Where in the Bible does it say to not eat meat on Friday's of Lent?

[Sirach2]

:thankyou: Thank you for your comments, friend. I think it gives some people a rush and big head to try and put down the Catholic Church. Many have tried, and yes, it is obvious.

 

[dronald]

Excellent starting point. So where does he say
don’t have prescribed fasting days?
For instance a Baptist minister friend of mine invited
me to dinner two Driday nights ago. Roast goat- Cabrito.
I begged off.
My Catholic friends knew why as all one hundred of
us attend the same Mass and knew that was a fasting
day.
The Baptist does not. So… Bbecause my Catholic
friends knew but the Baptist did not have I lost my
reward in Heaven according to you?

No. I don’t know where you got this from, I take no issue with your practice but it’s not necessary.

 

[dronald]

An outdated translation? So… What the Bible teaches and how it’s to be interpreted changes over time?

As others have pointed out, this is a strawman we don’t do it to be better than others.

Oh, trust me. You wouldn’t know when I fast. I actually felt less hungry on Ash Wednesday than days I’ve actually eaten. (That’s the power of the Eucharist for ya!)

And we do. Fasting and abstinence aren’t part of natural law, just like Mosaic Law. They’re only binding on Catholics as a form of penance. Which again is Biblical. There are plenty of examples of people in the Bible fasting for their sins.

And actually, it’s not technically sinful to eat meat on Fridays during Lent. Or at least, the meat itself is not the sin. The sin would be not listening to the legitimate authority Christ bestowed upon the apostles (and their successors). But again, that’s only for Catholics. Non-Catholics don’t have to follow Church teachings, except for the parts that fall under natural law.

A+ Post.

I don’t see your rituals as necessary and you don’t say that we ought to take part in yours. This is what Paul was saying and I couldn’t agree more.

 

[dronald]

Brother,

If you were an observant Jew living in Palestine in the 1st century, and you – along with every other observant Jew in Palestine – were fasting on the eve of Purim or on Yom Kippur… do you really think that it’s logical to suggest that “others [would] not know that you’re fasting”? No… that’s the height of folly. Every Jew would know that each of his fellows were, likewise, fasting!

Therefore, there are only two logical alternatives:
Either… * your interpretation of Scripture is mistaken, since on days of public fast, God wasn’t the only one who would know that you were fasting

• or, the context of the passage you cite is private days of fasting (in which no one would know you were fasting (except God), unless you put on a show of fasting). Of course, this would mean that your case is irrelevant, since you’re attempting to apply a passage of Scripture about private fasting to the practice of public days of fast.

I can’t see any other possibility here. So, which is it? Is your interpretation of Scripture in error, or merely irrelevant to the case at hand?

Peace,
G.

Your theories on what Jesus must have meant based on the cultural norm don’t work for me. Jesus was bringing the moral law to a higher level as He always did and it’s clear with His Words.

Adultery is bad? So is lust.
Murder is bad? So is hate.
Giving is good? If you did it to be seen you did nothing.
Fasting is right? Do it in secret.

Read His Words my friend. What was Jesus trying to say for all the future generations forever?

 

[tdgesq]

No. I don’t know where you got this from, I take no issue with your practice but it’s not necessary.

Is it necessary to abstain from the meat of strangled animals and from blood?

 

[Sirach2]

Your theories on what Jesus must have meant based on the cultural norm don’t work for me. Jesus was bringing the moral law to a higher level as He always did and it’s clear with His Words.

Adultery is bad? So is lust.
Murder is bad? So is hate.
Giving is good? If you did it to be seen you did nothing.
Fasting is right? Do it in secret.

Read His Words my friend. What was Jesus trying to say for all the future generations forever?

He has read them and explained them to you ad nauseum, but you keep spinning the same old yarn that your mind has thunk up. It is comical that you believe that “by much speaking, you will be heard.” It’s called “vain repetition,” bible man. Nor does it mean infallibly that your vain speaking is truth, just because your mind thinks so.

 

[JustStarting]

It is comical that you believe that “by much speaking, you will be heard.” It’s called “vain repetition,” bible man. Nor does it mean infallibly that your vain speaking is truth, just because your mind thinks so.

When your only tool is a hammer, you see every problem as a nail.

 

[dronald]

He has read them and explained them to you ad nauseum, but you keep spinning the same old yarn that your mind has thunk up. It is comical that you believe that “by much speaking, you will be heard.” It’s called “vain repetition,” bible man. Nor does it mean infallibly that your vain speaking is truth, just because your mind thinks so.

Actually, the opposite. I’ve read the words and explained them, no one has explained ***the words ***to me; rather, come up with their own theories.

 

[Sirach2]

Actually, the opposite. I’ve read the words and explained them, no one has explained ***the words ***to me; rather, come up with their own theories.

Live with your own version, then – I think we have exhausted enough effort. Why not go back to your own Church and share the faith with those who are of like mind? No, people come here in their pride, not asking questions, mind you, but striving to teach us a thing or two and tear down our beliefs. How brazen!

A very pertinent link for you to visit, Point #5.

 

[Gorgias]

dronald:

Fasting is right? Do it in secret.

Which, of course, is impossible to do, if you’re fasting in the context of a fast mandated to all believers… which is the experience of Jesus and his audience in this passage. It would have been patently impossible for a Jew to fast “in secret” on Purim.

Now… is Jesus suggesting that, when you fast, you do it in a way that doesn’t draw attention to yourself? Absolutely. That’s a pretty obvious implication of his words. Unfortunately, that explanation renders your literal take on the words void of content – if the meaning is ‘not obvious’, then it is not necessarily ‘unknown’.

I’ve read the words and explained them, no one has explained ***the words ***to me; rather, come up with their own theories.

Reading the words out of context is fruitless; reading them as if they were written in the 21st century is worse. (Not that I’m saying that this is what you’re doing, of course.) However, reading them in the context of the culture, time, and place of the speaker and the audience however… aah–in that case, you have a chance to understand the meaning of “the words”!

Your analysis of the words only works on the literal surface of the words themselves. I appreciate that my analysis of the context in which they were spoken leaves you unconvinced; yet, it’s perfectly logical. If you wish to read the Scriptures as if their narrative happened in a vacuum, that’s your business; yet, it leaves you unable to offer a convincing exegesis.

 

[marywarfield]

Matthew 6:16*“When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 17But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

And while we are at it let me ask something here:
John the Baptist ate honey and locusts. And for thousands
of years we all know this. According to your interpretation
of Scripture a complete waste of time for him to do so
then and he lost out on that old reward.

Jesus fasted for forty days in the desert. Reward? No
He was out of luck as well cause guess what? You and I
and millions more know it. He might as well eaten
cheeseburgers.

 

[dronald]

Live with your own version, then – I think we have exhausted enough effort. Why not go back to your own Church and share the faith with those who are of like mind? No, people come here in their pride, not asking questions, mind you, but striving to teach us a thing or two and tear down our beliefs. How brazen!

A very pertinent link for you to visit, Point #5.

I’m not sure what you mean by this; I rather like your beliefs.

 

[dronald]

Which, of course, is impossible to do, if you’re fasting in the context of a fast mandated to all believers… which is the experience of Jesus and his audience in this passage. It would have been patently impossible for a Jew to fast “in secret” on Purim.

Now… is Jesus suggesting that, when you fast, you do it in a way that doesn’t draw attention to yourself? Absolutely. That’s a pretty obvious implication of his words. Unfortunately, that explanation renders your literal take on the words void of content – if the meaning is ‘not obvious’, then it is not necessarily ‘unknown’.

Reading the words out of context is fruitless; reading them as if they were written in the 21st century is worse. (Not that I’m saying that this is what you’re doing, of course.) However, reading them in the context of the culture, time, and place of the speaker and the audience however… aah–in that case, you have a chance to understand the meaning of “the words”!

Your analysis of the words only works on the literal surface of the words themselves. I appreciate that my analysis of the context in which they were spoken leaves you unconvinced; yet, it’s perfectly logical. If you wish to read the Scriptures as if their narrative happened in a vacuum, that’s your business; yet, it leaves you unable to offer a convincing exegesis.

The issue here is that I believe that you’re looking at Christ’s teaching as if it wasn’t meant to bring their beliefs to a higher level and remain for generations to come.

You see, when I read Christ’s words I believe He had millenniums in mind, not just the Jews of His time. Jesus certainly drew from common practice but pointed them to a greater, higher level that we shall all follow when He goes.

I also feel as if you’re only looking at the first part of what Jesus said, and not the entire thing. Yes, Christ said, “don’t make yourself look gloomy” but He also said “let it be in secret between you and God for your reward.” Can we really ignore such a command?

 

[marywarfield]

No. I don’t know where you got this from, I take no issue with your practice but it’s not necessary.

You said fasting had to be done in secret or gigs up
no reward in Heaven. Now you say that if a hundred
Catholics know of it that’s fine? Very confusing.

 

[dronald]

You said fasting had to be done in secret or gigs up
no reward in Heaven. Now you say that if a hundred
Catholics know of it that’s fine? Very confusing.

Quote where I said that so I can clarify please.

 

[marywarfield]

Quote where I said that so I can clarify please.

Posts 48, 52 and 54.

 

[JustStarting]

Fasting has to be in secret? Not according to some of the best Protestant Scholars.

Adapted from an article in Bibliotheca Sacra, a scholarly magazine produced and published by Dallas Theological Seminary– one of the most conservative Protestant Seminaries in existence.

I can’t figure out how to put the Greek words here, so they’re missing. Additionally, I took one paragraph out that was not applicable to the point-- that’s why I say “adapted”. But you can read the full article here and discover why you’re wrong. Shall I trot out another few references?
I put some of the article in Bold as those parts seemed to specifically disagree with your posts.

The point is not keeping your fasting a secret. The point is that you shouldn’t take pains to advertise it in order to exalt yourself. Please read the last two sentences of this passage carefully.

Having given instruction on prayer, Christ turned to the subject of fasting. Implicit in the words “And whenever you fast” is the assumption that fasting would be a part of the religious life of the disciples, but Jesus never commanded the disciples to fast. He simply assumed that they would do so. Since the time of Moses the Israelites had been required to fast annually on the Day of Atonement (Lev. 16:29; 23:29). The Old Testament also speaks favorably of other special fast days in which the entire nation humbled themselves before God (1 Sam. 7:5-6; Jer. 14:12). In fact at least once God even commanded emergency fasting (Joel 2:12).

By New Testament times, fasting had been encumbered by additional regulations. Some Jews fasted two days each week throughout the entire year (Luke 18:12). Such weekly fasts were observed on Thursdays and Mondays, because according to tradition, Moses ascended Mount Sinai on Thursday and descended on Monday.(18)

Jesus said the hypocrites neglected their appearance” (Matt. 6:16). The idea of the original language is is “to conceal or mask” the true visage, by a form of outward humiliation.(19) To appear humble and sorrowful these hypocrites poured ashes on their heads, allowed their hair to become disheveled, and did not wash. So fasting, like prayer and almsgiving, was reduced to a hypocritical system. Some practiced this type of fasting as a means of seeking to gain the reputation of being godly. "In order to be seen”, they disfigured their external appearance so as to appear to be fasting. This was deliberately planned hypocrisy.

The article then goes on to explain that by anointing your head and washing your face has nothing to do with keeping your fasting secret. In fact, EVERYONE knew you were fasting because it was a time of fasting. So Jesus wasn’t saying to conceal the fact that they were fasting-- they couldn’t because fasting was required.

Jesus then told His followers how to engage in fasting that would meet God’s approval. They were to anoint their heads and wash their faces. In Jewish thinking anointing one’s head and washing one’s face was not done for daily hygiene or cosmetic reasons. Rather they were reserved for joyous occasions.

I understand that you may not like to actually do any research, but you should pay attention to the following Jewish Proverb:

“When your only tool is a hammer, you see every problem as a nail.”

 

[dronald]

Posts 48, 52 and 54.

Yes, two of those were me either quoting the Bible or explaining something…

It’s one thing to disagree with a point I made and it’s another thing to pretend I’m making a certain point and then defend against that.

I’m wondering where the, “No Heaven for you” came from. Feel free to quote and I’ll clarify.

 

[dronald]

Fasting has to be in secret? Not according to some of the best Protestant Scholars.

Adapted from an article in Bibliotheca Sacra, a scholarly magazine produced and published by Dallas Theological Seminary– one of the most conservative Protestant Seminaries in existence.

I can’t figure out how to put the Greek words here, so they’re missing. Additionally, I took one paragraph out that was not applicable to the point-- that’s why I say “adapted”. But you can read the full article here and discover why you’re wrong. Shall I trot out another few references?
I put some of the article in Bold as those parts seemed to specifically disagree with your posts.

The point is not keeping your fasting a secret. The point is that you shouldn’t take pains to advertise it in order to exalt yourself. Please read the last two sentences of this passage carefully.

The article then goes on to explain that by anointing your head and washing your face has nothing to do with keeping your fasting secret. In fact, EVERYONE knew you were fasting because it was a time of fasting. So Jesus wasn’t saying to conceal the fact that they were fasting-- they couldn’t because fasting was required.

I understand that you may not like to actually do any research, but you should pay attention to the following Jewish Proverb:

“When your only tool is a hammer, you see every problem as a nail.”

We should also simply assume that each other are fasting based on the fact that we are Christians, however when we do so is between us and God, no?

Again, I’ll disclaim; what Catholics do is fine also. If I’ve learned anything from Romans 14 it’s not to judge by what we eat or don’t eat, I’m simply defending our practice as equally reasonable.

 

[Gorgias]

The issue here is that I believe that you’re looking at Christ’s teaching as if it wasn’t meant to bring their beliefs to a higher level and remain for generations to come.

No; I agree with you – Christ certainly had us in mind, too!

I also feel as if you’re only looking at the first part of what Jesus said, and not the entire thing. Yes, Christ said, “don’t make yourself look gloomy” but He also said “let it be in secret between you and God.”

Actually, He didn’t.

Take a look at it again: He tells us simply that we shouldn’t make it obvious: “when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, so that you may not appear to be fasting.” That’s the only command in this part of the passage – anoint and wash yourself. Period. Not “hide”; not “be in secret”; just “don’t put on a gloomy appearance.” Now, it’s precisely because God is concealed that He sees beyond the appearance of things. But, there’s no command from Christ here to hide our fasting – rather, we’re just supposed to make sure that we’re not exaggerating it for the benefit of others’ reactions.

Can we really ignore such a command?

No. But, neither can we impose a command He hasn’t made, in its place.