Where Have All The Apostates And Anti-Mormons Gone?

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Trying to follow the US Open online, since they don’t have cable. 😛
 
majick275 said:
actually i thought zerinus had proven my case for me when he supported the LOF. I am not here to attack Mormonism, i am here to defend Catholicism against Mormonism. i respond to the uninformed because they have only read faith promoting materials posts, the lying for the lord, the milk before meat and the various other Mormon missionary attempts that keep getting trotted out here by those hoping to CONvert Catholics or those inquiring about Catholicism. I also hope to help and encourage those mormons who are looking to join the catholic church.

zerinus is no threat to any of that. he is excellent comic relief though. 👍
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:confused:
What is “Lying for the Lord” and “LOF”?
 
stcalixtus said:
As a Catholic I would rather live next door to LDS then someone who does not believe in God…at least we are on the same page eh? we organized christian churches should get along for there are so many Godless people in this world…peace be with you:highprayer:
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At the risk of starting an argument, I feel it’s important to point out, for those that may not know, that Mormons don’t actually believe in God, they believe in a god, one among many, who were all originally human. They don’t even believe that their god was the first one. Their god has a god, who has a god and so forth. They don’t believe in an eternal, uncreated God, an uncaused cause, who created everything. They believe that the only thing that is eternal, in the Catholic sense of the word, is the matter and energy that make up this universe. Their gods aren’t even capable of creating matter or energy, they can only reorganize what’s already there.
 
cyberjacques said:
At the risk of starting an argument, I feel it’s important to point out, for those that may not know, that Mormons don’t actually believe in God, they believe in a god, one among many, who were all originally human. They don’t even believe that their god was the first one. Their god has a god, who has a god and so forth. They don’t believe in an eternal, uncreated God, an uncaused cause, who created everything. They believe that the only thing that is eternal, in the Catholic sense of the word, is the matter and energy that make up this universe. Their gods aren’t even capable of creating matter or energy, they can only reorganize what’s already there.
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To confuse things further, Zerinus doesn’t believe that God the Father used to be human. Just visit the recent thread about the King Follet Discourse to see his posts about that. It just goes to show you how inconsistent Mormon beliefs are.
 
AirLiner said:
To confuse things further, Zerinus doesn’t believe that God the Father used to be human. Just visit the recent thread about the King Follet Discourse to see his posts about that. It just goes to show you how inconsistent Mormon beliefs are.
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I guess I would have to visit the thread.
Until then, I think I would ask Zerinius directly here if I had a problem with his statements.
He was very polite to me.
All I had to do was ask for clarity.
 
Mormonism’s big selling point, the one they emphasize in the missionary lessons, is the need for ongoing revelation to guide the members and the belief that they are led by a living prophet.

But Zerinus, a sola scriptura Mormon, does not believe anything the living prophets teach unless and until it is canonized in their scriptures, which happens very rarely and usually only happens many decades after the teaching is first taught.

So Zerinus has rejected most of the deepest and most unique Mormon teachings, including the King Follet Discourse, eternal progression and and other things that are taught in their current Sunday school, priesthood and seminary manuals. He doesn’t know it yet, but he also rejects most of what is taught in the temple endowment.

Weird.
 
Some are in sheep’s clothing here on the forums.

Leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints alone — Catholicism certainly is not loved by its enemies.
 
thecourt said:
Some are in sheep’s clothing here on the forums.

Leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints alone — Catholicism certainly is not loved by its enemies.
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What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying that falsehoods should not be challenged? Are you saying that mistakes should not be corrected? And certainly you’re not saying that attacks should not be defended against… are you?
 
cyberjacques said:
What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying that falsehoods should not be challenged? Are you saying that mistakes should not be corrected? And certainly you’re not saying that attacks should not be defended against… are you?
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I DID look at your blog, and maybe it is time we started looking at what we can agree on instead of what we can argue about. There are many issues socially we have in common (Mormons and Catholics) and it is time we put on a united front on some of these social issues. Evil is everywhere and I agree it is time we stood together on “the right side”.
 
mfbukowski said:
I DID look at your blog, and maybe it is time we started looking at what we can agree on instead of what we can argue about. There are many issues socially we have in common (Mormons and Catholics) and it is time we put on a united front on some of these social issues. Evil is everywhere and I agree it is time we stood together on “the right side”.
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Thank you for reading my blog, I appreciate it. And I’m glad we can agree on those things. But religiously and theologically we are at odds on many things. It’s not reasonable to expect someone to remain silent about things they think are wrong, especially if they believe that people are hurt or led astray by them. I believe this about Mormonism, and I will continue to tell people what Mormonism teaches, as charitably as I can, in the hopes that fewer of them are hurt or led astray by it. And you can be sure that I will defend Catholicism against the attacks that some Mormons make towards it.
 
cyberjacques said:
Thank you for reading my blog, I appreciate it. And I’m glad we can agree on those things. But religiously and theologically we are at odds on many things. It’s not reasonable to expect someone to remain silent about things they think are wrong, especially if they believe that people are hurt or led astray by them. I believe this about Mormonism, and I will continue to tell people what Mormonism teaches, as charitably as I can, in the hopes that fewer of them are hurt or led astray by it. And you can be sure that I will defend Catholicism against the attacks that some Mormons make towards it.
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The real problem, quite frankly, is that “what Mormonism teaches” is not even remotely understood on these blogs. Having you describe Mormonism is like having an Evangelical describe Catholicism, and frankly, to Mormons it would be about as persuasive as some evangelical talking to you about Catholicism. It would be nice to stick to what we can agree on, but I suppose human nature will not allow it. Mostly all we see here is straw men being demolished, and the mormons know it.

We have a real fight going here in california and you have nailed the issues, and it is a pity we don’t work together.
 
mfbukowski said:
The real problem, quite frankly, is that “what Mormonism teaches” is not even remotely understood on these blogs.
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I beg to differ. Catholicism is well documented, both internally and externally. So is Mormonism. The meat can no longer hide behind the milk, so to speak. It’s all out there for the whole world to see. Frankly I’m not worried. Catholicism has nothing to hide. It never has. But apparently Mormonism does, considering the fact that Mormons will come on this forum and deny things that their church used to teach and recorded as doctrine, but has since changed, and things that they still teach, that are published in current Sunday school books and articles written by their prophets and church authorities.

Again, I’m glad that we agree on so many social issues, and so far the theological differences between us have not prevented us from cooperating in the social arena. Let’s pray they never do. But that’s not what this forum is about. Agreement isn’t always possible, but clarity is. I want everyone here to be crystal clear on what our two religions teach. I know what my religion teaches, what it has always taught, and I can demonstrate it from a hundred different sources, both ancient and modern. But the assertions about the teachings of Mormonism that people like zerinus make cannot be supported by anything. If you cannot acknowledge that, then I don’t know how to help you.
 
zerinus said:
It is true that some early Apostles of the Church had incorrectly expressed anti-Catholic sentiments; but that was misguided, and is not a position held by the LDS Church today.

When any religion claims to have prophets who make mistakes, whose misguided teachings or interpretations of scripture and their religion can be changed or corrected an immediate problem becomes apparent.

If an earlier prophet’s teaching is correected by a later one, how do you know the latest teaching is correct, or any teaching of a prophet is correct? It might get changed in the future.

When you say an early prophet taught X, but that teaching was misguided you are saying he misguided all the Mormon population who regarded him as the prophet of God, the man who speaks for God. That is what prophets do. If he was speaking for God what went wrong?

In fact this is the problem with Protestantism’s view of the Church. The Church got this and that wrong, went off track, but now we have it corrected. The result of this false view is that it unleashes a never ending series of disputes and corrections and the emergence within Protestantism of denominationalism. They all have some doctrine they decided needed fixing. Something always needs fixing in this system. The next generation comes along and fixes the earlier mistakes. But Jesus promised to lead His Church into all truth and be with her until the end of time.

Mormonism has prophets who make errors that can be corrected by their successors. Accordingly, the teaching of this religion changes from time to time. An example of this is the abominable Mormon belief that Mary had sex with the being they call god the father. They no longer teach that, so some Mormons who were never taught it may think it was never taught.

If the men they call prophets were mistaken or misguided about matters of faith in the past, and the man they now call prophet could be corrected by a future prophet, how do they know that what they believe today, what Mormonism and their prophet teaches today is true?

There is no stable doctrine. The best we can say is, we think this is true. We might be right. We are right today unless a future prophet changes things.

If one is a Mormon today how do you know the things you are being taught are correct, that they will not be repudiated in the future?

When the precepts of one’s religion are subject to correction one does not know which things might get corrected and changed in the future. That means one also does not know which current beliefs will not need correction and be stable.

Everything that is false will perish. Truth will endure to the end, last forever. When a religion makes claims that are false and then its followers realize that and try to correct them, they or their prophet are admitting it is a false religion.
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the_phoenix said:
Hi zerinus:

Just wanted to let you know that I somehow clicked on your thread here by accident, but wanted to compliment you on the astronomy picture in your signature. Gotta love that horsehead nebula of Orion.

That said, I will now bow out gracefully, being that I’m a happy cradle Catholic who feels to be in no need of debate at this time. 😃

~~ the phoenix
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The image I had on yesterdy was not of the Horse Head Nebula. That was a differnet image. The image of today is of the Horse Head Nebula. But hurry up and look, because I might change it tomorrow! 🙂

zerinus
 
stcalixtus said:
As a Catholic I would rather live next door to LDS then someone who does not believe in God…at least we are on the same page eh? we organized christian churches should get along for there are so many Godless people in this world…peace be with you:highprayer:
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I think that Mormons and Catholics (and their respective churches) get along just fine. It is only apostates and anti-Mormons (masquerading as Catholics) that like everyone to think otherwise.

zerinus
 
RobHom said:
I agree 100% with you!!

On a purely lighter note… There was one Mormon who hurt my feelings…😦 It was in the 8th grade. A very nice young lady in my class… I asked her to go to a dance with me…she said “No”. But we were still friends…😃
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You have to ask again. You don’t take no for an answer! 😃

zerinus
 
AirLiner said:
Zerinus, you agree with how its wrong to portray other faiths in inaccurate ways yet you wrote a whole blog about how Catholics worship Mary. Now even some Protestans agree that that’s veneration and respect, not worship. Isn’t writing a blog about how we worship Mary portraying our faith inaccurately?
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No offence was intended. To me praying to a supernatural being (which is what Mary is now, because she is not in this world any more) is an act of worship. Now if you genuinely believe that is not worship, fine, we agree to disagree.

If you disagree with what I have written, and think that you have a persuasive argument for it, you are welcome to add it as a comment to that article in my Blog. I promise you I will not delete it. Then you have had your say, and other people can judge it for themselves.

zerinus
 
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