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Alizarin
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I’m flattered
To what you posted. I quoted you.
. And I’m happy you feel enough was said. Contentment in rare in this life. You gotta treaure it when you find it, that’s what I say.
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. And I’m happy you feel enough was said. Contentment in rare in this life. You gotta treaure it when you find it, that’s what I say.
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pablope
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The discussion is about abortion…not whether Catholics interpret the Bible on their own…so how did you come to this conclusion that catholics interpret the Bible on their own based on a support for abortion?
"Poll: 50 percent of all Catholics support abortion in ‘all or most cases’
July 25, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Half of all Catholics believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases, according to a poll commissioned by The Washington Post and ABC in the wake of the murder convictions of Philadelphia House of Horrors abortionist Kermit Gosnell.
Fifty percent of Catholics said they believed abortion should be legal in all or most circumstances, while 45 percent say it should be illegal in the same circumstances. That was only moderately more pro-life than the American public as a whole, which favored abortion 55-41."…
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pablope
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wmscott
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However Jesus is GodGod said he would do it, so I assume he did it.
The fact is, many reside in the Catholic Church, according to public polling.
Where does it say to refer to the Magisterium?But I’ll tell ya one thing: When Jesus was in the desert those 40 days and the Devil came at him, what did the Lord do? He refuted Satan with *** verses from scripture***. He didn’t appeal to the authority and tradition of the religious leaders of the day.
in reading your posts it seems to me that we all can have a personal interpretation, and as you have already demonstrated they conflict greatly, you want us all to believe that they are all correct.
After all you said it that its in the Bible and God said it so we all are right. There is no need for Authority. The flaw in your answers is that you are saying that God is lying to us, or some of us, because if one interprets Scripture one way and another interprets a totally opposite way how can both be right. one has to be a lie and the other the truth, so God has lied to one and not the other.
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sousley
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wmscott
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So tell me where the bible tells us that it is the sole rule of faith and is the final authority.
AUTHORITATIVE CHURCH Mt 28:18-20 - Jesus delegates all power to Apostles Jn 20:23 - power to forgive sin 1Cor 11:23-24 - power to offer sacrifice (Eucharist) Lk 10:16 - power to speak with Christ’s voice Mt 18:18 - power to legislate Mt 18:17 - power to discipline
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Alizarin
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If they stuck to the interpretation of the Magisterium, which is what they are supposed to do, they wouldn’t think abortion is okay, right?
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Alizarin
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Jesus’ authority. Which, as a non-Catholic Christian, I have a hard time believing is invested in Rome. Now, you can cite chapter and verse to explain why you believe it’s there, and I can then go to a protestant apologetic site which will give me different verses and different interpretations. In the end, I have to decide which one is, in my mind and heart, more trustworthy.
With that said, I, personally, about a year ago, after much experience, thought, reading, and prayer, could no longer in good conscience place my trust in Rome. If you can, though, I respect that, as I said earlier. And I meant it, too. Nothing about me has changed since then.
Except my shoes. I have my slippers on now. Which I sometimes wear outdoors in the yard like they are shoes… Except when it’s raining. Because then they’d get soggy, ya know?
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wmscott
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Because they are human, they are sinners, and they are spiritually weak. they are “Wrong”. this is why Jesus ensured that he established the teaching authority of the Church. this is why He promised that the Holy Spirit would always be with the Church to guide it and protect it. he knew that humans were weak and would always be sinners. what you ask for is a world of perfect, it does not exist, however we do have the Deposit of Faith which has been faithfully guarded by the CC. One, Holy, Catholic, & Apostolic. No division just one truth, Christs truth. But you get all kinds of folks that think the know better than God and know the mind of God better than He or anyone else so they go around making their own personal interpretations and proclaiming as the “Truth” when they are so far off the mark. no wonder why there is so much confusion in the world.
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Alizarin
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Right. And that includes plenty of Catholics interpreting things for themselves. Which I illustrated with the poll. And then someone said “What poll?” and I pointed to that other thread. And then you brought it back to this and honestly, I can’t make heads or tails of what you’re trying to say to me.
Going round and round like Ratt is starting to wear me out. But you seem sincere, I’ll give you that
That counts for a lot, I should think. I mean, it does with me.
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concretecamper
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haha…The catholic teaching is consistent and has been consistent for close to 2000 years. disobedient catholics does not means that the Church allows self interpretation. But I think you know this already and enjoy going around in circles.Right. And that includes plenty of Catholics interpreting things for themselves. Which I illustrated with the poll. And then someone said “What poll?” and I pointed to that other thread. And then you brought it back to this and honestly, I can’t make heads or tails of what you’re trying to say to me.
Going round and round like Ratt is starting to wear me out. But you seem sincere, I’ll give you that
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Alizarin
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The debate had nothing to do with whether or not the RCC allows it. Of course it doesn’t.
But lay Catholics still do a lot of it. And that was the point. Why take Protestants to task for what many Catholics do as well? Especially when our religion allows it, but your does not? See what I mean?
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Reuben_J
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":
I admire the condor (in admitting) but why you (and others who do) think that you know better than God?
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Alizarin
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I don’t think I know better than God. I also don’t think the bishops have quite as direct a line to Him as the Church teaches, though I respect those of the Catholic faith who by being part of the Catholic faith think otherwise. Don’t mistake my goal as being one of proselytization. I’m just bouncing around ideas.
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concretecamper
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You care too funny.
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Reuben_J
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You were answering a question and you agreed. If it means to be sarcasm, you did not indicate it.
You would get a response with an answer like that though it would not lead to anything very concrete maybe. When you include Catholics who also do the same, what do you really mean? Does that negate that therefore the Catholic Church’s Magisterium is wrong or irrelevant than that individual Catholics, like all adherents of many religions, may not always necessary ‘toeing’ the line with their churches?
People come here with reasons of their own. I would not say your are proselytizing which is against the Forum’s rule which can result in one getting banned.
You are entitled to your opinion. But nor does the Church, if by that you mean the Catholic Church, say so as that seems to generalize and half truth.
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wmscott
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what you do not understand is that Catholics are allowed to interpret Scripture for themselves, its just if there is conflict or misunderstanding, it is the teaching authority of the CC that has the has the final word. in this way the CC is “ONE”. Not divided and scattered. The CC relies on the Holy Spirit, as promised by Christ, to guide it in matters of faith and morals.
However in some Protestant denominations, same sex marriage is OK, and in others it is not… in some Protestant denominations there is tolerance for abortion, in some Protestant denominations it is a moral evil… and what causes just such a diversity of “Truths” flawed personal interpretation of scripture with on unity in Christ.
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concretecamper
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@alizarin: You must understand that catholics that are disobedient to the teachings of the church are about as Catholic as you are. So lump them in with you…not me. So you are comparing like groups of people…you and disobedient Catholics are not too different.
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CalCatholic
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Fundamentalist Christians know where the** ‘original Bible’** is; it is in the Vatican Secret Archives, on a podium locked up (with a chain attached to it) so no one can read it! 
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pablope
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Except…the Magisterium does not rely on the Bible alone…it also relies equally on Sacred Tradition…so your analogy and conclusion are way off.
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