M
Matariel
Guest
Jesus and His Catholic Church are inseperable, as His Church is His Bride and His Mystical Body.
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M
Matariel
Guest
I don’t understand what this has to do with the Catholic Church’s historic, apostolic, and divine origin, but…
For one, the civil authorities burned people at the stake, as heresy was considered a civil crime as well as a spiritual one.
Secondly, Catholic priests and monks were forbidden to shed blood; they did not burn people at the stake or otherwise kill them.
Thirdly, we have records of criminals blaspheming purposefully in order to be handed over to the inquisition, because the Inquisitors were generally far fairer than secular courts at that time.
Fourthly, there is no singular “Inquisition”, unless you are talking about the Holy Office itself.
Here is some information that may help you:
catholic.com/library/Inquisition.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0709tbt.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0711tbt.asp
Also, many Protestants seem to overlook or ignore the fact that it was the Papacy that suppressed the Inquisition.
R
rinnie
Guest
What in the world are you taking about. You first blame the RCC which is Jesus Christ, now you are blaming the Pope. Tell me Rev Kev where have I or anyone on this thread ever said that the Pope is the Living Christ, Where has it been stated that the Pope is the CC? Where? Where has anyone ever stated that any Pope in history has replaced themself with Jesus Christ and are sinless and perfect?
First you blame the Aposltes for lying to us, then you blame Jesus for killing inocent people, now you are on the Pope’s. The CC has never been nor will ever be led by the decisions of any Pope or Bishops, All teaching comes from Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.
If you are really a Rev, I can see now why all of the other faiths truly hate us. With the lies you have just spread on this thread, you are impossible.
Now you turn around and blame the CC for mistakes of men. I suppose everything that I do because I am Catholic is The Sin of Jesus Christ too, right. Why not, you blame everything that any person who was Catholic did wrong on Jesus. You don’t accuse the people of the Church responsible, you hold Jesus responsible for every single sin that man did and used his name.
The more that you write the more confused I can see that you are. I thank God more and more everyday for leaving me the Church that is led through the Holy Spirit to guide me. Because if you are a preacher I could be following these lies you spread and believe that you are the true Church. I thank God for that grace that he has given me. And I pray for anyone who is subjected to hearing what you have said here about the RCC the Living Christ, and his APostles who gave up thier life to spread the true word, not lies that you accuse them of.
R
rinnie
Guest
MYRD while I thank you for you kind response I must say one thing, Catholic’s have always and will always read the bible. The difference between Catholic’s and Protestants is this, Catholic are taught that if you are going to read the bible and then interpret it for what you think it is, instead of what it really is, it is better to not read it at all. Because the message that Christ is trying to get across to you is not getting there.I will never forget when I was at a JW kingdom hall and someone asked the crowd of JWS for a show of hands from all who were former Catholics, about 3/4 of the people raised their hands.this made me believe what I had read about Catholics not knowing their Bibles very well. A couple years later I met a Catholic man and his two kids on a train to Seattle, they creamed my daughters and I in Bible trivia, showing me that Some Catholics do infact read the Bible.
Let me explain:
The scripture MY LORD MY LORD WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME.
I have had thousands of protestants say to me, yes God has forsaken Jesus. I am like huh
Now If you read in the bible you will see that was a message for the Jews. Who knew scripture better than the Jews. Actually only the Jews at that time knew what Jesus was saying. It was really Jesus saying look what you did to me. If you read that scripture you can see that a light went off in their heads. That scripture continues to show them he fulfilled scripture. Everything they did to him was written before it happened.
Do you see how easy scripture that is written in black and white and seems so plain, but means nothing on the words that were said? That is what the Church teaches us. Don’t read scripture out of context and then run with it. Understand what it means, not what it says. But yes Catholic’s do know thier scripture, and we do not argue and fight over who is right and who is wrong. Because we have the Advocate the HS to lead us into all truth. So we obey and accept the authority given to the Pope and Bishops to lead us to the truth. Because we want Gods truth not what we think truth is.
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schaick
Guest
Funny it is Catholics that are following the traditions of men- not speaking of the Apostles here but man-made doctrines set up much later - 1300, 1800’s, 1900’s by mere men.
I do have Jesus in my heart. I don’t follow teaching of man but of GOD because I follow GOD’s Word left to us by the Apostles. For me it is the final authority- not a mere man.
The Catholic Church is no longer the single or best representative of the church that Jesus is building.
All the Catholics out there do you believe that the church is completed?
R
rinnie
Guest
Um Yeah, Do you feel that Jesus left something out? He said that all salvation comes through him the CC? What do you feel that Jesus forgot?
By the way we believe that the CC is the living Christ, so its Jesus Christ. So who do you feel has replaced Jesus?
He left us all of the Sacraments? Do you feel again he forgot one or what?
C
Cursilista
Guest
Not mere men, but men whose authority was handed down to them through apostolic succession. Doctrines which have been contemplated from the beginning and have been researched and prayed over in some cases for hundreds of yrs before becoming doctrine. I trust in these mere men , as you put it, over the mere men who decided 1500 yrs later to make up on their own authority the protestant doctrines.
I dont doubt that. Not all that Jesus taught the apostles was written down. The rest of the words of God were given to the apostles to hand down to their succesors. Those words and knowledge were handed down in the form of traditional knowledge within the church. So is what you claim to be doctrines of mere man just that or the additional words of God’s knowledge which he handed down to his church
Sounds like the opinion of a mere man. Support that opinion with scripture. So if not the Catholic Church, which one, pick it, you have 30 thousand different ones to pick from.
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schaick
Guest
Yes this is what I was taught-fufillment of Scripture and Yes Christians have the Holy Spirit as an advocate also.The scripture MY LORD MY LORD WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME.
I have had thousands of protestants say to me, yes God has forsaken Jesus. I am like huh
Now If you read in the bible you will see that was a message for the Jews. Who knew scripture better than the Jews. Actually only the Jews at that time knew what Jesus was saying. It was really Jesus saying look what you did to me. If you read that scripture you can see that a light went off in their heads. That scripture continues to show them he fulfilled scripture. Everything they did to him was written before it happened.
Because we have the Advocate the HS to lead us into all truth.
Sorry I am taking this off topic here but this is so interesting: Did you know that some Aramaic speakers say this is the true translation?
aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/1_Matthew/Mattich27.pdf
*“My God, My God, for this I was kept”. * In other words His whole life led up to His crucifixion on the cross. There were times that He could have been killed but He was spared for the cross.
There is a problem here just as the disciples knew the difference between petra and petros and which was meant for Peter, Cephas they would know what was meant for this statement of Jesus.
BUT why did GOD inspire the Bible authors to spare Jesus’ original words?
Check this out:
The aramaic word for hate has a second meaning -to put aside- seems to make so much more sense!
Luke 14
26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.
R
rinnie
Guest
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Jesus warned us that man would come along and try to sway us from the truth, they will twist scripture. ANd they will try to teaching in their own distorted ways. It is all written. But it tells us stick with the Church. The Church is led by the Holy Spirit and cannot lead us wrong.
Then you get a person like rev kev who says the Apostles lied to us. Whats up with that?
And may I add which can be proved. Jesus made it that way, even told us in scripture to follow the Early Fathers of the Church. Scripture told us do not stray from the truth that the early Fathers have told you either by scripture or WORD OF MOUTH.
Jesus warned us that man would come along and try to sway us from the truth, they will twist scripture. ANd they will try to teaching in their own distorted ways. It is all written. But it tells us stick with the Church. The Church is led by the Holy Spirit and cannot lead us wrong.
Then you get a person like rev kev who says the Apostles lied to us. Whats up with that?
R
rinnie
Guest
Many Many Jews are comming back to Christ. Jewish voice is a site that explains that to us. I love to hear him show us where he does see Christ now.
And you are right just as the Apostles knew that Peter was to be the Rock to lead the Church into the fullness of the Faith, But how many people deny that. They say little rock, etc. What was the Church Peter was to feed. The CC. But how many people can accept this truth. Peter and the Apostles were to spread out and teach the truth. It is through the CC the LIVING CHRIST that it is possible. It is by the Holy Spirit. We all do not have the gift of the HOLY SPRIIT to teach, and define scripture. Jesus showed up a Pentecost and picked CERTAIN PEOPLE. If not why did he not overshadow the world instead of the Church at Pentecost? But he did not choose to do it that way.
S
schaick
Guest
No you misunderstand. Jesus and GOD’s Word re sufficient it is the Catholic Church that is adding to Jesus’ original message.Um Yeah, Do you feel that Jesus left something out? He said that all salvation comes through him the CC? What do you feel that Jesus forgot?
By the way we believe that the CC is the living Christ, so its Jesus Christ. So who do you feel has replaced Jesus?
He left us all of the Sacraments? Do you feel again he forgot one or what?
I am in the body of Christ-
1 Corinthians 12
12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many.
Please show me were Jesus says salvation is only through the Catholic Church.
S
schaick
Guest
It is some of the Popes that have in fact twisted scripture.
YES absolutely stick with Jesus’ universal church which includes more then just the Catholic Church organization.
I did not see this post are you sure that is what he meant?
T
tweetymom
Guest
And?
R
rinnie
Guest
Schaick, I gotta go pick up my Mom at the airport. Go the the CCC 168. It will explain to you, When you are baptised you are asked, What do you ask of God’s Church? The answer is faith. Read 168.169,170, oh heck read the whole book. It will explain to you the CCC. But the profession of Faith will explain it to you. (thats the chapter)
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rinnie
Guest
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THen why does scripture say the CHurch is ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC? Why does it not say the Church is divided into many? It says the opposite that we are united into one Body of Christ. Not many bodys of Christ.
S
schaick
Guest
No the rock is the TRUTH of Peter’s statement.
Yes those certain people with Peter did open Jesus’ church to all in as told in Acts- the Jews, Samaritans and Gentiles.
**Everytime we read the Holy Bible the Apostles are feeding us **
Ephesians 2
19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
You limit Jesus’ Church- all who peach the Gospel are helping building Jesus Church.
All do have the ability to teach-especially every parent!!
T
tweetymom
Guest
I would be very interested in where you found that in scripture?
T
tweetymom
Guest
:clapping:
S
schaick
Guest
Actually I have read the whole Catholic Catachism, maybe 10 years ago.
I do profess in one faith with Catholics until they start professing things that are unbiblical then I need to stop.
But I should say if you need all of what comes to you with a Catholic Church membership to believe in Jesus then who am I to be a stumbling block?
1 Corinthians 8
9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, won’t he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
GOD Bless!
C
Cursilista
Guest
The thread reads, Where is the historical church founded by jesus christ.
Jesus sent his apostles to to the corners of the world to establish his church.
These are some of the churches that the apostles founded. (Sorry the list is not complete, and please correct me if there is some error or if you can, add to this list)
The amazing thing about this is that you had twelve men who went to such different lands and cultures and were each able to establish churches in these lands that had the same sacrements and liturgy (albeit with maybe a few deviations). On the whole, all of these churches were of one faith and belief and one understanding. They still exist to this day. More Apostles went towards the east to establish the church than to the west. We sometimes overlook the east, but to me, they are proof positive that The catholic church is the one true church. These churches were established shortly after the death of jesus from the yrs 33 AD onward. How could 12 different mere men, all get it right, if they were not led by christ through the holy spirit.
All of these churches believe in the presence of our lord in the holy eucharist, believe in apostolic succession, believe in confession, believe in authoritaive teaching, believe in all of the same basic principles that the CC believes in.
A List of the churches followed by the Apostle who founded those churches
Rome: Sts Peter and Paul
Constantinople: St. Andrew
Antioch: St. Peter
Alexandria: St. Mark
Jerusalem: St. James
Moscow: St. Andrew (claimed through Constantinople)
Georgia: St. Andrew
Ethiopia: St. Mark
East Antioch: Saint Thomas
Armenian: Bartholemew and Thaddeus.
West Syriac: St. Peter
India: St. Thomas
Spain: St. James
Ukrainian: St. Andrew
Now for our protesting brothers in christ. Refute that this church is not the historical church founded by Jesus Christ.
Better yet, show that your church is.
Remember the apostles didnt go forth with a bible in their hands and said here just follow this book. They had Gods words written in their hearts. They went forth and established the same maner of worship, teaching, and liturgy in foriegn lands. They did so with the knowledge of what jesus wanted his church to be.
The CC and EO have worked so hard for 2000 yrs to keep those traditions established by the apostles themselves from the changes of man. They did not allow the heretical to alter the church over the centuries. They have stood the test of time.
Jesus sent his apostles to to the corners of the world to establish his church.
These are some of the churches that the apostles founded. (Sorry the list is not complete, and please correct me if there is some error or if you can, add to this list)
The amazing thing about this is that you had twelve men who went to such different lands and cultures and were each able to establish churches in these lands that had the same sacrements and liturgy (albeit with maybe a few deviations). On the whole, all of these churches were of one faith and belief and one understanding. They still exist to this day. More Apostles went towards the east to establish the church than to the west. We sometimes overlook the east, but to me, they are proof positive that The catholic church is the one true church. These churches were established shortly after the death of jesus from the yrs 33 AD onward. How could 12 different mere men, all get it right, if they were not led by christ through the holy spirit.
All of these churches believe in the presence of our lord in the holy eucharist, believe in apostolic succession, believe in confession, believe in authoritaive teaching, believe in all of the same basic principles that the CC believes in.
A List of the churches followed by the Apostle who founded those churches
Rome: Sts Peter and Paul
Constantinople: St. Andrew
Antioch: St. Peter
Alexandria: St. Mark
Jerusalem: St. James
Moscow: St. Andrew (claimed through Constantinople)
Georgia: St. Andrew
Ethiopia: St. Mark
East Antioch: Saint Thomas
Armenian: Bartholemew and Thaddeus.
West Syriac: St. Peter
India: St. Thomas
Spain: St. James
Ukrainian: St. Andrew
Now for our protesting brothers in christ. Refute that this church is not the historical church founded by Jesus Christ.
Better yet, show that your church is.
Remember the apostles didnt go forth with a bible in their hands and said here just follow this book. They had Gods words written in their hearts. They went forth and established the same maner of worship, teaching, and liturgy in foriegn lands. They did so with the knowledge of what jesus wanted his church to be.
The CC and EO have worked so hard for 2000 yrs to keep those traditions established by the apostles themselves from the changes of man. They did not allow the heretical to alter the church over the centuries. They have stood the test of time.
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