask those whom the Lord has so gifted. (Sirach 46:19-20; 48:14).

 

[rschmeidler]

I LOVE this website!! :hug1: Thank you for all the references and explanations. Now… off to study… :tiphat:

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

none of your proof texts proves “talking to the saints in heaven”.

Isaiah 33:17 (King James Version)

Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

 

[NotWorthy]

none of your proof texts proves “talking to the saints in heaven”.

Isaiah 33:17 (King James Version)

Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

And what does Isaiah 33:17 prove?

And how can saints offer up our prayers to the Father if they can’t hear us?

 

[Mintaka]

“Thine eyes shall see the King in his beauty” appears to be referring to the saints having the Beatific Vision, and seeing God in all His glory. But having the beatific vision is part of being a member of the Body of Christ; in Heaven we will see what He sees, and hear what He hears. Thus, “They shall behold the land that is very far off”; they will see all things in Creation, as God does, and by His power.

Thus, seeing and knowing as part of God’s Body, the saints see what is happening (the “cloud of witnesses”) and hear and heed prayers (among other things).

That’s a good quote, that Isaiah one. I like it.

 

[kepha1]

And what does Isaiah 33:17 prove?

And how can saints offer up our prayers to the Father if they can’t hear us?

Isaiah 33:17 proves those in heaven are not blind.

Rev. 5:8 - the prayers of the saints (on heaven and earth) are presented to God by the angels and saints in heaven. This shows that the saints intercede on our behalf before God, and it also demonstrates that our prayers on earth are united with their prayers in heaven. (The “24 elders” are said to refer to the people of God – perhaps the 12 tribes and 12 apostles - and the “four living creatures” are said to refer to the angels.)

Rev. 6:9-11 – the martyred saints in heaven cry out in a loud voice to God to avenge their blood “on those who dwell upon the earth.” These are “imprecatory prayers,” which are pleas for God’s judgment (see similar prayers in Psalm 35:1; 59:1-17; 139:19; Jer. 11:20; 15:15; 18:19; Zech.1:12-13). This means that the saints in heaven are praying for those on earth, and God answers their prayers (Rev. 8:1-5). We, therefore, ask for their intercession and protection.
Rev. 8:3-4 – in heaven an angel mingles incense with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne of God, and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. These prayers “rise up” before God and elicit various kinds of earthly activity. God responds to his children’s requests, whether made by his children on earth or in heaven.
scripturecatholic.com/saints.html

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

And what does Isaiah 33:17 prove?

And how can saints offer up our prayers to the Father if they can’t hear us?

1. The saints in heaven don’t offer up our prayers, they offer up their own prayers. They can gain information from people who have recently arrived into heaven about loved ones on earth. And, there is a possiblity, but not proven that guardian angels who make daily trips to heaven based on the book of Job, could make side trips to report to loved ones in heaven about us.
2. Isaiah 33:17 proves beyond doubt that heaven is out of ear shot of earth. You and I are in different places, I can shout at the top of my lungs and you will not hear me. Period, because we are “far off” from each other.
3. Only God can hear us on earth. Angels make daily trips to heaven. There is no proof that angels can be in heaven and on earth at the same time.

Psalm 14:2
The LORD looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God.

Psalm 53:2
God looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God.

1. In context, Hebrews 12:1-3 is speaking about the earthly testimonies of those of faith in Hebrews 11. Read Hebrews 11-12:3 as a unit since chapter and verses designations are artifical.
2. There is no verse that says the saints in heaven look down on us. That verse simply does not exist.
3. The prayers of those in heaven can lack maturity, for example, in Rev 6, we have people in heaven calling for REVENGE against those who persecuted them. Jesus teaches us to pray for them to basically recieve salvation. Paul tells us to bless them that persecute us. Jesus on the cross says to forgive them. The prayers of these in heaven are very immature to say the least.

Rev 6

9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?"

Romans 12:14
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

James 2:26 (New American Standard Bible)

For just as the body without the spirit is dead,

1. When one dies ( James 2:26 defines death as seperation of body and spirit ) they no longer have anything to do with “under the sun”. In fact, after the Judgement light is supplied by God, not the sun. After the judgement the wicked will be casted into darkness.

Ecclesiastes 9:6
Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun.

Revelation 21:23
The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

Revelation 22:5
There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

Matthew 8:12
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[NotWorthy]

1. The saints in heaven don’t offer up our prayers, they offer up their own prayers. They can gain information from people who have recently arrived into heaven about loved ones on earth. And, there is a possiblity, but not proven that guardian angels who make daily trips to heaven based on the book of Job, could make side trips to report to loved ones in heaven about us.

Where does Scripture teach us this?

 

[mlchance]

1. The saints in heaven don’t offer up our prayers, they offer up their own prayers.

Scripture that states this?

They can gain information from people who have recently arrived into heaven about loved ones on earth.

Scripture that states this?

1. Isaiah 33:17 proves beyond doubt that heaven is out of ear shot of earth. You and I are in different places, I can shout at the top of my lungs and you will not hear me. Period, because we are “far off” from each other.

That would be a lot more convincing if it weren’t for things like telephones and the Internet. “Far off” doesn’t preclude communication between places for man in this life; there’s no reason to assume such limitations apply to those in Heaven.

1. Only God can hear us on earth.

Scripture that states this?

1. In context, Hebrews 12:1-3 is speaking about the earthly testimonies of those of faith in Hebrews 11. Read Hebrews 11-12:3 as a unit since chapter and verses designations are artifical.

Okay. Just did that. Hebrews 11-12:3 says the Old Testament saints are a cloud of witnesses that surrounds us. It says nothing about their “earthly testimonies”.

1. There is no verse that says the saints in heaven look down on us. That verse simply does not exist.

Even assuming you’re correct (which you’re not), you’ve still got just an argument from silence, which demonstrates nothing.

The prayers of these in heaven are very immature to say the least.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[murphdog261]

One way to look at it:

God has such a complete love for us that He not only wants to work His divine goodness on us directly (which He does), but He also desires to work His grace through us.

God permits us to pray to Him. Even though He already knows everything on our mind before we speak to Him, He lets us pray to Him.

The very fact that God permits us to pray to Him shows us that He wants us to participate in His goodness, in His grace.

We see this especially in us praying to Him.

If we are to admit that it is out of His total and complete love for us that God lets us pray to him, then it should be even more the case that He would let us pray for each other (which He does).

Where some people get tripped up is when someone who is with God in Heaven is said to be praying for those here on earth.

Although I can see where it may seem logical for there to be a chasm/void between Heaven and earth, where those in Heaven could not hear us on earth, I don’t see anything about prayer to be logical!

The fact that we can pray to God, and for each other, shows very little logic. It is only out of God’s love for us as a connected family that we can do this.

Since prayer seems to be a system working off of love and grace, and not simply logic, I find it hard to believe that God would not let those part of the Body of Christ in Heaven pray for the Body of Christ here on earth. Likewise, we ask those in Heaven to pray for us.

Its just my way of looking at it though.