Where in the bible does it INARGUEABLELY show that after we die we are alive (ie. the saints can hear us,etc)

[peso73]

Is this Catholic Teaching? It is “appointed unto man once to die, and after that, the judgement”, but there is a judgement on the last day…

right, so it seems weird, like 2 judgements, although I have read about the particular judgement, individual one after we die and the general judgement at the end of time, as sort of a final and public display before the universe of God’s judgement or something like that, it seems kind of strange, though, would we be up in heaven and then be interrupted to return to earth to stand on the Lord’s right hand for a little while while those who are alive at the time get to watch as those on the left get toasted?
These are disturbing thoughts

 

[tm30]

right, so it seems weird, like 2 judgements, although I have read about the particular judgement, individual one after we die and the general judgement at the end of time, as sort of a final and public display before the universe of God’s judgement or something like that, it seems kind of strange, though, would we be up in heaven and then be interrupted to return to earth to stand on the Lord’s right hand for a little while while those who are alive at the time get to watch as those on the left get toasted?
These are disturbing thoughts

The final judgment paves the way for the creation of the new heaven and new earth. The wicked are gone forever. So, although it seems a bit ghoulish at first glance, it’s purpose is more along the lines of emptying the trash.

 

[rwoehmke]

The final judgment paves the way for the creation of the new heaven and new earth. The wicked are gone forever. So, although it seems a bit ghoulish at first glance, it’s purpose is more along the lines of emptying the trash.

In the final judgment we see all that others have done in their lives as well as their final end. All of which is to show forth God’s justice.

 

[peso73]

In the final judgment we see all that others have done in their lives as well as their final end. All of which is to show forth God’s justice.

Doesn’t it seem like once everyone saw their lives in the light of God, they’d repent and want forgiveness even though they may not have previously? This has always bothered me, I am pretty sure I am in no way more merciful than God, but if were up to me, no one would be eternally punished. I have always wrestled with how the gospel was such “good news” when if one had not heard it, they’d be judged by the light they were given, and would not have as much to worry about…(i.e. Listen every one, this is so great, you can live forever in paradise, just follow these insanely hard rules for life! Oh, by the way if you don’t believe us you will be in eternal agony! What good news!) I would rather not have been born than go to hell, as I am sure anyone else in hell, would agree…but I guess that’s a different “thread”…unfortunately or fortuneatly my parents instilled in me a belief God and Christ I found unable to shake…hopefully I can come to peace with it all sooner rather than later

 

[guanophore]

Daniel:

How do you account for the Scripture relating Peter’s raising of Tabitha at the command of his voice? Are you going to say she wasn’t really dead?

She was dead. For the Jew, the body without a soul is no longer alive.

 

[guanophore]

Particular judgment, i.e., you alone in front of Jesus, occurs at your death. If you receive the reward of eternal life, you are not subject to the final, general judgment of the wicked at the end, wherein they will suffer the eternal death.

How does this fit in with the great white throne judgement, where the sheep are separated (corporately) from the goats?

 

[po18guy]

Peso73, the existence of 10,000/20,000/30,000/1 Billion(?) Protestant denominations is clear evidence that every letter, let alone word, in the bible is arguable. To those 50% Christians who have only the bible, each word in it is argued, by millions of adherents of thousands of denominations, ad infinitum. Without One Authority, and Sacred Tradition, the printed word loses its meaning and value. The Body of Christ disintegrates, and evil triumphs. If we provide scriptural evidence, you may easily dispute it, because you interpret it differently. The church down the street will then argue with you, and the church across town will argue with them. We are called to unity, as Christ founded one church.

Sacred Scripture - Sacred Tradition. The left and right hands of faith. With one authority to direct and guide us to the narrow gate. Amen. Alleluia.

 

[peso73]

Peso73, the existence of 10,000/20,000/30,000/1 Billion(?) Protestant denominations is clear evidence that every letter, let alone word, in the bible is arguable. To those 50% Christians who have only the bible, each word in it is argued, by millions of adherents of thousands of denominations, ad infinitum. Without One Authority, and Sacred Tradition, the printed word loses its meaning and value. The Body of Christ disintegrates, and evil triumphs. If we provide scriptural evidence, you may easily dispute it, because you interpret it differently. The church down the street will then argue with you, and the church across town will argue with them. We are called to unity, as Christ founded one church.

Sacred Scripture - Sacred Tradition. The left and right hands of faith. With one authority to direct and guide us to the narrow gate. Amen. Alleluia.

oh, well I agree, that is why I became Catholic, I was just asking for ammo…:knight2:

 

[CentralFLJames]

Here are some of the many scriptural evidence of life after death prior to the final resurrection of the body.
Luke 9:28-31:

Some eight days after these sayings, He took along Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming. 30 And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah, 31 who, appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.

Rev 19:9-11:

9 Then he said to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” And he said to me, “These are true words of God.” 10 Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Luke 23:39-43:

39 One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!” 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 “And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” 43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

1 Peter 3:18-19:

18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison (purgatory)

1 Peter 4:6:

6 For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead (waiting in “paradise”), that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.

2 Corinthians 12:2-4:

2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven (“paradise”). 3 And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows— 4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.

Luke 16:19-26:

19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20 “And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 “Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 “In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 “And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25 “But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 ‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’

Acts 1:24-26:

24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25 to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26 And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.

A few more: Lk 16:19-31, Mt 17:1-5, 1 Sam 28:1-20, 1 Sam 28:19, Gen 25:17
Eccl 12:7, Isa. 14:9-11, Ps 90:10-12, Rev 6:9-11, Lk 20:37-38

James

 

[po18guy]

oh, well I agree, that is why I became Catholic, I was just asking for ammo…:knight2:

Well, all the others have provided lots! I will say that only the Holy Spirit can change their minds. They have been programmed to think you and I are idol worshippers. Take them to prayer. They cannot resist the Holy Spirit.

Christ’s peace.

 

[deb1]

I don’t know how much clearer it gets than this:

Acts 9:36-40

And in Joppe there was a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas. This woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did. 37 And it came to pass in those days that she was sick, and died. Whom when they had washed, they laid her in an upper chamber. 38 And forasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppe, the disciples hearing that Peter was there, sent unto him two men, desiring him that he would not be slack to come unto them. And Peter rising up, went with them. And when he was come, they brought him into the upper chamber. And all the widows stood about him weeping, and shewing him the coats and garments which Dorcas made them.
And they all being put forth, Peter kneeling down prayed, and turning to the body, he said: Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes; and seeing Peter, she sat up.

You can throw in Jesus’ raising of Lazarus at the sound of His voice for good measure, too.

I am sorry. I read the passage but I don’t see how it can be used to prove either side of the disagreement.

 

[TheHem]

What about the transfiguration of Jesus. (Matthew 17:1-9, Mark 9:1-8, Luke 9:28-36) Here he is in all His GLORY and right beside him are Moses and Elijah holding a conversation with him all the while Peter, James and John are first hand witness of this experience. Umm?? I’d said these were people ARE very much alive! When I converted to Catholicism, this was a crucial verse for me to accept the Communion of Saints along with the verse in Hebrews. What a beautiful faith we have.

 

[ryanoneil]

How does this fit into the equation? It sure looks like the idea of a sleeping dead person changed after Jesus’ resurrection.

Matthew 27:51
And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split, 52 tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 And coming forth from their tombs after his resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[po18guy]

I am sorry. I read the passage but I don’t see how it can be used to prove either side of the disagreement.

I believe that the point is that the spirit of Tabitha heard Peter calling and returned to her body. This goes hand in hand with Christ telling the Apostles: “He who hears you hears Me” When Christ raised Lazarus, as when Peter raised Tabitha, they spoke audibly to their spirits, and the spirits responded by returning to their bodies.

Also bearing witness to this is Christ when He said “God is not God of the dead, but of the living” He physically revealed this during the transfiguration.

Christ’s peace.

 

[deb1]

I believe that the point is that the spirit of Tabitha heard Peter calling and returned to her body. This goes hand in hand with Christ telling the Apostles: “He who hears you hears Me” When Christ raised Lazarus, as when Peter raised Tabitha, they spoke audibly to their spirits, and the spirits responded by returning to their bodies.

Also bearing witness to this is Christ when He said “God is not God of the dead, but of the living” He physically revealed this during the transfiguration.

Christ’s peace.

Okay, I understand now.

 

[tm30]

I am sorry. I read the passage but I don’t see how it can be used to prove either side of the disagreement.

If the dead can’t hear our prayers, how did Tabitha hear Peter’s voice?

 

[tm30]

Okay, I understand now.

Sorry - didn’t see your follow-up post.

 

[DarkMark]

Many Scriptures has been given that clearly refute the heresy of “Soul-sleep”, but I think the clearest Scripture is Wisdom 3:1-4:

“But the souls of the just are in the hand of God, and the torment of death shall not touch them. In the sight of the unwise they seemed to die: and their departure was taken for misery: And their going away from us, for utter destruction: but they are in peace. And though in the sight of men they suffered torments, their hope is full of immortality”.

But of course, Protestants will have trouble finding this Scripture in there Bibles

The word “sleep” is a metaphor for death and does not means that the soul is “sleeping”.

In 2 Cor. 12:2-4, he describes a person [we know its St. Paul] as being completely conscious while out of the body as well as when the person was in the body. The soul did not cease to exist while out of his body, if it was. To be “outside of the Body” and yet still hear the mystery of heaven proves that a soul/spirit can be separated from the Body and yet still remain fully conscious. If this is possible, then at the moment of death the soul separates and remain fully conscious either in the presence of God or suffering in Hades or in the state of purgatory.

One cannot simply go around this.