Where in scripture does it state "to accept Christ as our personal Lord and Savior"?"

[distracted]

distracted, just in case that was for me :slapfight: =

so much for “Love your neighbor as yourself”

 

[inocente]

Apologies if you took umbrage. I posted what I think the phrase means having heard it amongst Baptists and Pentecostals, and didn’t mean any more than that. Honest governor.

I’d take you up on your offer to discuss it further, but have learned that on this kind of thing we will probably never have a meaning of minds - that’s what the smilies meant, I’d just want to sit it out. It kind of sapped my will to live last time around.

Another thing that is sapping my will to live is that my wife just told me we’re going to a fancy dress party in an hour. Party fine, but fancy dress?

 

[distracted]

Apologies if you took umbrage. I posted what I think the phrase means having heard it amongst Baptists and Pentecostals, and didn’t mean any more than that. Honest governor.

I’d take you up on your offer to discuss it further, but have learned that on this kind of thing we will probably never have a meaning of minds - that’s what the smilies meant, I’d just want to sit it out. It kind of sapped my will to live last time around.

Another thing that is sapping my will to live is that my wife just told me we’re going to a fancy dress party in an hour. Party fine, but fancy dress?

you know, i really don’t know waht you are talking about here… what orginal post you are referring to… you said that if i was referring to you… [etc]

referring to you about WHAT??

:banghead:

 

[JRRTFAN]

Where in scripture does it state “to accept Christ as our personal Lord and Savior”?

It doesn’t, but, conceptually it is accurate if you define the word accept to mean follow, believe and implement.

It doesn’t if you define “accept” as come forward at an altar call, say the sinners prayer and read some of the free “helpful literature” that they give you. That concept is a dog that won’t hunt

Definitions are helpful: “He who believes in him shall have everlasting life”. Believes is in the present tense but your statement has to define what “believes” means. Mr. Bin Laden “believes” in the United States but he sure doesn’t “believe” in it the same way a soldier serving a 4th tour in the middle east does. The former is flawed, the latter is not.

 

[ConstantineTG]

i have noticed that a lot of protestants paraphrase the Bible a LOT… and to the point of it meaning something entirely differently than intended… I think Joel Olsteen is one of the worst offenders in this…

strange since they claim to adhere to the Word … and claim to adhere to it FAR better than Catholics who - according to them… invent stuff like Purgatory and indlulgences and etc… (the Church did not “invent” Purgatory… The concept is in Scripture, but even if it weren’t, the Catholic Church doesn’t just willy-nilly invent doctrines…)

anyhow… just strange how the pot is always calling the supposed kettle black…

Yes, inventing purgatory and indulgences are far worse than taking words off the bible and inventing the translation

 

[Alan55]

amazing… that you say all this and we still don’t (or i don’t) know exactly where YOU yourself are coming from about it all… I mean, there for awhile, in the begining of your post you sounded unCatholic yourself…

I’m a Catholic who’s been in hundreds of Protestant church services over the years and endured the evangelical double-speak like “personal relationship with Jesus.” Protestants get all huffy when you call them on their anti-Catholic code phrases, but they spend a whole lot of their time attempting to turn Catholic Christians into Protestant Christians – and doing so dishonestly in my opinion – so they have it coming.

I’m sorry if my lengthy post was confusing.

 

[distracted]

I’m a Catholic who’s been in hundreds of Protestant church services over the years and endured the evangelical double-speak like “personal relationship with Jesus.” Protestants get all huffy when you call them on their anti-Catholic code phrases, but they spend a whole lot of their time attempting to turn Catholic Christians into Protestant Christians – and doing so dishonestly in my opinion – so they have it coming.

I’m sorry if my lengthy post was confusing.

well, one things for sure… THIS post wasn’t… ’

 

[distracted]

The difference about Catholics and these Evangelical Protestants is that for Catholics, our Personal Relationship with Christ is indistinguishable with our relationship with the entire Church. Christ told us that what we do to the least of our bretheren, we do unto Him. So loving our bretheren is the same as loving God, and loving God is helping the least of our bretheren. There is no distinction, it goes hand in hand.

When we receive Jesus in the Eucharist, we don’t receive Him just for ourselves. The Eucharist not only binds us to Christ, we are also bound to His Church, which means we are binded to everyone in Communion with Christ through the Eucharist.

So its really hard for a Catholic to say that he or she has a personal relationship with Christ, because being part of the True Church of Christ, our relationship with God and with one another are intertwined and indistinguishable.

i had a hard time w/ the word “personal” in that phrase long b4 i realized this Catholic… uh… way of being communal…

but maybe that’s cuz i have always been Catholic even when i wasn’t totally living as one…

i dont know why they can’t just say Jesus is my Savior… That sounds SO much better…

 

[distracted]

Yes, inventing purgatory and indulgences are far worse than taking words off the bible and inventing the translation ::

i was speaking 2 a Baptist minister the other day… asking him what all he believed in… He was totally against abortoin even in rape / incest… which i thought was SO cool… rather surprised me… Then we agreed on some other stuff (can’t recall) but then he ruined it by saying he believed in eternal securty. I told him about a case of a serial murderer who had once been “born again”… then went on a killing spree… He (not surprisingly) said that all those who claim to be born again are not… but i know from personal experience that just having gone thro that expereince does NOT mean you will never want to (or actually do) a mortal sin. He didn’t seem to want to talk once i disagreed w/ him on something, so i never got around to telling him about the experiences I’v had… but i have committed many mortal sins after being… filled w/ t he Spirit, as the Catholics call it. That was yrs ago… and thanks be to God i found the Church & started getting my soul cleansed…

i dont know where nonCthlics (some) get this notion that whne you are born-again you won’t sin in a big way. If you aren’t catechized (lke me) you will not realize how damaging sin is (until you experience the consequneces ) … True, i never went on a killing spree (thought about murder tho… one of my exes )… but I’ve done awful things after being “saved” (hate that phrase cuz it implies its a one time event… the Bible clearly says it is a process) Work out your salvatoin w/ fear & trembling (James 2:12)

 

[brb3]

i have committed many mortal sins after being… filled w/ t he Spirit, as the Catholics call it. That was yrs ago… and thanks be to God i found the Church & started getting my soul cleansed…

So … now, after many years of learning to repent of your ‘mortals’, being led of God confess and receive full restoration IN CHRIST …

Do you now believe in Eternal Security ? Would Christ ever let you down [let go of you] … if you sincerely desire to see the KOH, and pray often for that eventuality ?

I think this is what Protestants mean when they speak of E.S. … although they don’t always say as much in their explanations.

 

[Alan55]

i was speaking 2 a Baptist minister the other day… asking him what all he believed in… He was totally against abortoin even in rape / incest… which i thought was SO cool… rather surprised me… Then we agreed on some other stuff (can’t recall) but then he ruined it by saying he believed in eternal securty. I told him about a case of a serial murderer who had once been “born again”… then went on a killing spree… He (not surprisingly) said that all those who claim to be born again are not… but i know from personal experience that just having gone thro that expereince does NOT mean you will never want to (or actually do) a mortal sin. …i dont know where nonCthlics (some) get this notion that whne you are born-again you won’t sin in a big way. If you aren’t catechized (lke me) you will not realize how damaging sin is (until you experience the consequneces ) … True, i never went on a killing spree (thought about murder tho… one of my exes )… but I’ve done awful things after being “saved” (hate that phrase cuz it implies its a one time event… the Bible clearly says it is a process) Work out your salvatoin w/ fear & trembling (James 2:12

I think that there’s a lot of intellectual dishonesty involved around the notion of “eternal security.” If a person “backslides” after being “saved,” many evangelical protestants will do what your Baptist friend did and say they were never saved in the first place! Which begs the question, how do you know you’re saved? This question caused a lot of concern among Protestants in the 18th century, for example (as reported in biographies of Jonathan Edward, for example). In the contemporary evangelical churches, they point to the bright line of praying the sinner’s prayer, but then kick dirt on that line when the person who was saved lives a sinful, unchristian life. Another thing to consider is the common phenomenon of Catholics who ask Jesus to forgive them and invite Jesus into their hearts to be their Lord and Savior. That should be enough for an evangelical, right? Yet it never is. As long as the Catholic is not re-baptized and joins an evangelical church, the evangelicals will always question whether the Catholic is saved. Go figure. Intellectual consistency? Not so much.

 

[distracted]

can’t say i u/stand this post??

So … now, after many years of learning to repent of your ‘mortals’, being led of God confess and receive full restoration IN CHRIST …

huh??? i have been to confession a zillion times since i came back… if that’s what you are saying (?)

Do you now believe in Eternal Security ?

absolutely not. I think born-agains go to Hell if they do not do what Jesus says… and Jesus wants us to belong to HIS Church so if they stay away from that… well, God knows…

Would Christ ever let you down [let go of you] … if you sincerely desire to see the KOH, and pray often for that eventuality ?

KOH???

I think this is what Protestants mean when they speak of E.S. … although they don’t always say as much in their explanations.

Jesus doesn’t let go of anyone but we let go of Him… If we do so without realizing it, He draws us back… He calls everyone… (even those who do realize it… )

the Church teaches that if a person dies in mortal sin, he goes to Hell… I totally believe this… Mortal sin is what it says it is … mortal… meaning it kills your “thing” with God… destroys holiness in your soul… brings death (spriitual)… If that sin is not forgiven and expiated… you won’t get into Heaven…

 

[distracted]

I think that there’s a lot of intellectual dishonesty involved around the notion of “eternal security.” If a person “backslides” after being “saved,” many evangelical protestants will do what your Baptist friend did and say they were never saved in the first place! Which begs the question, how do you know you’re saved? This question caused a lot of concern among Protestants in the 18th century, for example (as reported in biographies of Jonathan Edward, for example). In the contemporary evangelical churches, they point to the bright line of praying the sinner’s prayer, but then kick dirt on that line when the person who was saved lives a sinful, unchristian life. Another thing to consider is the common phenomenon of Catholics who ask Jesus to forgive them and invite Jesus into their hearts to be their Lord and Savior. That should be enough for an evangelical, right? Yet it never is. As long as the Catholic is not re-baptized and joins an evangelical church, the evangelicals will always question whether the Catholic is saved. Go figure. Intellectual consistency? Not so much.

yeah… i hear ya…

i never thought about that last thing you say… but i am sure its true… even tho haven’t had much experience in that… There’s something about me that makes evangelicals give up almost as soon as they start talking to me… I must “reek” of Catholicism… Dyed in the Wool type… They sense its hopeless

kinda makes you wonder… if they don’t believe you’re saved even after saying the sinner’s prayer…(if you stay Catholic)… and you have to join their church and all… Could it be they are just wanting your $$$??

hmmm…

 

[jmcrae]

kinda makes you wonder… if they don’t believe you’re saved even after saying the sinner’s prayer…(if you stay Catholic)… and you have to join their church and all… Could it be they are just wanting your $$$??

They could (and probably do) say the same about us - after all, we believe that you have to be a member of the Church, to be saved.

 

[PJM]

=alid35;6905269]Where in scripture does it state “to accept Christ as our personal Lord and Savior”?

Exodus 20:

The FIRST COMMANDMENT:thumbsup:

 

[distracted]

They could (and probably do) say the same about us - after all, we believe that you have to be a member of the Church, to be saved.

yes but we dont teach that you have to give $$ to the Church to be a member…

well, it might be IMPLIED somewhat… .when the basket is passed around…

hmmm…:coffeeread:

 

[distracted]

They could (and probably do) say the same about us - after all, we believe that you have to be a member of the Church, to be saved.

not all Cathlics agree on this…

JP II certainly didn’t seem to even believe that you had to be Christian to be saved… according to the Dimond Bros…

 

[brb3]

I think born-agains go to Hell if they do not do what Jesus says… and Jesus wants us to belong to HIS Church so if they stay away from that… well, God knows…

Its good to know you were told not to be a judge of others …

For, our Popes & priests believe the Protestant born-agains will see God and his Kingdom. :yup:

Paul even teaches that ALL of Israel WILL BE SAVED [Rom. 11] … in the final analysis, it’s a MYSTERY how it will happen … yet Paul is definitive about this.

This is why some recent/current Popes have said that MOST will ultimately be saved. The brilliant ECF Origen also came to this conclusion towards the end of his life.