Where is God?

[VociMike]

I agree, they just say things like “perhaps something of the matter and energy was different in that state until it exploded, can’t prove it just like you can’t ‘prove’ God.”

Then they’l say things like there are so many religions and differences of opinon so how do you know you’re right and all others wrong?

To that I would respond that, if there was even the smallest possibility that God exists, then only an irrational person would not live as if God existed, because the consequences then become infinite. Infinite eternal joy or infinite eternal sorrow. So unless they can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that God doesn’t exist (which they most certainly can not), then they are irrational to live their lives as if God doesn’t exist.

And then I’d sit back and wait for the fireworks.

 

[redhen]

Flat out, is there any evidence for God’s existence in the universe? I mean, evolution is fact, therefore if God exists He caused that. But…does that really make sense, spiritually? Does God cause mutations, control the wind to blow a certain way, cause a tree to fall? Cannot all these things be explained naturally as we study them? Anotherwords we can study why the wind blew here, we can study the mutation, we can study the reasons for the tree falling, so where is there room left for God?

It’s dangerous to put your faith in a “God of the gaps”, where you hold up a human eye or a flower and ask “Explain that!”

Science is pushing back the gaps, and as St. Augustine warns;

“Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances,… and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, lest the unbeliever see only ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn.” (De Genesi ad litteram [The Literal Meaning of Genesis] Book 12)"

Head to your local library and see if they have findingdarwinsgod.com/

if not, see if you can get an inter-library loan.

 

[Maranatha]

Not all persons, there are some who can never can car eless about spirituality, I know few. Though generally, your statement is true, just not exact.

I didn’t say all persons but I do now. It can be suppressed at times but eventually manifests. It is always there and when denied it is a cause of suffering.

 

[By_His_Mercy]

I respect your beliefs, but evolution is extremely well supported, and micro leads to macro given enough time. Please, let’s not turn this into another evolution/creation thread.

But you asked “Flat out, is there any evidence for God’s existence in the universe?” I say yes since I believe macro evolution is obviously untrue. At least, there’s no evidence…there should be. I’m just staying on topic…

God bless you!

 

[VociMike]

But you asked “Flat out, is there any evidence for God’s existence in the universe?” I say yes since I believe macro evolution is obviously untrue.

Whoa. Are you suggesting that macro evolution is incompatible with God’s existence?

 

[redhen]

But you asked “Flat out, is there any evidence for God’s existence in the universe?” I say yes since I believe macro evolution is obviously untrue. At least, there’s no evidence…there should be. I’m just staying on topic…

God bless you!

Hi, do me a favour and spend 4 minutes, 23 seconds watching Ken Miller doing a recap on part of the Dover Area school trial where he gave expert testimony. Thanks. (make sure you watch the very end)


youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Flat out, is there any evidence for God’s existence in the universe? I mean, evolution is fact, therefore if God exists He caused that. But…does that really make sense, spiritually? Does God cause mutations, control the wind to blow a certain way, cause a tree to fall? Cannot all these things be explained naturally as we study them? Anotherwords we can study why the wind blew here, we can study the mutation, we can study the reasons for the tree falling, so where is there room left for God?

And if God is eternal, can you not use the same argument for matter and energy in the beginning? Can you not suggest that the singularity of the universe, before it became the big bang, can you not suggest it just always existed as well? Things pop in and out of existence in quantum mechanics all the time.

My question is, where is God in all of this? And how can you blame one for not believing when the origin to so many things…practically EVERYTHING can be explained naturally?

How is it that God formed Jeremiah in the womb especially when we now know how children develop?

these are serious questions, and got my mind running.

**Where is John Grisham in his books ? Hi****s characters wouldn’t find him, so they might become aGrishamites. Only a pious Grishamite would realise that Grisham, though not himself in his books, exists “beyond” them - outside the events of the stories; not isolated from them, but as sovereignly free of the limitations they impose on those within them. **​

**An orthodox & systematic Grishamite would believe (thanks to the labours of generations of Grishamologians & saintly Grishamites): **

• that Grisham is omnipresent in his novels
• that he is contained by none of them
• and is present in all by his authorial power in all & each simultaneously
• that he is "past searching out"
• that there is a world inaccessible to created nature which is the dwelling place of Grisham alone
• **that there is but one Grisham **
• that he is not limited by any of his works, & cannot be
• that there is a world “below” the world accessible to Grishamites & aGrishamites alike
• that it is filled with mysteries named “print”, “paragraphs”, “grammar”, “plot” & others
• that coming to the end of the court case is not the end; but is instead the beginning of the true life of the Grishamite
• **that it is by grace, not by Grishaman nature, that some have some insight into their author. **
  **And so on. **

**An aGrishamite could object that there is no reason to believe any of this, & that the Grishamite has mistaken his own fantasies for reality. To which part of the answer could be, that observed reality, though real in its way, can be an expression of realities unobserved by aGrishamite - simply because aGrishamite thought is founded on ideas that exclude the possibility of this. **

**An even more graced Grishamite would add that Grisham, though powerful, is not ultimate - he is himself the work of a greater author; or rather, Author; Who is alone adequate to be described as Grisham has been. And this Author is of such inconceivable Excellence that He alone can make Himself known. Which He has done. **

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Flat out, is there any evidence for God’s existence in the universe? I mean, evolution is fact, therefore if God exists He caused that. But…does that really make sense, spiritually? Does God cause mutations, control the wind to blow a certain way, cause a tree to fall? Cannot all these things be explained naturally as we study them? Anotherwords we can study why the wind blew here, we can study the mutation, we can study the reasons for the tree falling, so where is there room left for God?

And if God is eternal, can you not use the same argument for matter and energy in the beginning? Can you not suggest that the singularity of the universe, before it became the big bang, can you not suggest it just always existed as well? Things pop in and out of existence in quantum mechanics all the time.

**No Because God is not a phenomenon in the universe: unlike cheese, fiscal policy, atoms, or Switzerland - for He is the Being “behind” all phenomena. They are finite, every one of them: so none of them, even taken all together, could possibly reflect their Author in His Fullness. Nothing in creation, at all, is “like God” entirely - only in part. He is greater, better, than all parts together as a whole. A man is more than his reflection in the brightest mirror - for he is alive, & it is not. That is a very faint analogy between the Infinite God, & his creatures **​

My question is, where is God in all of this? And how can you blame one for not believing when the origin to so many things…practically EVERYTHING can be explained naturally?

How is it that God formed Jeremiah in the womb especially when we now know how children develop?

these are serious questions, and got my mind running.

**God does not exist in the gaps in our knowledge, “between” the things we know - He is the “Environer” of us, of our knowledge, of the things known, & of the gaps **​

Even if our knowledge of the universe were complet**e, perfect & error-free, God would still be God, & all creatures, us included, would still need Him as much as ever. Christian faith is not an explanatory hypothesis to account for things by postulating something called God - that is closer to how scientific knowledge is gained. Faith in God is not the same sort of experience of truth as science: any more than a cheese is a sort of dog. The universe is designed to give room for both faith & science, each in the way appropriate to its nature. **

God does not exist by courtesy of His creations - they exist by His. The real wonder is that there is “room left for” us. For He “fill heaven and earth” - that is, He is Present to whatever has existence & is not Himself - IOW, is created by Him.

**Science can study embryology - it’s unequipped to consider why God created Jeremiah; Jeremiah’s election by God to the work of a prophet is outside the scope of the sciences. A forensic pathologist might well be competent to discuss medical scenes in a crime novel - but his appreciation of it, would not fit him to write a sequel if he had no ability to tell a story. The Surgeon General is a medic - not a writer of crime novels. **

So things can be studied under different aspects - both (or all) of them legitimate & valuable. So God is not abolished by the created universe - He is revealed yet concealed by it. Trees fall down, not because He blows them down, but because falling down (in circumstances that allow this) is what they do.

 

[Donald45]

…I believe macro evolution is obviously untrue. At least, there’s no evidence…there should be.

There is:

talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB901.html
talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB902.html
talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

Gaudium de veritate,

Don
+T+

 

[Donald45]

…So God is not abolished by the created universe - He is revealed yet concealed by it…

I’m intrigued by your statement that God is “revealed yet concealed” by the created universe. Could you elaborate on this a bit? Thanks.

Gaudium de veritate,

Don
+T+

 

[exaltarboy]

Flat out, is there any evidence for God’s existence in the universe? I mean, evolution is fact, therefore if God exists He caused that. But…does that really make sense, spiritually? Does God cause mutations, control the wind to blow a certain way, cause a tree to fall? Cannot all these things be explained naturally as we study them? Anotherwords we can study why the wind blew here, we can study the mutation, we can study the reasons for the tree falling, so where is there room left for God?

And if God is eternal, can you not use the same argument for matter and energy in the beginning? Can you not suggest that the singularity of the universe, before it became the big bang, can you not suggest it just always existed as well? Things pop in and out of existence in quantum mechanics all the time.

My question is, where is God in all of this? And how can you blame one for not believing when the origin to so many things…practically EVERYTHING can be explained naturally?

How is it that God formed Jeremiah in the womb especially when we now know how children develop?

these are serious questions, and got my mind running.

Things don’t “pop in and out” of quantum mechanics. If you knew anything about partical-wave duality you would not say that. I find it funny that all the God non-belivers have to bone up on quantum mechanics. heheheheheh

 

[Randolph]

I am a person who believes in faith and reason. If we want the know the true, we need both.

Criticisms on the literal biblical creation narratives have been argued and documented, and I don’t want to get into that right now. Many people from the science point of view have passionately argued that evolution is a fact. I would like to know from these people where is the scientific proof that species evolve from one to another. Saying given sufficient time this, or that, would happen is not good enough, and is not scientific either.

 

[crookshanks]

On the issue of “evolution is just a theory”, I’ve heard atheists answer that with “…and so is gravity”.

My friend has some questions about his belief. He has been visiting a lot of atheist sites lately, and the problem is he’s only looking at that side. I suggested that he try and visit theist or Christian forums like this, but he’s not doing it.

In all of the global disasters, pandemics, crimes, etc., people die for no reasons. I’m questioning why? People say, “He has a purpose…” I mean, what purpose? Randomly select people and kill them on a tsunami maybe? Randomly select houses that will burn in wildfires which includes devout Christian families?

“He is testing our faith….” wow. That is a good answer. Another good answer is, “Life is random, deal with it…”

God created us based on his image. Oh yeah? If we see aliens in the future, and they don’t look like us, how’s that? God is playing favorites now?

Will you believe in God if you don’t have a loving family? You don’t have a phone, computer, money, and all of those material things that matter to you most? If you don’t have friends, pets, and your life is completely miserable? If you don’t have food to eat three times a day? If you’re homeless? Honestly will you still believe in him if your life is just like that? I think you will not. You believe in Him, because you believe that somehow He is helping you. And if somebody who’s life is miserable and still believes in Him, don’t you think it’s unfair that he/she is in that situation? I mean he/she must have a stronger faith in you but look at her/his life? He/She is miserable, not like you. But you both believe in Him.

 

[By_His_Mercy]

Whoa. Are you suggesting that macro evolution is incompatible with God’s existence?

I think not believing in macro evolution supports the existence of God. But I’m not saying macro evolution denies the existence of God. I just haven’t seen evidence for it…and hence more support for the existence of God.

God bless you!
-BHM

 

[By_His_Mercy]

Hi, do me a favour and spend 4 minutes, 23 seconds watching Ken Miller doing a recap on part of the Dover Area school trial where he gave expert testimony. Thanks. (make sure you watch the very end)


youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

Hi RedHen,

Yes, I surely will. I just tried firing it up and my wife and kids just came in…things are loud here…I’ll get to it later, OK?

God bless you,
-BHM

 

[VociMike]

No, I’m just saying I don’t believe it’s true. But I think the OP thinks macro-evolution argues against God’s existence. To counter that, I just stated my opinion that macro-evolution is obviously untrue anyway…

OK, gotcha. I think it’s bizarre that people think evolution disproves God. I like to compare it to finding the plans and tools and computer software used to design the space shuttle, as proving that the space shuttle didn’t have a designer.

 

[cargau]

If you are determined to say that God does not exist, no amount of evidence will ever convince you. Some people still doubt that man ever set foot on the moon. I could show you pictures, moon rocks and they will still remain steadfast in their doubt.

Judging by your name, you are seeking the truth, so here is a bit of evidence for you to think about.

You talk about nature. And in nature there are natural laws. These are laws because the universe always obeys these laws.

Newton had three such laws that are universally accepted as fact. The first law states that a body remains at rest unless acted upon by an outside force. The second says that a body remains in motion unless acted upon by an outside force.

What outside force got the first object moving? And what outside force stopped the first moving object?

And what about life. Pasteur said that life can never come from “unlife”. So, where did the first life come from?

God does exist. You are living proof of that. The fact that you asked the question means that you are a critical thinker. God, who is truth, wants you to find the truth. Are you open to that possibility?

 

[RubyT]

I respect your beliefs, but evolution is extremely well supported, and micro leads to macro given enough time. Please, let’s not turn this into another evolution/creation thread.

Evolution is well supported by those with the agenda. In fact the theory of evolution is full of holes and speculation. I have a degree in Biology and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize most of the theory is supposions and assumptions.

 

[jean8]

Things don’t “pop in and out” of quantum mechanics. If you knew anything about partical-wave duality you would not say that. I find it funny that all the God non-belivers have to bone up on quantum mechanics. heheheheheh

exaltarboy,
Col.1:15-16 reads, “He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.16. for by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth.”
See also Jn.1:3.
Do you read the Bible?

God bless you,
jean8

 

[By_His_Mercy]

Hi, do me a favour and spend 4 minutes, 23 seconds watching Ken Miller doing a recap on part of the Dover Area school trial where he gave expert testimony. Thanks. (make sure you watch the very end)


youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

Hi RedHen,

I just watched it. I really can’t validate anything this guy is saying…I’m not a geneticist. How do we know we know all of the “code patterns”? We’ve just mapped these genomes in the relatively few past years. 100 years from now, I bet a whole lot will get elaborated upon, revised, etc. This guy is saying we can be sure two chromosomes fused. So then, what happened? We had a male and a female, both having fused chromosomes at exactly the same place, at the same time, and somehow found each other among the other millions, and mated? And then we had one baby with 23 sets of chromosomes among the other baby gorillas with 24 sets? And that baby gorilla was human? So then we’ve got one human male or female. Now, when it grows up, it has to mate with one of it’s parents, right? Nobody else has 23 sets of chromosomes.

This is just too wierd.

But thanks for the link!
-BHM