Where is Catholicism in the Bible?

[Nicene]

1. I’ve realised now that Catholics think that the saints are already in heaven. If so, then why does this scripture say this?

"13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:13
QUOTE]

 

[Norseman82]

Here is how I understand the Bible. It starts with. In the Begining and it ends with the Jesus and the apostles.

Allan,

That’s not what I asked.

At the end of your original post you stated:

I challenge Catholics to think about why they believe what they believe and try to back it up with the King James Version of the Bible. Everything else is just false doctrine or heresy.

Where in the Bible does it say that everything needs to be in the Bible? By your own standards, if that notion is not in the Bible, it is false doctrine and heresy, correct? So, logically, your assertion must be in the Bible somewhere, correct? So, now I challenge you: please show us where it is in the Bible.

(Although your challenge did us a great service; this thread is a mini-tract on why the Catholic Church is biblically correct).

 

[mercygate]

I am saying he’s not the Father.

You have a real problem with the hypostatic union, haven’t you?

 

[stinkcat_14]

I don’t see it anywhere. And if it’s not in the bible, its false doctrine. In the Bible, there is no mention of Pope, Bishop, or Mass, or most of things that Catholics talk about. Who was greater? Jesus or Peter. Who’s greater Jesus or the Pope? Who’s greater Jesus or Mary? Even Paul said for people to stop following Peter, Paul, or John, but to follow Jesus. Jesus didn’t say anything about Peter being the foundation of the Catholic Church, but the rock of God’s Church. I challenge Catholics to think about why they believe what they believe and try to back it up with the King James Version of the Bible. Everything else is just false doctrine or heresy.

Simple question for you Allan1972: Are you here to learn about what the Catholic Church teaches or are you here to push an agenda?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

. Do you know how the first Christan’s practiced their faith since they did not have a bible to go by until the third century? Because according to you if it is not in the bible than it is a false belief.

The apostles had the Truth and OT scripture.
100ad
Polycarp and ignatius both quote from the Gospels and the epistles.
Pauls letters where collected in the first century and Matt Mark and Luke were brought together by around 150ad.

 

[Gamera]

… I think what it means is you can’t let go of this stuff about Mary being the mother of God, which she isn’t…

“And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” Luke 1:43.

 

[water]

I think what it means is you can’t let go of this stuff about Mary being the mother of God, which she isn’t. She was the mother of Jesus.

…so you meant Jesus is not God then

 

[Church_Militant]

The apostles had the Truth and OT scripture.
100ad
Polycarp and ignatius both quote from the Gospels and the epistles.
Pauls letters where collected in the first century and Matt Mark and Luke were brought together by around 150ad.

Oh so you consider Ignatius authority?

What then about these 2 chapters of one of his letters.

CHAP. VII.–LET US STAND ALOOF FROM SUCH HERETICS.

They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer,(7) because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death(11) in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect,(13) that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that ye should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of(15) them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion[of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved.(16) But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils. They are ashamed of the cross; they mock at the passion; they make a jest of the resurrection. They are the offspring of that spirit who is the author of all evil, who led Adam,(8) by means of his wife, to transgress the commandment, who slew Abel by the hands of Cain, who fought against Job, who was the accuser of Joshua(9) the son of Josedech, who sought to ''sift the faith"(10)of the apostles, who stirred up the multitude of the Jews against the Lord, who also now "worketh in the children of disobedience;(12)from whom the Lord Jesus Christ will deliver us, who prayed that the faith of the apostles might not fail,(14) not because He was not able of Himself to preserve it, but because He rejoiced in the pre-eminence of the Father. It is fitting, therefore, that ye should keep aloof from such persons, and neither in private nor in public to talk with(15) them; but to give heed to the law, and the prophets, and to those who have preached to you the word of salvation. But flee from all abominable heresies, and those that cause schisms, as the beginning of evils.

CHAP. VIII.–LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP.

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out[through their office] the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper(18) Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.(2) even as where Christ is, there does all the heavenly host stand by, waiting upon Him as the Chief Captain of the Lord’s might, and the Governor of every intelligent nature. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize, or to offer, or to present sacrifice, or to celebrate a love-feast.(1) But that which seems good to him, is also well-pleasing to God, that everything ye do may be secure and valid.

Why do you not follow what he taught?

 

[Allan1972]

Simple question for you Allan1972: Are you here to learn about what the Catholic Church teaches or are you here to push an agenda?

I’m interested in the truth.

 

[Karin]

I’m interested in the truth.

whoose truth…Catholic CHurchs (GODS) or yours?

 

[Allan1972]

Allan,

That’s not what I asked.

At the end of your original post you stated:

Where in the Bible does it say that everything needs to be in the Bible? By your own standards, if that notion is not in the Bible, it is false doctrine and heresy, correct? So, logically, your assertion must be in the Bible somewhere, correct? So, now I challenge you: please show us where it is in the Bible.

(Although your challenge did us a great service; this thread is a mini-tract on why the Catholic Church is biblically correct).

In John chapter 1 it says that God is the word and the wrod was made flesh which is Jesus.
My belief is Jesus came to save the world, and if you read the Gospels, you can be saved just by reading what Jesus said or did. Jesus set the perfect example. But he also quoted from the old testament. so its important to read the old testament to. I also believe in the books written by the apostles, because they were with Jesus. They know Jesus better than anybody. Jesus and the apostles, as far as scripture goes is all I need.

That’s why I don’t even read books written by any other Christians.

 

[Gamera]

In John chapter 1 it says that God is the word and the wrod was made flesh which is Jesus.
My belief is Jesus came to save the world, and if you read the Gospels, you can be saved just by reading what Jesus said or did. Jesus set the perfect example. But he also quoted from the old testament. so its important to read the old testament to. I also believe in the books written by the apostles, because they were with Jesus. They know Jesus better than anybody. Jesus and the apostles, as far as scripture goes is all I need.

That’s why I don’t even read books written by any other Christians.

“All you need …” for what? All you need to get to heaven? All you need to understand the basics of salvation history? All you need to know everything that God has revealed to humanity? It would take many lifetimes to learn everything the Bible communicates — every time you read Scripture, you gain more insight. Private study of Scripture is food for your soul, but it isn’t all that’s available to help us in our relationships with God. God has given us even more! He’s given us teachers and guides to help draw our attention to certain things and to explain things we wouldn’t have figured out on our own.

Personally, I don’t want to settle for merely what I “need” for salvation. On the contrary, I’ll take as many blessings as God chooses to give me. Similarly, I wouldn’t want to settle for just learning “all I needed” about God and His divine revelation. I want to know as much as possible about Him because I love Him!

 

[water]

and if you read the Gospels, you can be saved just by reading what Jesus said or did.

yeah, right!
You don’t just read and get saved my friend.
Going to Heaven ain’t that easy.

 

[Mannyfit75]

yeah, right!
You don’t just read and get saved my friend.
Going to Heaven ain’t that easy.

If the Bible only have Three Words. “You are God.” Would you believe it?

Seriously though. Ministers in the Protestant Churches must go to seminary to learn Scripture. Do you wonder why? They want to learn the Bible. An individual by himself interpret the Bible himself without any guidance.

Protestant ministers and Catholic seminarians go to Seminary to learn the Bible. They are taught by others. The idea that just by opening the Bible doesn’t save you, nor does it understand Scripture on the spot.

It takes at least 4-8 yrs to learn the Bible. A priest in the seminary once told me the most difficult Doctorate Degree is Sacred Scripture.

To be well verse in Scripture, you must know Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and Latin. It is not as easy as one to three. The Bible takes years to fully understand it.

 

[Allan1972]

I found this brief summary of some of the history of the Catholic Church, and keep looking for more of it so people know what the Catholic church was all about in history.

Popes Innocent III (1216) and Boniface VIII (1303) put the final touches to Papal triumph in spiritual and temporal power. Seventy-five popes, one after another, from Pope Innocent Pope Pius VII, approved of torture, murder, and burning at the stake, and the confiscation of property of believers in the horrific centuries of the Inquisition. Many of those slain were true Bible believers.
“The most ghastly abomination of all was the system of torture. The accounts of its cold-blooded operations make one shudder at the capacity of human beings for cruelty. And it was decreed and regulated by the Popes who claim to represent Christ on earth. In 1252 Pope Innocent IV solemnly authorized it. Confirmatory or regulatory decrees about it were issued by Alexander IV, Clement IV, Urban IV and Clement V.”

The Papacy had become “drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.”No other kingdom or power has ever drunken so deeply of this blood as had Papal Rome. Thus as streams are traced to the fountain, so is the Papacy traced to the prophecies of Scripture, which correctly interprets the Papacy. This is “the same horn [that] made war with the saints, and prevailed against them. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”

I remember learning about the Holy Roman Empire in world history class in high school. What do you think the romans were about? They were about power. So the Catholic church started trying to take control of the Empire. Christians don’t want wroldly power or control. They want to save the world. so do you still think the Catholic Church has always been the same?

 

[water]

If the Bible only have Three Words. “You are God.” Would you believe it?

Seriously though. Ministers in the Protestant Churches must go to seminary to learn Scripture. Do you wonder why? They want to learn the Bible. An individual by himself interpret the Bible himself without any guidance.

Protestant ministers and Catholic seminarians go to Seminary to learn the Bible. They are taught by others. The idea that just by opening the Bible doesn’t save you, nor does it understand Scripture on the spot.

It takes at least 4-8 yrs to learn the Bible. A priest in the seminary once told me the most difficult Doctorate Degree is Sacred Scripture.

To be well verse in Scripture, you must know Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and Latin. It is not as easy as one to three. The Bible takes years to fully understand it.

I don’t know where Allen gets the idea that we can just read the Bible and Saved. He must’ve read the Bible too fast and skip all other things.

 

[Nicene]

Originally Posted by Allan1972 View Post
and if you read the Gospels, you can be saved just by reading what Jesus said or did.

Holy Cow (Suddenly I feel like a Hindu ) Can you show me the passage that says that?

As far as I know grace comes from God and salvation through Jesus Christ. Not a book.

You do realize Jesus is a real person don’t you?

Still waiting for you to answer all the questions I posed to you. (/picks up War and Peace )

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

I found this brief summary of some of the history of the Catholic Church, and keep looking for more of it so people know what the Catholic church was all about in history.

I remember learning about the Holy Roman Empire in world history class in high school. What do you think the romans were about? They were about power. So the Catholic church started trying to take control of the Empire. Christians don’t want wroldly power or control. They want to save the world. so do you still think the Catholic Church has always been the same?

Guessing you are a follower of Pope Jack Chick. :tsktsk:

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Mannyfit75]

Allan1972:

I found this brief summary of some of the history of the Catholic Church, and keep looking for more of it so people know what the Catholic church was all about in history.

That doesn’t even cover the 2,000 yrs period of the Catholic Church. There are so many historical errors in your remarks.

I remember learning about the Holy Roman Empire in world history class in high school. What do you think the romans were about? They were about power.

The Holy Roman Empire (Western) is Emperor Charlemagne of France. He was crowned Emperor by the Pope at the time. The Church however have no secular authority to execute people, only the state persecute criminals and heretics. The Church nor the Pope approved murders and torture. That power was given to the regional powers at the time.

So the Catholic church started trying to take control of the Empire. Christians don’t want worldly power or control. They want to save the world. so do you still think the Catholic Church has always been the same?

The Catholic Church was first persecuted in Jerusalem by the Jewish leaders and by the Pagan Roman Emperor Nero. For years the Christians have been hiding. It was not until Emperor Constantine issued the Eddict of Milan that ended Christian persecution. There are some claims that Constantine founded the Catholic Church. That itself is wrong. Constantine issued the eddict in 320 A.D.

St. Ignatius of Antioch called the Jesus Christ’s Church Catholic. “Where there is Jesus Christ, there is the Catholic Church.” -107 A.D.

You have been reading a lot of Anti-Catholic material. You came here to spread lies of the Church and historical lies which is not even true.

I suggest you read Christian history from an unbias source.

I’ll do you a favor. You can go to

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church

Wikipedia is not written by a Catholic. That gives a unbiased account of the Catholic Church.

 

[ProdigalSonOfOz]

if you read the Gospels, you can be saved just by reading what Jesus said or did.

And yet this concept is completely unbiblical.