Where is the spoken word?

[rod_of_iron]

1962Missal:

I’m sorry but your interpretation of 2 Thess. 2:15 is a novelty of your own invention. It bears no testimony from the early Church. There is nothing to support your interpretation but your own bias.

My interpretation is based on the what I read. The verse is in plain English. I can read plain English. There is no other logical interpretation of the verse, unless you add extra words to it.

1962Missal:

One of the really neat things about the ECF’s is what magnificent polemicists they were. Anything they disagreed with was thoroughly discredited in their writings.

But since they did not receive any revelation to instruct them on how to interpret the writings, the ECF’s just offered their opinions.

1962Missal:

But according to what was written by the ECF’s, it is. We don’t go by the Bible alone, here.

Sure, you also go by Sacred Tradition, something that Jesus and his disciples never instituted.

1962Missal:

And we really aren’t called to convince every cynic that accosts us, either. We are called to give a reason for the hope that is in us, and we have charitably done so.

Yes, you have been charitable. But you have not proven your claims.

 

[rod_of_iron]

rod of iron:

My interpretation is based on the what I read. The verse is in plain English. I can read plain English. There is no other logical interpretation of the verse, unless you add extra words to it.

But since they did not receive any revelation to instruct them on how to interpret the writings, the ECF’s just offered their opinions.

Sure, you also go by Sacred Tradition, something that Jesus and his disciples never instituted.

Yes, you have been charitable. But you have not proven your claims.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

SPOKENWORD:

Its very possible that those who think they are hearing from the Holy Spirit are in error…

How then can one be infallibley certain that the ARE hearing from the holy Spirit?

 

[SPOKENWORD]

How then can one be infallibley certain that the ARE hearing from the holy Spirit?

The Lord said that my sheep hear my voice. Do you hear His voice? Are you one of His sheep?. If you do you then know.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

SPOKENWORD:

The Lord said that my sheep hear my voice. Do you hear His voice? Are you one of His sheep?. If you do you then know.

This doesn’t answer my question. You stated that one can believe that they are lead by the Spirit yet be mistaken about that. That would mean that one can believe that they are one of His sheep, hearing his voice, but be mistaken. If this is possible then how, specifically, can one be infallibley certain that they are NOT mistaken and are really hearing God? Thanks!

 

[SPOKENWORD]

This doesn’t answer my question. You stated that one can believe that they are lead by the Spirit yet be mistaken about that. That would mean that one can believe that they are one of His sheep, hearing his voice, but be mistaken. If this is possible then how, specifically, can one be infallibley certain that they are NOT mistaken and are really hearing God? Thanks!

THERE ARE ONLY TWO SPIRITS. ONE IS FROM GOD THE OTHER FROM SATAN? NOW DO YOU RECOGNIZE HIS VOICE?

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

SPOKENWORD:

THERE ARE ONLY TWO SPIRITS. ONE IS FROM GOD THE OTHER FROM SATAN? NOW DO YOU RECOGNIZE HIS VOICE?

Again, if your previous statement is true…

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Originally Posted by SPOKENWORD
Its very possible that those who think they are hearing from the Holy Spirit are in error
***then how can one be infallibley certain that they are, in fact, hearing from the holy Spirit and are not in error? *Thanks!

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Again, if your previous statement is true…

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Originally Posted by SPOKENWORD
Its very possible that those who think they are hearing from the Holy Spirit are in error
***then how can one be infallibley certain that they are, in fact, hearing from the holy Spirit and are not in error? ***Thanks!

Does the Holy Spirit teach error? I dont think so. So how do we as christians know when we are in error? When we test the sprit to see if is contrary to Gods written word.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

SPOKENWORD:

Does the Holy Spirit teach error? I dont think so. So how do we as christians know when we are in error? When we test the sprit to see if is contrary to Gods written word.

***In light of the conflicting and contradictory interpretations of scripture among believers how can one be infallibley certain they they have the correct interpretation against which to test the spirit? ***

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Since all believers “know” that they have the correct interpretation, even though it conflicts with the interpretations of other believers who also “know” that theirs is correct, how can one know infallibley that they have the correct interpretation? Clearly, simply believing that one’s interpretation is correct doesn’t make it so.

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Where do you believe that scripture supports your statement that one must test the spirits against the WRITTEN word?

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If you have a chance, if you could touch on my original question that would be great! Thanks!

 

[SPOKENWORD]

***In light of the conflicting and contradictory interpretations of scripture among believers how can one be infallibley certain they they have the correct interpretation against which to test the spirit? ***

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Since all believers “know” that they have the correct interpretation, even though it conflicts with the interpretations of other believers who also “know” that theirs is correct, how can one know infallibley that they have the correct interpretation? Clearly, simply believing that one’s interpretation is correct doesn’t make it so.

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Where do you believe that scripture supports your statement that one must test the spirits against the WRITTEN word?

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If you have a chance, if you could touch on my original question that would be great! Thanks!

This is how you recognize the spirit of god. READ 1JOHN4,2-3 and ACTS 17 v11.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

SPOKENWORD:

This is how you recognize the spirit of god. READ 1JOHN4,2-3 and ACTS 17 v11.

***But you said that one can believe that they are recognizing it but be in error. If it’s possible, as you say, for one to BELIEVE that he is hearing God’s voice but in REALITY he is not, how then can one know that he isn’t when he believes that he is? ***

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Maybe I’m not wording my question clearly.

 

[jimmy]

SPOKENWORD:

This is how you recognize the spirit of god. READ 1JOHN4,2-3 and ACTS 17 v11.

2

By this is the spirit of God known. Every spirit which confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God: 3 And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God: and this is Antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, and he is now already in the world. *

Catholics proclaim Jesus to come from God into flesh and protestants proclaim Jesus came from God into flesh but what about on the doctrines of Mary and the other doctrines. By your test all Christians would be filled and guided by the Holy Spirit. But that can not be true. Catholics believe that praying to the saints and Mary is good. Protestants do not pray to Mary or the saints. Catholics blieve praying for the people who have died is benificial. Protestants do not.
By your test all Christians would pass. But this can not be true. Some are being led by Satan.

 

[jimmy]

I forgot one of the most important differences between Catholics and protestants. The Eucharist. If the Eucharist is really the body of Christ, then you are definitly not being led by the Spirit of God.

The point is that you can not test the Holy Spirit or Satan because it is impossible to know the truth without the Holy Spirit. So if you are being led by Satan it is impossible to know that you are on the wrong path, on your own.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

* *

Catholics proclaim Jesus to come from God into flesh and protestants proclaim Jesus came from God into flesh but what about on the doctrines of Mary and the other doctrines. By your test all Christians would be filled and guided by the Holy Spirit. But that can not be true. Catholics believe that praying to the saints and Mary is good. Protestants do not pray to Mary or the saints. Catholics blieve praying for the people who have died is benificial. Protestants do not.
By your test all Christians would pass. But this can not be true. Some are being led by Satan.

In my oppinion you and catholic 4areason just dont understand where im coming from. We are talking about whether a spirit is from God or not. I quoted scripture on how to test it to see if its from God .Now as far as interpreting Gods word correctly thats another story. In honesty its not been an issue with me. God does give us the gift of discernment.Are there those who are in error,absolutely. Will we get it all right?. Good Question.

 

[jimmy]

SPOKENWORD:

In my oppinion you and catholic 4areason just dont understand where im coming from. We are talking about whether a spirit is from God or not. I quoted scripture on how to test it to see if its from God .Now as far as interpreting Gods word correctly thats another story. In honesty its not been an issue with me. God does give us the gift of discernment.Are there those who are in error,absolutely. Will we get it all right?. Good Question.

I have no idea what you are talking about then. If this has nothing to do with interpreting scripture then what does it have to do with?

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

SPOKENWORD:

In my oppinion you and catholic 4areason just dont understand where im coming from. We are talking about whether a spirit is from God or not. I quoted scripture on how to test it to see if its from God .Now as far as interpreting Gods word correctly thats another story. In honesty its not been an issue with me. God does give us the gift of discernment.Are there those who are in error,absolutely. Will we get it all right?. Good Question.

Perhaps it would be helpful for you to define “spirit” as you understand it (as in “spirit is from God or not”) to be sure we are all on the same page.

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I’m not meaning this in an argumentative way at all, please don’t take it as such…I’m genuinely curious about your train of thought on this. If there are those who are in error in their understanding of scripture (clearly without being aware of it) how can you be sure that you’ve been given the gift of discernment and that accuarcy of interpretation is not an issue for you? Is it possible that you are one of those who is in error without realizing it? Why or why not? Thanks!

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Perhaps it would be helpful for you to define “spirit” as you understand it (as in “spirit is from God or not”) to be sure we are all on the same page.

---

I’m not meaning this in an argumentative way at all, please don’t take it as such…I’m genuinely curious about your train of thought on this. If there are those who are in error in their understanding of scripture (clearly without being aware of it) how can you be sure that you’ve been given the gift of discernment and that accuarcy of interpretation is not an issue for you? Is it possible that you are one of those who is in error without realizing it? Why or why not? Thanks!

So how do we recognize whether a spirit is from God our from satan? Thats where the gift of discernment comes in. That gift is for the situation at hand. This gift allows us to distinguishes one spirit from another and identifies it. This gift really has nothing to do with interpreting scripture, Boy im starting to go in circles with this. Why dont you tell me the answer that your looking for. Then we will both know?

 

[jimmy]

SPOKENWORD:

So how do we recognize whether a spirit is from God our from satan? Thats where the gift of discernment comes in. That gift is for the situation at hand. This gift allows us to distinguishes one spirit from another and identifies it. This gift really has nothing to do with interpreting scripture, Boy im starting to go in circles with this. Why dont you tell me the answer that your looking for. Then we will both know?

It sounds like you are saying that all the Spirit of God tells you is that Jesus is God and that he is the savior of the world. You are basically saying that the Spirit of God does not help to interpret the bible.

In truth the spirit of God guides us to all truth. Not only the truth that Jesus is our savior.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

jimmy:

It sounds like you are saying that all the Spirit of God tells you is that Jesus is God and that he is the savior of the world. You are basically saying that the Spirit of God does not help to interpret the bible.

In truth the spirit of God guides us to all truth. Not only the truth that Jesus is our savior.

Individual believers can come to SOME understanding of the scripture while reading it, but scripture tells us that there are things that are difficult to understand and can be misinterpreted (2 Peter 3:16). Therefore, scripture makes it clear that we must have a guide in order to properly understand scripture.

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This is made evident in Acts 8:30-31. The eunuch needed to be properly instructed in order to understand scripture. Philip’s action? He doesn’t tell the eunuch “just pray to the holy Spirit and he’ll guide you”. He gets up into the chariot and teaches the eunuch himself because he has the authority to do so***.***

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If we are to come to a full understanding of the truth we must follow the guides that the Lord has given us.

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[SPOKENWORD]

jimmy:

It sounds like you are saying that all the Spirit of God tells you is that Jesus is God and that he is the savior of the world. You are basically saying that the Spirit of God does not help to interpret the bible.

In truth the spirit of God guides us to all truth. Not only the truth that Jesus is our savior.

Yes Jimmy the spirit of God guides us in all truth. The Holy Spirit does not contradict itself.What im saying God gives those whom he wishes the gift of discerment for the purpose of identifing demonic spirits.