Where Have All The Apostates And Anti-Mormons Gone?

[RebeccaJ]

We get to think for ourselves. We even get to interpret scripture. We have no magesterium doing it for us. It’s called freedom. You should try it sometime

Your church interprets scripture for you. I don’t know how you can claim it doesn’t and keep a straight face. JS rewrote the entire NT to match his personal interpretation and your KJV Bible and other LDS scriptures have been cross-referenced to that interpretation. Why? If not to ensure the you interpret scripture to JS personal interpretation?

Google understanding scripture site:lds.org
and tell me what all those links are doing, if not telling you how to interpret scripture.

Be honest. What you object to is God’s Church interpreting scripture for you.

 

[hosemonkey]

We get to think for ourselves. We even get to interpret scripture. We have no magesterium doing it for us. It’s called freedom. You should try it sometime

Boy, you sure stepped in it that time, Ski. I figured you were smarter than to make a howler like that.

 

[AirLiner]

ah! once again I am ignored. I am simply asking questions about your “testimony”. Maybe since its not real there was no extraordinary accumulation of previously unknown knowledge and whatnot.

I think that the “testimony” is one of the most important things holding mormonism together. Without it Mormons would have to use reason and their beliefs fall apart. The “testimony” forces Mormons to twist reality into a mormon biased mess. Too bad ignorance still prevailed in our attempt to discredit it. The mormons on here even ignored the Bible passage warning not to trust your heart.

An unexplainable feeling is still just a feeling. An ignorant person who is not aware of all the possible feelings in the world could proclaim any undescribable feeling as divine. If a young child with a small vocabulary feels something they dont’ have a word for should they call it divine? No.

Just because you think you felt the Holy Spirit doesn’t mean you actually did. Look at the circumstances where these “testimonies” take place. The unexplainable experiences always happen after someone says that it will happen. The experiences dont happen all of a sudden by themselves. Suggestion should be suspected.

True miracles are unexplainable extraordinary events. They have happened several times in the Catholic Church. An undescrible feeling doesnt compare to these true miracles.

I guess a more relevant question is why dont mormons use reason to figure out the truth? What is wrong with reasoning and logic? Why not use reason to evaluate whether the BOM is true? Oh wait thats right, if you use reason it all falls apart. So i guess mormons are willing to delude themselves with their “testimonies” because reason would tear their doctrines apart and they *like *their doctrines.

So maybe the biggest mystery of all in this is how is it possible that anyone would personally like mormon doctrine?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Boy, you sure stepped in it that time, Ski. I figured you were smarter than to make a howler like that.

We aren’t fooled into believing the Majesterium has given us doctrinal free-or all. We have no slight of hand, where the Majesterium is there saying, “you are free to interpret…this is what your free interpretation should be…” :bounce: Mormons are so freeeeee!!! :bounce:

 

[RebeccaJ]

ah! once again I am ignored. I am simply asking questions about your “testimony”. Maybe since its not real there was no extraordinary accumulation of previously unknown knowledge and whatnot.

I think that the “testimony” is one of the most important things holding mormonism together. Without it Mormons would have to use reason and their beliefs fall apart. The “testimony” forces Mormons to twist reality into a mormon biased mess. Too bad ignorance still prevailed in our attempt to discredit it. The mormons on here even ignored the Bible passage warning not to trust your heart.

An unexplainable feeling is still just a feeling. An ignorant person who is not aware of all the possible feelings in the world could proclaim any undescribable feeling as divine. If a young child with a small vocabulary feels something they dont’ have a word for should they call it divine? No.

Just because you think you felt the Holy Spirit doesn’t mean you actually did. Look at the circumstances where these “testimonies” take place. The unexplainable experiences always happen after someone says that it will happen. The experiences dont happen all of a sudden by themselves. Suggestion should be suspected.

True miracles are unexplainable extraordinary events. They have happened several times in the Catholic Church. An undescrible feeling doesnt compare to these true miracles.

I guess a more relevant question is why dont mormons use reason to figure out the truth? What is wrong with reasoning and logic? Why not use reason to evaluate whether the BOM is true? Oh wait thats right, if you use reason it all falls apart. So i guess mormons are willing to delude themselves with their “testimonies” because reason would tear their doctrines apart and they *like *their doctrines.

So maybe the biggest mystery of all in this is how is it possible that anyone would personally like mormon doctrine?

You just described the Mormon conversion method. Hand a book to someone, say read it, and WHEN you feel a good feeling that is the Holy Ghost telling you the book is true.

First, power of suggestion. Second, interpreting another person’s feelings for them.

The co-op of members feelings continues…feel bad? the Holy Ghost has left you. Feel good? The Holy Ghost is with you. Feel afraid and don’t know why?..Satan is close by.

 

[AirLiner]

You just described the Mormon conversion method. Hand a book to someone, say read it, and WHEN you feel a good feeling that is the Holy Ghost telling you the book is true.

First, power of suggestion. Second, interpreting another person’s feelings for them.

The co-op of members feelings continues…feel bad? the Holy Ghost has left you. Feel good? The Holy Ghost is with you. Feel afraid and don’t know why?..Satan is close by.

Yes but after learning about the power of suggestion and those things why do they still delude themselves? Because they like mormon teachings? Like I said, the biggest mystery may be why would anyone like mormon doctrine?

 

[1holycatholic]

I think that the “testimony” is one of the most important things holding mormonism together. Without it Mormons would have to use reason and their beliefs fall apart.

For proof of that you need look no further than the Mormon posts in the philosophy subforums. I am embarrassed for them.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Yes but after learning about the power of suggestion and those things why do they still delude themselves? Because they like mormon teachings? Like I said, the biggest mystery may be why would anyone like mormon doctrine?

Mormonism isn’t just a doctrine, it is a way of life, that is tied to everything you do, think, say, even how you dress and what you eat. It is a culture. When a person converts to Mormonism, they have to convert to the Mormon culture. To leave Mormonism, you have to leave the Mormon culture.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

We get to think for ourselves. We even get to interpret scripture. We have no magesterium doing it for us. It’s called freedom. You should try it sometime

I have freedom, we all do. It’s called free will given to us by God. It’s through free will that I choose to be obedient to Him.

What do you do when several Mormons have several different interpretations of scriptures?

Since you have no “magisterium” to “think” for you, maybe now you can talk about the Mormon temple ceremony. What exactly goes on during that ceremony?

 

[hosemonkey]

Yes but after learning about the power of suggestion and those things why do they still delude themselves? Because they like mormon teachings? Like I said, the biggest mystery may be why would anyone like mormon doctrine?

Just a thought, but for some men looking at mormonism, they like the idea of “priesthood” leadership (read dominance) over their wives (especially that temple “secret name” folderol) the prospect of “godhood”(“My own planet” Wow!!), the eternal sex thing. For certain men, this might have great appeal. Also the erroneous idea of “eternal togetherness” might have some attraction. I strongly disbelieve that most men are attracted by mormon “doctrine”, I think that it’s the perks that get 'em. What appeal mormonism has for women is totally beyond me, given the fact that they are third-class citizens.

 

[mfbukowski]

Yes but after learning about the power of suggestion and those things why do they still delude themselves? Because they like mormon teachings? Like I said, the biggest mystery may be why would anyone like mormon doctrine?

Because we have a testimony.

 

[Matariel]

Because we have a testimony.

So? Everyone has a testimony of something. That’s ultra-subjective.

Sorry, you just sound so… brainwashed.

I guess it’s not really funny, it’s sad…

 

[Stephen168]

I think that the “testimony” is one of the most important things holding mormonism together. Without it Mormons would have to use reason and their beliefs fall apart. The “testimony” forces Mormons to twist reality into a mormon biased mess.

For proof of that you need look no further than the Mormon posts in the philosophy subforums. I am embarrassed for them.

Because we have a testimony.

Yes, very embarrassing

 

[hosemonkey]

Because we have a testimony.

In the Wizard of Oz, the Tin Man got a heart, The Cowardly Lion got a medal and the Scarecrow got a Diploma. The Wizard gives the mormons a “testimony.” Is that anything like a diploma? Maybe not. Oh well.

 

[alanjeddy]

If I were a Mormon I would not look forward to standing before Jesus WHEN TIME GIVES WAY TO ETERNITY for each of us will have to do that when we die. Mormons do not accept the sovereignty of Christ. Jesus said he who sees the Son sees the Father and nobody comes to the Father accept through me…In trinitarian theology The Father, Son (Jesus) and Holy Spirit are one in Being.

 

[why_me]

If I were a Mormon I would not look forward to standing before Jesus WHEN TIME GIVES WAY TO ETERNITY for each of us will have to do that when we die. Mormons do not accept the sovereignty of Christ. Jesus said he who sees the Son sees the Father and nobody comes to the Father accept through me…In trinitarian theology The Father, Son (Jesus) and Holy Spirit are one in Being.

This is what I know: When a mormon family starts the morning, they (as a family) kneel in prayer thanking heavenly father for the beautiful day and asking for safety to live the day. In the evening they kneel down in prayer as a family, and thank heavenly father for all the blessing that they have experienced throughout the day. All in Jesus’ name. Mormons are a prayerful lot. They thank heavenly father for the food before each meal, study the scriptures with a prayer in their heart.

I have this feeling that mormons will be given some slack when they get to heaven.

 

[why_me]

In the Wizard of Oz, the Tin Man got a heart, The Cowardly Lion got a medal and the Scarecrow got a Diploma. The Wizard gives the mormons a “testimony.” Is that anything like a diploma? Maybe not. Oh well.

When a mormon claims to have a testimony, they are actually saying that they have a witness of the truthfulness of their church.

How do you know that the catholic church is true? It is through reason or faith or both? Did the holy ghost bear witness to you that it is true? Or is something that you believe without question?

 

[1holycatholic]

How do you know that the catholic church is true? It is through reason or faith or both? Did the holy ghost bear witness to you that it is true? Or is something that you believe without question?

Fides et Ratio.

BTW, it’s the Catholic Church, or simply the Church. :yup:

 

[hosemonkey]

When a mormon claims to have a testimony, they are actually saying that they have a witness of the truthfulness of their church.

Then that witness must be totally subjective, because there is no other evidence for the “truthfulness” of mormonism. The “spirit” that tells mormons that their “church” is true is not the Holy Spirit that guides the Catholic Church, but is instead the spirit of the Deceiver.

 

[CarolinNC]

To Whyme:

I don’t think anyone is Catholic by reason alone. Faith, trust and a great love for the Trinity and the teachings of Jesus (which are the teachings of his Church) are what inspire us to be Catholic.

As a Mormon I tried very hard to believe what was taught and to be a faithful Mormon, but when I had questions, I was told that I didn’t have enough faith, I didn’t pray enough or I was a sinful person and that the Holy Ghost had turned away from me, because of my sinful acts. (A long and painful story, that I won’t go into here.) Anyway no one can fool or frighten me with Mormon garbage, any longer.

I have a ginormous testimony of the truthfulness of the Catholic faith, and it is born out of love, trust and faithfulness.

May the Lord be praised, may He always be praised.