Where is the justice?

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Last week we had a triple homicide in our city. Where is the justice? Is prison too good for the demons that are out there?
A woman and her two children were killed in a trailer park at night quietly no one heard anything. There was blood all over so probably knife and several assailants. If they are ever caught isn’t prison too good for them? I’m all for them repenting and going to the church even if someone hired them to kill they still have to pay for their crime. I used to be against the death penalty and so has been our state but now I doubt it is a good thing to let such horrific crimes go unpunished and let them out to kill again? What do you think ? Aren’t they possessed as in the bible stories. Our state is now about half divided on capital punishment.
dessert
 
I’m against capital punishment. I do think that prison should be a place of hard labor. Society could improve if one parent could be home to raise the children.

Just my thoughts…
 
Whenever I read about horrific cases of murder, such as this one you describe, I believe the death penalty is justified. Of course, I also believe the courts ought to decide such matters based on cold, hard evidence. After all, it’s not vengeance we should be seeking but (as you say) justice. And sometimes the just thing is to make the criminal pay with his life–when the crime was deliberate and heinous, especially the murder of innocent children.
 
Crimes like these may scream out for it. BUT unless you can be 100% certain that you have the right culprit(s), I am still 100% against it.

Once you execute someone, you can never ever bring them back again. IF you find out you killed the wrong guy, there is absolutely nothing you can do to make it right. No amount of compensation, no amount of apologies can ever make up for killing an innocent guy.

What do you say to the loved ones of someone who is wrongly executed ??? sorry we thought we had the right guy …

IF you want real justice, then the prosecutor, jury and judge who wrongly convicts and executes an innocent man should be executed themselves in reparation. Maybe then they will be pretty darned sure they don’t kill the wrong guy. My guess is you won’t get many or any death penalties passed down.
 
Well I agree that there may not be many convictions so what is the point, I think it will show the demons that we really mean business. It takes a long time to get executions down so if the person is innocent I believe in God’s power to prove it. It has just been too leniant too long. It is like there are no consequences. In this crime it was probably paid so the real criminal is that one but the ones who did the crime are the ones that did the murder and are still free to do another.IMHO our justice system lets too many go and maybe it is time for the pendulam to swing back the other way like in the 60’s.I will keep you posted about the results but this is only the second 3 homicide in our city’s history so as I sure others all that have been through this it is a cultural shock. The funeral is this saturday and it was a low income family but the city is pulling together and the clergy to make it healing time. We are stunned and this will sadly I have to say hope not ever but if it doesn’t get solved will be on something like city confedential
which I watch and would have never ever thought would happen here. Famous last words! I appreciate any other thoughts on the capital punishment and how it has worked for your state thanks dessert
 
The point is: if you are for the death penalty, are you ready to allow an innocent man get executed ???

Regardless of how long it takes. courts are made up of humans and humans can and do get it wrong. Mistakes have been made in the past and you can be sure that if the DP is freely allowed, mistakes will be made again. Unfortunately God does sometimes allow innocent folks to get executed.

It’s great when you are right and you remove a known killer from society. BUT when you are wrong, how on earth do you apologize to his family ??? You simply can’t.

So unless you put the stipulations (ie hold the judge, jury and prosecutors directly accountable) that I mentioned, I don’t think we ought to have a DP.
 
dessert said:
Well I agree that there may not be many convictions so what is the point, I think it will show the demons that we really mean business. It takes a long time to get executions down so if the person is innocent I believe in God’s power to prove it. It has just been too leniant too long. It is like there are no consequences. In this crime it was probably paid so the real criminal is that one but the ones who did the crime are the ones that did the murder and are still free to do another.IMHO our justice system lets too many go and maybe it is time for the pendulam to swing back the other way like in the 60’s.I will keep you posted about the results but this is only the second 3 homicide in our city’s history so as I sure others all that have been through this it is a cultural shock. The funeral is this saturday and it was a low income family but the city is pulling together and the clergy to make it healing time. We are stunned and this will sadly I have to say hope not ever but if it doesn’t get solved will be on something like city confedential
which I watch and would have never ever thought would happen here. Famous last words! I appreciate any other thoughts on the capital punishment and how it has worked for your state thanks dessert
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so you’re convinced that the people who did this are possessed by demons? As opposed to perhaps being mentally ill for completely natural reasons or something?

And you think killing the killers will have any impact at all on those demons? Demons are spirits, remember - what you do to the body of the person they’re possessing in terms of torture or killing would likely have little or no impact.

Try confronting them with an exorcist if you want - if they are possessed and the exorcism works then you’ve saved that poor person’s body AND soul, which can only be the most desirabe outcome.
 
I believe that the mentally ill are ill because of biological reasons, substance abuse, demntia, brain injury etc. but aren’t these people most used for demon possession? They are not in control of themselves, or very dependant on society to rule their lives. They have a suspect now who is a violent sex offender and if he is the one didn’t he execute a woman and two children for the reasons going on his mind? Yes I wish for any of them to have their souls saved even the family which who knows if they did. I have always been against the dp but I am rethinking all the issues involved. Is it me who is going to be the judge? Don’t you think that they feel bad if they make a mistake about an innocent man? We all make mistakes but are there that many out there? A doctor has a slip of a knife and accidentally cuts a nerve but there is ussually compansation because he didn’t mean to but someone who deliberately kills who is giving anything to the woman and two children 15 and 17. And this killer should get to sit in prison for 30 years and continue to attack while in their and threaten others? I don’t know what I could decide if it comes to a vote in the spring elections. Even if I say no I think there will be 2 to say yes to the dp. I always felt I should follow my own convictions but when will it stop?dessert
 
LilyM said:
so you’re convinced that the people who did this are possessed by demons? As opposed to perhaps being mentally ill for completely natural reasons or something?

And you think killing the killers will have any impact at all on those demons? Demons are spirits, remember - what you do to the body of the person they’re possessing in terms of torture or killing would likely have little or no impact.

Try confronting them with an exorcist if you want - if they are possessed and the exorcism works then you’ve saved that poor person’s body AND soul, which can only be the most desirabe outcome.
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Didn’t Jesus put the demon spirits into the pigs and cast them over the cliff to be killed so I would love to see exorcism in the prison system as of course and prayer for the persons soul. I send money to the prison ministry for the publ word among us and they also send it to the service men and women but I think you could even read about how they help, but some do not get it, they continue to kill. Murder is murder so is abortion so that is another reason against the dp because I know women make stupid mistakes and we try to stop the abortions and forgiveness is the most desirable outcome. Our bishop has said we should be against because that is our present state law and so do want to abide by the church so this is what is acceptable . Correct? It is going to be a dilemma for us catholics. dessert
 
I attended the funeral today with another person from our parish and it had a packed church. It was at a very lovely luthern church and it was hard to sit through it:( but I am glad I did it helped me to accept. The minister said he didn’t want us to blame God and not to blame ourselves. The guilty suspect appears to be very ill mentally and it will be a long time solving. The TV station was there but the minister made them stay across the street. Most everyone was still in shock and a lot of tears and silence but I feel a closure and so the victims will be cremated and plots were donated and a fund is set up at the bank for the rest of the family. thank you for your prayers. dessert
 
dessert said:
Last week we had a triple homicide in our city. Where is the justice? Is prison too good for the demons that are out there?
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Dessert,

I oppose the death penalty, not because criminals don’t deserve it, but because we as a society have gotten too fond of killing people. If society cannot be kept safe from somebody then yes, the death penalty is necessary, but that is generally not the case in the United States.

Your question about letting criminals go unpunished if they repent and go to church reflects the Protestant confusion between forgiveness and expiation. If the criminals repent and apologize, we should be glad to forgive them, but they still need to suffer the temporal consequences of their crime–which consists of a VERY long prison term.

As for the question in your title (“Where is the justice?”), I have often told my children that if they want justice they are looking on the wrong planet. There will be justice in Purgatory and Hell.
  • Liberian
 
He will be in a hospital and receiving the worlds punishment but I think you are right two wrongs do not make a right.

God my Father has turned me to the Psalms. 89; 14 -15
Mighty your arm, strong your hand, your right hand is ever exalted. Justice and judgement are the foundation of your throne; love and loyalty march before .
85; 11,12
Love and truth will meet; justice and peace will kiss. Truth will spring from the earth; justice will look down from heaven.

The man that did the crime will be living out his penance now and forever so I must forgive to get peace for my own soul and pray for the souls that died.

And all of Psam 73 God is just and good!
Thank you for all your prayers for me and our entire city! dessert
 
Liberian said:
Dessert,

I oppose the death penalty, not because criminals don’t deserve it, but because we as a society have gotten too fond of killing people.
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That is totally and utterly false. How many crimes are *NOT *punishable by death compared to a 100 yrs ago? What about compared to 500 years ago?
 
wabrams said:
That is totally and utterly false. How many crimes are *NOT *punishable by death compared to a 100 yrs ago? What about compared to 500 years ago?
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W Abrams,

The United States has lost a quarter of its rising generation to the deliberate and state-sanctioned murder of abortion. A couple of years ago a woman in Florida was deliberately starved to death because she could not fend for herself. In the Netherlands, old people are afraid to go see a doctor because they fear that he might “euthanize” them without their consent. Our society’s fondness for killing people has very little to do with capital punishment.
  • Liberian
 
The State of Wisconsin has one of the lowest capital murder rates per thousand population in the US. Texas, a strong capital punishment state has one of the highest. It would seem that a violent society breeds more violence. The US has many more murders per capita than the countries of Europe which do not have the death penalty. We are almost alone in the Western nations when it comes to our advocacy of the death penalty and we have the most violent crime. Just a coincidence?
 
dessert said:
Last week we had a triple homicide in our city. Where is the justice? Is prison too good for the demons that are out there?
A woman and her two children were killed in a trailer park at night quietly no one heard anything. There was blood all over so probably knife and several assailants. If they are ever caught isn’t prison too good for them? I’m all for them repenting and going to the church even if someone hired them to kill they still have to pay for their crime. I used to be against the death penalty and so has been our state but now I doubt it is a good thing to let such horrific crimes go unpunished and let them out to kill again? What do you think ? Aren’t they possessed as in the bible stories. Our state is now about half divided on capital punishment.
dessert
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Interestingly, in scripture we never see locking someone up as a punishment for a crime. If there is restitution to be made it is commenserate with the crime. If murder then they have forfeited their life. It would be an injustice for him to be locked up. It would be an injustice for him to live.

Mel
 
Liberian said:
W Abrams,

The United States has lost a quarter of its rising generation to the deliberate and state-sanctioned murder of abortion. A couple of years ago a woman in Florida was deliberately starved to death because she could not fend for herself. In the Netherlands, old people are afraid to go see a doctor because they fear that he might “euthanize” them without their consent. Our society’s fondness for killing people has very little to do with capital punishment.
  • Liberian
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Strangely, we have become very fond of killing the innocent and letting the guilty go unpunished (relatively). Many commit murder and do 20 years (or less) and are released. Or they murder again in prison.

I see nothing wrong with capital punishment, if properly applied. It may, in fact, help lead the condemned to repentance and salvation through the immediacy of the end. I think it is probably easier to repent when you do in fact know “the day and the hour”.
 
The evil behind wilful murder is the same evil behind abortion.

It is also very clever to use the system to get it to support its evil ends. Only by us being good ourselves and praying for those in authority, is there any hope in a just and supportive society.

Perhaps we could think about doing penance to expiate the evil in society that leads to killing and the death culture which prevails.
 
dessert said:
. Is it me who is going to be the judge? Don’t you think that they feel bad if they make a mistake about an innocent man? We all make mistakes but are there that many out there? A doctor has a slip of a knife and accidentally cuts a nerve but there is ussually compansation because he didn’t mean to but someone who deliberately kills who is giving anything to the woman and two children 15 and 17. And this killer should get to sit in prison for 30 years and continue to attack while in their and threaten others? I don’t know what I could decide if it comes to a vote in the spring elections. …

when will it stop?dessert
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Listen to yourself ! Is life so meaningless to you that it is okay for some jury or judge to execute you wrongly for a crime you did not commit ???

Just another mistake ???

How would you feel IF YOU are the one mistakenly executed ??? How would you feel if your son or brother were wrongly executed ???

“I’m sorry, we made a mistake”, just doesn’t cut it.

It’s one thing for some to accidently take a life, in an accident or on an operating table. Those are some of the risks of living around cars or getting an operation.

BUT to be wrongly convicted of a murder and then to be killed because of it, CAN be avoided IF you are stll alive to be exonerated. IF they kill you, they can NOT bring you back to life.

The death penalty can NOT be reversed, once you are DEAD, no one can bring you back to life. YES mistakes are made all the time, and that is precisely why the DP should be illegal.
 
wcknight said:
Listen to yourself ! Is life so meaningless to you that it is okay for some jury or judge to execute you wrongly for a crime you did not commit ???

Just another mistake ???

How would you feel IF YOU are the one mistakenly executed ??? How would you feel if your son or brother were wrongly executed ???

“I’m sorry, we made a mistake”, just doesn’t cut it.

It’s one thing for some to accidently take a life, in an accident or on an operating table. Those are some of the risks of living around cars or getting an operation.

BUT to be wrongly convicted of a murder and then to be killed because of it, CAN be avoided IF you are stll alive to be exonerated. IF they kill you, they can NOT bring you back to life.

The death penalty can NOT be reversed, once you are DEAD, no one can bring you back to life. YES mistakes are made all the time, and that is precisely why the DP should be illegal.
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There are really very few that are wrongly accused, if you look at all the statistics. A person on death row is usually there for 10 to 20 or 30 years that is a long time to suffer anyways and go to God eventually death in the end and the person knows that they could die anyways in prison in that amount of time so what difference does it make if they are convicted and sentenced to 30 years to life that is the same as saying they are sentenced to 30years or when you are dead.

Society says we want to see you suffer a long time in prison that is where they are getting there glee aha are they still in prison good! Do the ones innocent even get out, not hardly.

The person committed this crime is going to plead mental so he will go to a health institution and probably get out later or put in a group home.

there are worse things than death of the body, death of the soul and maybe before death row he can get the word of God but it is up to him to accept it and if he takes his good old time making up his mind then that is his own sentence on his own life his choice as the system likes to say today.

Meanwhile he likes to be ill and have fits of rage and temper tantrums because he is mad at someone and we have to do something to stop this. Look at what is happening in the workworld the schools etc. At my work we call the police right away and that person talks to the police , even if they don’t get arrested then they know thaey have done something against all society not just one person. Is this what is NOT JUSTICE !
dessert
 
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