Where is Jesus now?

  • Thread starter Thread starter kaneata
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
jochoa said:
Excellent question, my friend! Here is a concept I like to ponder:

From this interpretation of the first day of Creation aligned with an understanding of NASA, the afterglow light pattern is an image of Jesus Christ’s Heavenly Kingdom.

What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
That’s beyond what I want to ponder now! :eek:
 
Gaber said:
Why do you say that?
Click to expand...
Because Jesus is (and was) both God and Man; by being God, He is outside of our time and space and, by being Man, He is in our ‘space and time’. Being both, He is in Heavan. :bowdown:
 
kaneata said:
I’ve been wondering, just where is He since He has a body that could be touched and he asked the apostles for something to eat. I know it’s glorified but still???

Seems like such a simple question.
Click to expand...
Read the accounts of His appearance to the Apostles slowly and carefully.

Even though the doors and windows were closed, Jesus came in and stood among them. They were overjoyed at seeing Him but were apprehensive at seeing Him also.

Which is why He asked for something to eat. So, Jesus is showing us the prototype of what we will become. A body that can go through walls but can also manifest physical interactions.

Again, Jesus appears on the shore and they don’t recognize HIm but he says, " cast your nets on the other side of the boat…(I paraphrase of course)" This is the miraculous catch. Peter jumps in the water and meets Jesus on the shore.

Jesus already had a fire going and asked for some of the fish.

Also, the road to Emaus. The same thing- He appears to them, seemingly walking in the same direction and as they begin to understand His words about the scriptures and their eyes are openned to the fact that this is the Master…He disappears.

This is the same Jesus that - while talking to them, ascends into heaven before their eyes.

The glorified body of Jesus will someday be our glorified body. He is in heaven and in your heart and in the Eucharist and everywhere else.
 
tabycat said:
Because Jesus is (and was) both God and Man; by being God, He is outside of our time and space and, by being Man, He is in our ‘space and time’. Being both, He is in Heavan. :bowdown:
Click to expand...
And you are not???
 
Gaber said:
And you are not???
Click to expand...
I’m not in heavan yet. Jesus, being God, is out side of our physacal realm (outside of our ‘time and space’) and being fully Man, has a Body that is in Heavan, because there are several people (ie Mary) are bodiely in Heavan, Heavan has to be both in our ‘space and time’. I’m not crazy about calling something a ‘mystery’, that is just what this is. :):heaven:
 
kaneata said:
I appreciate all the responses and the closest answer to the question I’m seeking is that it is a mystery. I know God is everywhere and the Eucharist is Jesus, that Jesus is sitting at the Father’s right hand------but-----hasn’t anyone ever wondered where His body ascended to when it ascended; and when you say heaven, then where’s heaven. If His body had substance, then it needs to be somewhere. I know God can do anything and this must go along with how angels came down to earth and were seen and spoke. I’m just curious.
Click to expand...
Kaneata
Your intuition is correct and many of the answers above do not seem to avert to the reality that humans, as human, subsist in matter. Angels do not. The Father does not.

Therefore “heaven” for an angel cannot be the same as “heaven” for a human reunited with their material bodiliness. Jesus and Mary are reunited with glorified bodies.

If “body” means anything it must have something in common with materiality. Therefore heaven for humans must involve materiality.

But the real question then becomes does glorified materiality have the same properties as earthly materiality? Yes and no - as others have pointed out. Jesus could pass through walls yet also digest real fish.

Church philosophy (unlike Descartes and Classic (Newtonian) Physics) holds that the lowest levels of “matter” do not possess the property of extension (I am not sure about “mass” as that was “discovered” by Newton so ancient philosophers did not really talk about mass). Such matter can still exhibit “bodilness” (i.e. relative structure).

While classic physics has completely rejected scholastic/Aristotelian physics it did resurrect the concept of what we might call “simple matter” which is so basic that it is without extension: it is the aether. It was needed to explain how light (considered as particles by Newton) can produce wave effects.

The aether has never been convincingly disproved or proved. With quantum physics and the theory of relativity it simply became irrelevent (relativity was a simpler explanation).

Anyhow, all I am saying is that “extension” is not fundamental to the definition of materiality in Church philosophy. This may go some way to explaining how Jesus still exists in a material way on earth (or perhaps anywhere) yet in mystery. This “absence” is completely different from the way that God and the angels are “absent” to human senses - they are spiritual substances without any materiality whatsoever.
 
I think another highly interesting question is, can Jesus be separated from his (now glorified) body? Can he be somewhere that his body is not?
 
snarflemike said:
I think another highly interesting question is, can Jesus be separated from his (now glorified) body? Can he be somewhere that his body is not?
Click to expand...
Nope, in the absence of death, human body and human soul are inseparable.

The separation of soul from body is death, bur HE will never undergo that again.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
Nope, in the absence of death, human body and human soul are inseparable.

The separation of soul from body is death, bur HE will never undergo that again.

ICXC NIKA
Click to expand...
I agree with you. Of course we don’t know the “capabilities” of the glorified body, but I agree that where Jesus is, his body is.
 
Blue_Horizon said:
Kaneata
If “body” means anything it must have something in common with materiality. Therefore heaven for humans must involve materiality.

But the real question then becomes does glorified materiality have the same properties as earthly materiality? Yes and no - as others have pointed out. Jesus could pass through walls yet also digest real fish.

Church philosophy (unlike Descartes and Classic (Newtonian) Physics) holds that the lowest levels of “matter” do not possess the property of extension (I am not sure about “mass” as that was “discovered” by Newton so ancient philosophers did not really talk about mass). Such matter can still exhibit “bodilness” (i.e. relative structure).

While classic physics has completely rejected scholastic/Aristotelian physics it did resurrect the concept of what we might call “simple matter” which is so basic that it is without extension: it is the aether. It was needed to explain how light (considered as particles by Newton) can produce wave effects.

The aether has never been convincingly disproved or proved. With quantum physics and the theory of relativity it simply became irrelevent (relativity was a simpler explanation).

Anyhow, all I am saying is that “extension” is not fundamental to the definition of materiality in Church philosophy. This may go some way to explaining how Jesus still exists in a material way on earth (or perhaps anywhere) yet in mystery. This “absence” is completely different from the way that God and the angels are “absent” to human senses - they are spiritual substances without any materiality whatsoever.
Click to expand...
😊 Wow. Now I’m REALLY lost. Can you please give us a simple version of what you’re saying? And, are you saying that classic physics, Descartes and Newtonian physics contradict Church philosophy? :o
 
While “extension” (I take that to mean properties of dimension, length, movement, etc) is not essential to materiality, it is essential to human bodyhood. Having limbs, nose, feet, etc, that stick out every which way and wiggle every which way is crucial to the special case of materiality that we call the “human body”, designed as it is for moving the mind around. An ether cloud or a mathematical point cannot be a human body.

More important, our LORD’s natural body became, or became part of, His resurrectional body (the tomb was empty). He kept His extensionality.

ICXC NIKA
 
Faith1960 said:
😊 Wow. Now I’m REALLY lost. Can you please give us a simple version of what you’re saying? And, are you saying that classic physics, Descartes and Newtonian physics contradict Church philosophy? :o
Click to expand...
Anyone? Help?
 
Faith1960 said:
Anyone? Help?
Click to expand...
Maybe I can.

They said that “Church philosophy” holds that there can be matter without “extension”, and that this may account for our LORD being physically present (in the Eucharist?) without the appearance of His visible body.

That may work sacramentally. But if I understand “extension” correctly, as being dimensional extent, there cannot be a human body without extension.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
Maybe I can.

They said that “Church philosophy” holds that there can be matter without “extension”, and that this may account for our LORD being physically present (in the Eucharist?) without the appearance of His visible body.

That may work sacramentally. But if I understand “extension” correctly, as being dimensional extent, there cannot be a human body without extension.

ICXC NIKA
Click to expand...
I apologize, but I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. I just want to know if the poster was saying that classic physics, Descartes and Newtonian physics contradict Church philosophy?
 
Faith1960 said:
I apologize, but I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. I just want to know if the poster was saying that classic physics, Descartes and Newtonian physics contradict Church philosophy?
Click to expand...
He does seem to say that they in fact conflict.

I don’t know what he means by Church philosophy. Perhaps Aquinas?

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
He does seem to say that they in fact conflict.

I don’t know what he means by Church philosophy. Perhaps Aquinas?

ICXC NIKA
Click to expand...
And if they do conflict, which is correct? Science or the Church?
 
Faith1960 said:
And if they do conflict, which is correct? Science or the Church?
Click to expand...
“Church philosophy” is not Church doctrine.

The nature of the material in our pneumatikon soma is not a subject of faith or morals.

I’d trust science over “Church philosophy” any day, though not over Church doctrine.

ICXC NIKA
 
Faith1960 said:
😊 Wow. Now I’m REALLY lost. Can you please give us a simple version of what you’re saying? And, are you saying that classic physics, Descartes and Newtonian physics contradict Church philosophy? :o
Click to expand...
This is the simple version - condensed from 7 years tertiary studies in Catholic Philosophy/Theology.

Do your homework on the key words mentioned above in wiki - I am sure you will find much info on what I have sumnmarised.

Whether you will understand it without having done a comprehensive and systematic course in Aristotle and Aquinas is another matter:eek:.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top