Where is the Bible?

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Alizarin said:
God is Our Father, but we can’t personally interpret what our father says…

I’m trying to imagine what that would’ve been like growing up. Everytime my Dad said something, I should’ve asked his friends to interpret it for me, I guess. Doesn’t that kinda kill the idea of personal relationship?
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Bad analogy…in the case of your own dad…you could ask him directly if he said something that is not clear to you…so why would you run to your friends to interpret it for him? when he is right in front of you?

If in school, your teacher said or taught that is not clear…would you run to your classmates to clear it up or run to your teacher?

As for God the Father…how do you think God speaks to you? If there is something that is not clear to you…what do you suppose you would do? What did Jesus said to do and where to go to?
 
Alizarin said:
Hebrews 8:10-11
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

**
Jeremiah 31:33**
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people..
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So…let me see if I understand this…WMscott gives or provides a bible passage…and you counter it with a Bible passage…🤷

Is this what Scripture is for? Is scripture refuted with another passage from Scripture? Can you explain how this is so?

Or is it your interpretation that is the issue or in conflict?
 
Alizarin said:
Hebrews 8:10-11
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

**
Jeremiah 31:33**
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people..
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These seem to talk about Natural Law, the moral laws that is written in the hearts of all Men. This doesn’t talk about the authority to privately interpret scripture.
 
Dave_Noonan said:
I’m curious as to what people think of as THE Bible. For example you think of the Bible on your bookcase as THE Bible or only as translation (with all its problems and limitations) of the actual Bible? You’re of course free to hold you own opinion–just wondering what you think.

And if you think of the Bible in the original languages as THE Bible, which manuscript is authoritative for you? Where is it located?
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The Bible…it is alive and found in the common teaching, common worship, common life that has been found in the apostolic churches…and you can see this come alive in the Divine Liturgies of east and west.
 
bzkoss236 said:
These seem to talk about Natural Law, the moral laws that is written in the hearts of all Men. This doesn’t talk about the authority to privately interpret scripture.
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Well, if God’s law is written in our hearts, then shouldn’t we have the capability to read scripture and interpret it on our own? Read what’s there, compare it to what’s in our hearts, our consciences… I don’t see where the need for authority comes in.
 
Alizarin said:
Well, if God’s law is written in our hearts, then shouldn’t we have the capability to read scripture and interpret it on our own? Read what’s there, compare it to what’s in our hearts, our consciences… I don’t see where the need for authority comes in.
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Well…how did it get written into our hearts in the first place?

Well…what has happened to those who chose to interpret Scriptures on their own?

Where does the Bible say to read the Bible to know the truth? To find out what is false and what is not?
 
pablope said:
Well…how did it get written into our hearts in the first place?
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God said he would do it, so I assume he did it.
pablope said:
Well…what has happened to those who chose to interpret Scriptures on their own?
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The fact is, many reside in the Catholic Church, according to public polling.
pablope said:
Where does the Bible say to read the Bible to know the truth? To find out what is false and what is not?
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Where does it say to refer to the Magisterium? 🤷 But I’ll tell ya one thing: When Jesus was in the desert those 40 days and the Devil came at him, what did the Lord do? He refuted Satan with *** verses from scripture***. He didn’t appeal to the authority and tradition of the religious leaders of the day.
 
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Alizarin:
Quote:

Where does it say to refer to the Magisterium? But I’ll tell ya one thing: When Jesus was in the desert those 40 days and the Devil came at him, what did the Lord do? He refuted Satan with verses from scripture. He didn’t appeal to the authority and tradition of the religious leaders of the day.
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oh my goodness…what a stretch! I for one would not even give you a little on this reference.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android
 
concretecamper said:
Referencing the Word of God is not silly.
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I didn’t think so either, until I referenced Christ’s action in the desert and you called it a stretch etc etc. It’s okay, I can take it. My self worth isn’t linked to your opinion of my posts. Except it might be. A little bit…maybe.
 
Alizarin,

Didn’t Christ say to the Jews in His day:

"…The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. [3] All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not. " (Mt. 23: 2-3)

But, as Christ would show us, the God given authority that the Jewish leaders had would be given “to other husbandmen” (Mt. 21:41).

And this authority Christ gave to His Church (read the Catholic Church), founded upon St. Peter, it’s visible leader. (cf. Matthew 16:18-19, Luke 22:32, John 21:15, Matthew 18:17, Acts. 15). Therefore, the chair of Moses has been superseded by the chair of Peter, the latter being a phrase you will find in the writing of the Early Church Fathers.

And this St. Peter warned his readers regarding St. Paul’s Epistles, that in them “…are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:16). Therefore, the correct interpretation of the Scriptures one can always find in the Church Christ established (read the Catholic Church), which St. Paul refers to as “the pillar and ground of the truth.” (1 Timothy 3:15).

Peace,

Nick
 
Alizarin said:
But I’ll tell ya one thing: When Jesus was in the desert those 40 days and the Devil came at him, what did the Lord do? He refuted Satan with *** verses from scripture***. He didn’t appeal to the authority and tradition of the religious leaders of the day.
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That’s because Jesus is God and therefore is THE authority and author of Tradition, so he knows how to interpret Scripture and understands them perfectly. We are not given that luxury.

And I never said that all of God’s laws are written on our hearts. Only the Natural moral law is written on our hearts (hence why even atheists will say that murder and stealing is wrong). Other things are not so apparent, even from scripture. So there has to be a final authority on such matters to make a definitive stance, to keep unity. Christ said he wants us to be unified, but if we are all ignorant and interpret Scripture for ourselves, we are going to come to different conclusions and disagree, and we’re wrong, it is our fault if we didn’t submit to the authority that God left behind (if He indeed left a final system of authority behind, which as a Catholic I believe He did).
 
Alizarin said:
God l to the authority and tradition of the religious leaders of the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablope View Post
Well…how did it get written into our hearts in the first place?

God said he would do it, so I assume he did it.
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My question is “HOW”…so you assume He did it…so how did God accomplish this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablope View Post
Well…what has happened to those who chose to interpret Scriptures on their own?
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The fact is, many reside in the Catholic Church, according to public polling.
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Are you sure about catholics interpreting Scripture on their own? And where is this public polling source?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablope View Post
Where does the Bible say to read the Bible to know the truth? To find out what is false and what is not?
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Where does it say to refer to the Magisterium?
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Ah…seems you are evading. Magisterium means teaching authority.

Are you the teaching authority by yourself? If it is not you…your pastor perhaps?

So let me repeat the question…Where does the Bible say to read the Bible to know the truth? To find out what is false and what is not?

If it there is no Magisterium…then what does the Bible say where to go to find the truth?

Does the Bible say the individual and his individual interpretation is the source of truth?
But I’ll tell ya one thing: When Jesus was in the desert those 40 days and the Devil came at him, what did the Lord do? He refuted Satan with verses from scripture. He didn’t appeal to the authority and tradition of the religious leaders of the day.
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Which Scripture did Jesus use? He did not say use Scripture…He only said it is written…but Jesus also understood what He said perfectly.

Do you understand everything in the Bible as Jesus does…perfectly?

These are what Jesus said:

4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’**”

7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[d]”

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”

So following our logic…shall we just stick to these written words?
He didn’t appeal to the authority and tradition of the religious leaders of the day
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Well…because He is God.

When you read the Bible and interpret its passages…don’t you think you use tradition and authority too…the tradition…your faith tradition of how it interprets the Bible and the authority of your pastor…or whoever you believe someone’s interpretation?

But then…the question is…why is makes your interpretation correct over that of the Catholic Church?

Ecclesial Deism

calledtocommunion.com/2009/07/ecclesial-deism/

‘Tradition’ becomes whatever one agrees with in the history of the Church, such as the Nicene Creed or Chalcedonian Christology…What makes it ‘authoritative’ for Mohler is that it agrees with his interpretation of Scripture. If he encounters something in the tradition that seems extra-biblical or opposed to Scripture he rejects it. For that reason, tradition does not authoritatively guide his interpretation. His interpretation picks out what counts as tradition, and then this tradition informs his interpretation.**
 
Dave_Noonan said:
So as not to derail a different thread on "What is the Bible? I will begin a new one with the question: “Where is the Bible?”

I’m particularly interested in Catholic responses—but others would certainly be interesting as well. Does the Bible exist in time and space? If you think so, please provide specifics as to its location–GoogleMaps would be fine 😉 Or does it exist in the imagination of a particular scholar or pope? And if so, who? Can we access this imagined Bible? Or are there different ideas of the Bible depending on who you ask, but no ONE Bible?
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Is this a joke? What is the point? If you are trying to make a point, please provide the background so that forumers can at least understand where you are coming from and answer relevantly.
 
pablope said:
But then…the question is…why is makes your interpretation correct over that of the Catholic Church?
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What makes the Catholic Church’s more correct than anyone else’s? It always comes down to an appeal to authority, but some don’t trust that particular authority – the reasons would probably best be suited to discussion in another thread. Point is, until that gulf is breached, we’re going to be arguing in circles.

There was a time when I did trust the bishops. I no longer can. If others, though, have the ability to do so, people like yourself, good. I can respect that it works for you, not to mention many of my friends and half my family. 🙂
 
Alizarin said:
Well, if God’s law is written in our hearts, then shouldn’t we have the capability to read scripture and interpret it on our own? Read what’s there, compare it to what’s in our hearts, our consciences.
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Open your phone book.
Count the number of denominationans in your local area.
Compare that to what you posted.
Enough said.
 
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