Where in the catechism does it define specific mortal sins?

[o_mlly]

The Catechism does not specify any acts as mortal sins because every mortal sin has subjective components: knowledge, freedom and intent. As regards the objective component, the Catechism instructs us that the matter must be grave and gives us ample examples. However, if the matter is not grave, there can be no mortal sin even if the sinner thinks the matter grave. (Reality is independent of the way we think about it.)

The Catechism does specify intrinsic evils. Every sin is objectively evil but every objective evil is not necessarily a sin.

Put poetically, “There is no sin, only sinners; there is no sanctity, only saints.”

 

[larry85704]

There are too many places in Scripture and in the Catechism that state that Jesus will judge us for the Church, or anybody, to say that if someone commits a sin and dies without doing something they will go to hell. If you persist in believing that God is required to send you to hell because of any reason you are wrong. Or, would you rather believe that somebody really does tell God what to do?

Simply put, you can die with a large number of mortal sins that you have not been forgiven for and go to Heaven. It depends on what God wants to do with you. I am not recommending sinning, I am just stating the teachings of the Church.

How can you be smart enough to access this web site and type, and spell, and not know this?

 

[JRKH]

There are too many places in Scripture and in the Catechism that state that Jesus will judge us for the Church, or anybody, to say that if someone commits a sin and dies without doing something they will go to hell. If you persist in believing that God is required to send you to hell because of any reason you are wrong. Or, would you rather believe that somebody really does tell God what to do?

Simply put, you can die with a large number of mortal sins that you have not been forgiven for and go to Heaven. It depends on what God wants to do with you. I am not recommending sinning, I am just stating the teachings of the Church.

How can you be smart enough to access this web site and type, and spell, and not know this?

I would be inerested in your sources of “Church Teaching” that says you can die with unrepentant Mortal sins and not Go to Hell.

As has been discussed here there are a number of factors that are necessary for a sin to be Mortal. Grave Matter, Full Knowledge and Consent or Will, and Unrepentance.
This is why I mentioned earlier that, in order for these to be present the first Mortal sin Must, of necessity, be a rejection of God and His Salvation. If one does this and dies in this rejection, the logical conclusion is that thus a one is condemned to Hell by their own obstinate rejection of God and His Salvation.

Please remember that we are not talking about any individual here but of the conditions necessary for a sin to be mortal and the logical and theological outcome of these condistions. It is not a question of someone else telling God, it is more a matter of the individual making a free choice and God honoring that choice.

Peace
James

 

[fisherman_carl]

I would be inerested in your sources of “Church Teaching” that says you can die with unrepentant Mortal sins and not Go to Hell.

As has been discussed here there are a number of factors that are necessary for a sin to be Mortal. Grave Matter, Full Knowledge and Consent or Will, and Unrepentance.
This is why I mentioned earlier that, in order for these to be present the first Mortal sin Must, of necessity, be a rejection of God and His Salvation. If one does this and dies in this rejection, the logical conclusion is that thus a one is condemned to Hell by their own obstinate rejection of God and His Salvation.

Please remember that we are not talking about any individual here but of the conditions necessary for a sin to be mortal and the logical and theological outcome of these condistions. It is not a question of someone else telling God, it is more a matter of the individual making a free choice and God honoring that choice.

Peace
James

And your answer really shows what your definition of mortal sin is, that is a rejection of God and his salvation. But do people actually consciously reject God and his salvation when they say practice contraception? Do they consciously reject God and his plan for their salvation when they miss mass on Sunday? This is why this concept is very subjective to me. I am not rejecting the teaching as Ron hinted at I am trying to understand what that teaching means in the light of scripture and truth. If something is so important that it would send one to hell even after they have accepted God’s grace then it must be understood. I’m trying to understand the bigger picture. You see I believe in God’s grace and his love. I believe that God doesn’t want anyone to go to hell and that he has a plan for our salvation. Does he drop his plan of salvation for us when we sin? How does mortal sin fit in with God’s plan for our salvation? It would make sense to me James if your definition is correct since if we reject forgiveness then how can we be forgiven. Then the focus is not so much on the actual sin itself but on a refusal to repent and be forgiven. But I am not so sure that is what some are claiming is the definition of mortal sin.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you.” - Jeremiah 1:5

 

[fix]

How are you not rejecting God when you commit a mortal sin? The action itself is saying no to God. You are choosing an evil action. How can you say you love God while acting the exact opposite way?

 

[JRKH]

And your answer really shows what your definition of mortal sin is, that is a rejection of God and his salvation. But do people actually consciously reject God and his salvation when they say practice contraception? Do they consciously reject God and his plan for their salvation when they miss mass on Sunday? This is why this concept is very subjective to me.

You ask if people (and I presume you mean catholics) are consciously rejecting God when they commit these acts. Let me turn the question around just a little bit and ask whether these people are consciously accepting God in their lives?
God must not play “second fiddle” to anything in our lives and in our hearts.

I am not rejecting the teaching as Ron hinted at I am trying to understand what that teaching means in the light of scripture and truth. If something is so important that it would send one to hell even after they have accepted God’s grace then it must be understood.

You seem to be a very thoughtful person and you are right, these are important things to understand. The real issue though is to get to understand the underlying core of why something is a Mortal sin, what common denominator is there that creates this deadly seperation between us and God.

I’m trying to understand the bigger picture. You see I believe in God’s grace and his love. I believe that God doesn’t want anyone to go to hell and that he has a plan for our salvation. Does he drop his plan of salvation for us when we sin? How does mortal sin fit in with God’s plan for our salvation?

God’s plan for our salvation is a co-operative one. Our free will is important in it. Therefore God has laid before us clear choices Love and Live - Or hate and die. It is then up to us to make the choice. Thus it is not God who drops His plan for salvation but we who reject it.
Mortal sin is clearly defined by Christ when He refers to blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. It is the one sin that cannot be forgiven. But does this refer strictly to “cussing out God”? Not at all. It refers to an obstinate refusal to accept God’s Will in our lives. An embracing, on our part, of the evils of this world in defiance of God’s Love for us. If we truly Loved God as we should, then we simply could not blaspheme against Him either by word or action. We could not act in any way that is offensive to God - that is - contrary to the “Law of Love”.

It would make sense to me James if your definition is correct since if we reject forgiveness then how can we be forgiven. Then the focus is not so much on the actual sin itself but on a refusal to repent and be forgiven. But I am not so sure that is what some are claiming is the definition of mortal sin.

Well I must say that I have not cerefully read through all of the posts here and I realize that everyone has slightly different takes on things and also that different people are at different points in their spiritual journey. That may account for some of the variances in definitions.
For myself, I try to look for the “Root Cause”, possibly the result of my many years in Quality Control. In considering the issue of Mortal sin, as it is presented in the Catachism and discussed here, it becomes obvious to me that the “Root Cause” of any mortal sin is the rejection of God, or conversely, the lack of true acceptance of God, God’s Grace, and God’s salvation.
God has built His new covenent with us on the foundations of the first covenent with Adam and Eve. That foundation is Love. Christ teaches this when He defines the two greatest commandments - Love of God and Love of neighbor.

Concentrate on this - Love God with all of your self - Your mind, Your heart, Your being. Then Love your neighbor as you Love yourself - For the Love of God.
Do this and you can’t go far wrong.
Do this and you will never miss a Sunday mass for your most ardent desire will not be to sleep in, but will be to worship God in His house and receive Him into yourself.
Do this and you will not practice contraception for your most ardent desire will not be to prevent conception or kill the fertized egg, but hold yourself pure and properly ordered in your desires.

The Bottom Line is that if we Love God as we should then we will not wish to offend Him in any way either large or small. A willingness of Offend God means that we do not Love Him as we should. If we concentrate on this, then we can easily avoid mortal sin.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

As an added help to understanding these underlying causes learning to focus on the real issues and goals, I would like to recommend a book. I is called, “The Fulfillment of All Desire”, by Ralph Martin. The book is subtitled, A Guide for the journey to God Based on The Wisdom of The Saints.
While the Book is large, it is an easy and interesting read. It utilizes the writings of 7 Doctors of the Church and really cuts through a lot of the “distractions” to get to the core of how to grow closer to God in Love. It has been a tremendous help to me on my journey.

Peace
James