where is the historical church founded by Jesus Christ?

[schaick]

By the way another person taking the words of the Pope and twisting them to mean what they want them to mean.

Question how did Jesus get here?
How did we get Salvation?

Did we not get Salvation through Jesus Christ? Did Mary the Mother Of Jesus Christ say yes to God. And was she not the ARK of the NC.

Did the Ark not contain the word, and did the word not become flesh Jesus CHrist through the ARK which was Mary.

So did Salvation not come through the Ark which was the Body OF Mary the Mother of God.

The Pope never said that we bypass Jesus Christ and have Salvation BY Mary. The Pope said by The Grace, and hope of Mary and her faith we gained salvation through her by her SON JESUS CHRIST. SHe brought him into the world. This is just a small example how when people do not understand things, turn it around, twist it, take such a beautiful truth and twist it with thier own hate for the Pope and his Church and our love for the Blessed Mother and try to make it ugly. What is the point of these things???

Where is Jesus?
Your dominion reaches even down into the abyss of Hell, and you alone O Mary, save us from the hands of Satan. Pope Pius XI

Nothing comes to us except through the mediation of Mary, for such is the will of God. O Virgin Most Holy, no one abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; no one O Mother of God, attains salvation except through thee! …Pope Leo XIII

This is not biblical:

Those outside the Church do not possess the Holy Ghost. The Catholic Church alone is the Body of Christ… and if separated from the Body of Christ he is not one of His members, nor is he fed by His Spirit. Pope Paul VI

No one, even if he pours out his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved unless he remains within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church. Pope Eugene IV

We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. Pope Boniface VIII

Into this fold of Jesus Christ no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff, and only if they be united to him can men be saved. Pope John XXIII

Those who are obstinate toward the authority of the Church and the Roman Pontiff… cannot obtain eternal salvation. Pope Pius IX

 

[larkin31]

Don’t you see? Adrift and I have tried to explain to you, marriage was not the same then as it is today. Please read post 1424

I read it and have no objection to it. I don’t see how it has any bearing on a virgin-for-life pledge of hers.

 

[Dokimas]

He wasn’t speaking of splintered factions as is the case with Protestantism - only that they were not a part of their group.

Don’t forget, friend - Jesus ALSO said the following about those who did not remain in him:
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’

Elvis the judge, jury, excommunicator and executioner.​

You are in NO POSITION to tell anyone who is or is not in Christ.​

Take note what Jesus said to and about the Pharisees.

 

[larkin31]

This is PRECISELY what her question implies.
Mary’s question to the Angel Gabriel is very telling about her intention to remain a virgin:
Luke 1:34:*** Then Mary said to the angel, ***“How can this be, since I do not know a man?”
**Mary was a betrothed girl who knew about marital relations. **
She didn’t say “How can this be, since I have not known a man?”
She said “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

She was stating her intention to remain a virgin and was puzzled by Gabriel’s announcement that she was to have a child. She knew that God was aware of her intentions. Her bewilderment and the words “I do not know”, as opposed to I have not known”, is clear evidence that she had no intention of having marital relations.

Nice try.

“I do not know Swahili” does not mean that I pledge never to know it, nor even predict that I will never know it.

“I do not know you”

“I do not know the rules of curling”

“I do not know a man” – it does not even say “men”

 

[lil_flower_luv]

I read it and have no objection to it. I don’t see how it has any bearing on a virgin-for-life pledge of hers.

Alright, well I’m sorry we couldn’t help you understand! Some things are like that.

 

[Dokimas]

Posted by CMatt25
Uh oh. This should be interesting. Elvis or Guan wrong? I wonder which is not Catholic?

Dokimas, you are correct. Even though I had hoped my smiley would let it be known I was joking, I am sorry. I should not have allowed myself to post the above. Thank you for reminding me.

My frown was not to you. It was to the situation you were commenting on.​

I guess it could also describe how I feel about Elvis and his comments in general. He makes me very sad.

 

[larkin31]

What are you talking about? Jesus didn’t ask his most beloved apostle to live with her as a husband! He asked him to go live with her as a son! Also, why would you even suggest that Mary would be having sex and doing some “pillow talk” with anyone?

Now as someone who’s been asked by Jesus to care for his mother, I’m sure they must have had quite a few meals together and many discourses as well. Can we speculate that since Jesus’ most beloved apostle would try to find out as much about Jesus’ childhood (the hidden parts) and about Jesus’ mother (the hidden parts) as he possibly could? I know most normal people would want to learn alot about someone who he knows is God made flesh.

Sorry, my head was in the gutter on that last suggestion. Of course, you are right.

I see now what this dogma is based on: one passage from the OT, one passage about not “knowing a man” in the NT, and speculation about what might have been said outside of both testaments.

 

[rev_kevin]

This is PRECISELY what her question implies.
Mary’s question to the Angel Gabriel is very telling about her intention to remain a virgin:
Luke 1:34:*** Then Mary said to the angel, ***“How can this be, since I do not know a man?”
**Mary was a betrothed girl who knew about marital relations. **Of course she knew about marital relations thats why she said she don’t know man which means I have not had sex with a man or I have not been with a man yet.
She didn’t say “How can this be, since I have not known a man?” No matter what way you say it, it means the same thing, I have not been/slept/relations with a man.
She said “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

She was stating her intention to remain a virgin and was puzzled by Gabriel’s announcement that she was to have a child. She knew that God was aware of her intentions. Her bewilderment and the words “I do not know”, as opposed to I have not known”, is clear evidence that she had no intention of having marital relations.

Then why did she get married in the first place if she was not going to have relations with her husband that God created for a husband and wife? Why didn’t she remain single like the Nuns are?

 

[CMatt25]

(Stop mingling with your Protestant friends!) You are Catholic and therefore must obey your Catholic Faith. There is Confession for a reason. And if you have not repented of a mortal sin, then yes, I’m afraid you would face eternal death.

Hi again Therese, if I joined one of those churches you mentioned in another post which I too am familiar with, would I still be sent to hell for not repenting a mortal sin as defined by the CC? What if I merely attended one of those but did not join?

 

[Loboto-Me]

Sorry, my head was in the gutter on that last suggestion. Of course, you are right.

I see now what this dogma is based on: one passage from the OT, one passage about not “knowing a man” in the NT, and speculation about what might have been said outside of both testaments.

I don’t know that it would actually all be speculation either. The Vatican holds thousands upon thousands of documents where they might not have been “holy spirit inspired”, and not fit for the bible, but probably are of very important historical value. I would wager that some of these might be Mary’s history. Maybe not all of her history in one set of papers, but maybe a little from here and a little from there where the Church Fathers and Scholars could put 2 and 2 together. Now this is my own idea since I’m no expert, but it’s a very probable scenario.

 

[schaick]

I don’t see why, but, anyway…

Where does the Bible state that Mary was “full of grace”?

Douay-Rheims Bible.

NIV
Luke 1
28The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”

Kng James
Luke 1
28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

But she is definately blessed.

Luke 1
42In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45Blessed is she who has believed that what the Lord has said to her will be accomplished!”

Check out what is said about Stephan:
Acts 6
8Now Stephen, a man full of God’s grace and power, did great wonders and miraculous signs among the people.

Jesus is also full of grace:
John 1
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The problem comparing Mary to Jesus is we also have HIM as being discribed as sinless and no where is Mary discribed as sinless.

Hebrews 4:15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.

1 Peter 2:22"He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth."

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Hi again Therese, if I joined one of those churches you mentioned in another post which I too am familiar with, would I still be sent to hell for not repenting a mortal sin as defined by the CC? What if I merely attended one of those but did not join?

Well, if your intentions for leaving the Church had nothing to do with wanting “a change” or deciding you wouldn’t “obey” anymore…but that something really didn’t sit well with you, then you do what you need to - you know God gave us all free will. Anyway, I can’t judge on whether or not you will be sent to hell if you would like to leave the Church. Attending a different church many times would be just as good as remaining there.

What really bothers you about our Church?

 

[Loboto-Me]

Here you go… a Church Document which was not quite fit for inclusion in the Bible, but is important history. Notice at the very bottom where James writes this:

“And I James that wrote this history in Jerusalem, a commotion having arisen when Herod died, withdrew myself to the wilderness until the commotion in Jerusalem ceased, glorifying the Lord God, who had given me the gift and the wisdom to write this history. And grace shall be with them that fear our Lord Jesus Christ, to whom be glory to ages of ages. Amen.”

This history was written in the time of Herod’s death… is that early enough history of on of our Church Fathers?

The Story of Mary (and her parents) according to the *Protoevangelium of James *

newadvent.org/fathers/0847.htm

 

[larkin31]

I don’t know that it would actually all be speculation either. The Vatican holds thousands upon thousands of documents where they might not have been “holy spirit inspired”, and not fit for the bible, but probably are of very important historical value. I would wager that some of these might be Mary’s history. Maybe not all of her history in one set of papers, but maybe a little from here and a little from there where the Church Fathers and Scholars could put 2 and 2 together. Now this is my own idea since I’m no expert, but it’s a very probable scenario.

Dan Brown just perked up his ears!

 

[larkin31]

Douay-Rheims Bible.

NIV
Luke 1
28The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”

Kng James
Luke 1
28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

But she is definately blessed.

Yes. The KJV uses the phrase “blessed is” 43 times in the NT. There are many blessed people in the scriptures! God handed his blessings around to the good and faithful.

 

[rinnie]

I dont see that at all. In fact, he just expressed that he found the statements shocking, which is understandible. Most Protestants have been brought up with a deficient understanding of the Church. They cannot be assumed to understand such things. Protestantism departs further and futher almost daily from the Apostolic Church. It has gotten to the point where they don’t recognize it anymore, and think that the elements they have subtracted were actually “added” by Catholics.

When one reads these statements and prayers outside of their context, it can certainly seem that way.

I did not see anyone twisting or making things ugly.

rinnie, if you are not willing or able to engage in reasonable discourse on these matters without getting so defensive and accusatory, maybre you need to avoid the non-catholic subforum. This is the place where such perspectives are explored. You may want to review the forum rules. They are quite clear that this section is for the exploration and discussion of differences. That mission is not furthered if you get mad when people disagree, or see things differently.

May God’s peace and tolerance be with you.

Oh My when the rinster’s away the cats will play Whats up with what I said Guan, they took what the Pope said out of context and I was sticking up for my Holy Father. Do you agree with what they are saying? I don’t. What’s up with that? I do not agree with what they said he is said and I spoke my peace. What’t wrong with that? Is disagreeing with them and not being happy with what they accused him of mean I can’t have my say, but they can?

I am with the Pope 100% does that make me out of the debate

 

[Carlan]

Oh My when the rinster’s away the cats will play Whats up with what I said Guan, they took what the Pope said out of context and I was sticking up for my Holy Father. Do you agree with what they are saying? I don’t. What’s up with that? I do not agree with what they said he is said and I spoke my peace. What’t wrong with that? Is disagreeing with them and not being happy with what they accused him of mean I can’t have my say, but they can?

I am with the Pope 100% does that make me out of the debate

Yea, Good for you Rinnie, I’m in your corner, I’ll stick up for my own, I know whose side I am to root for!:thumbsup:Carlan

 

[larkin31]

yay!

is defenestration next?

 

[adrift]

Then why did she get married in the first place if she was not going to have relations with her husband that God created for a husband and wife? Why didn’t she remain single like the Nuns are?

It wasn’t like she could go to the local job corp to support herself. Joseph is thought to be an order man, who married Mary to protect her and give her a home knowing her vow to God.

 

[larkin31]

It wasn’t like she could go to the local job corp to support herself. Joseph is thought to be an order man, who married Mary to protect her and give her a home knowing her vow to God.

really?

the story keeps building…