Where is the support for families? Just kind of a rant

[TheLittleLady]

If I had a nickel for every time we reserved the space, bought refreshments, scheduled a staffer to unlock the place for a young adult fellowship or women’s study or association of left-handed Catholics only to have no-one show up.

These days it is difficult for new groups to start up because of all the legalities and safe environment rules. You cannot just have some teens babysit, you must have adults who have been background checked.

I’m going to bet if you could find a way to rally some other parents of youngsters who would commit to a weekly or monthly group, then the parish staff will make it happen. Could you simply be a “call or email Suzy Smith if you would be interested” sort of contact?

 

[LuckyLexi]

If I had a nickel for every time we reserved the space, bought refreshments, scheduled a staffer to unlock the place for a young adult fellowship or women’s study or association of left-handed Catholics only to have no-one show up

Did you provide childcare at such events? Where they scheduled in the evenings when little children are already in bed?

Funny non-denominational churches don’t have any trouble hiring background checked employees to watch kids.

At my church, I have already asked. They have no interest. They offer bible study, for adults, no childcare, and it’s in the evenings. They turned their childcare room into additional choir space, because the choir brings in many more bodies (especially at the holidays) than offering childcare for a few families, and they sell CDs and make money off the choir, and childcare COSTS money, so I can’t say I don’t see where they are coming from, but…

 

[TheLittleLady]

Yes. Early, late, afternoon, morning, weekends, alternate Tuesdays, before 6 PM, after 7 PM… we have tried every iteration. The only thing that we have asked is that people confirm they will attend so we know how many kids to prepare for. Nope.

A parish survey rated a nursery as very important, so, we built a nursery and hired staff (in our state we have to meet the same standards as a licensed daycare). That staff watches 3 to 5 children (we have 1200 parish families).

Responders ask for Bible studies and small groups, but, when we try it, no one really wants to make time.

I’d be willing to guess that your parish staff has also tried many things that did not work. Yes it is a terrible excuse, but, it is easy to get discouraged when working at a parish.

An insider suggestion? Try to go to a parish council meeting and talk to them about it. Parish council can get things done when even staff cannot.

 

[LuckyLexi]

Yes. Early, late, afternoon, morning, weekends, alternate Tuesdays, before 6 PM, after 7 PM… we have tried every iteration. The only thing that we have asked is that people confirm they will attend so we know how many kids to prepare for. Nope.

A parish survey rated a nursery as very important, so, we built a nursery and hired staff (in our state we have to meet the same standards as a licensed daycare). That staff watches 3 to 5 children (we have 1200 parish families).

Responders ask for Bible studies and small groups, but, when we try it, no one really wants to make time.

I’d be willing to guess that your parish staff has also tried many things that did not work. Yes it is a terrible excuse, but, it is easy to get discouraged when working at a parish.

An insider suggestion? Try to go to a parish council meeting and talk to them about it. Parish council can get things done when even staff cannot.

Our parish does have adult bible studies and young adult social events (which when I went, with my kid (I was assured he would be welcome) I was an outcast because I was not single and I had a toddler, now I have 3 kids) that are well attended, as far as I’m aware, so I don’t think they are feeling much incentive to change.

 

[Xantippe]

Some thoughts:

–I’ve organized a moms’ Bible study myself that ran through Luke and Acts. The parish provided us with books that had commentaries and discussion questions. It was a great experience but a) I had just the one infant and b) my husband helped with her.
–I’ve been in several Catholic mom groups that worked OK with no childcare.
–There is a BIG Catholic mom’s Meetup in our area (like 70+ moms on the rolls). Meetup is a good way to organize a group that will get attention from a large geographical area. I have to fess up to not having gone to their events, but it is a good resource. I also have to confess to being the sort of person who hates leaving home by myself after dark. Once it’s dark, if I’m home, I’m staying home, unless I have a really good reason to leave, so evening mom events do not appeal to me.
–Our old parish used to have childcare on Wed. night. Big kids would be in CCE, little kids would be penned up in the parish hall (literally penned up), and adults could go to adult education or reading groups. It was fantastic–we should have gone more often.
–A nursery is a phenomenal resource. We wound up attending one parish during Baby Girl’s friskiest years mostly because they had a staffed nursery.

 

[babochka]

I’m sorry you’re having such a hard time. I know that it is a reality that Catholic parishes, on the whole, fail to meet the real needs of families. We just don’t do community all that well. And I really hate the answers that say that we have the sacraments and we don’t need any of the other stuff. That’s not how God made us. We, in the image of God, who is himself a community, are made for community. (I say this as in introvert who is not a “joiner”.)

I have found that I need to look outside of my parish for Catholic community support. Individual parishes might not have much, but often people from a number of local parishes will get together for Bible studies, talks, etc. These days, my community is mostly made up of fellow homeschooling moms. We get together for all sort of things. Childcare is rarely formally provided, but in the homeschooling crowd, everyone is welcome to bring their kids. If there’s any sort of child care, it is generally the teenagers trying to keep everyone happy in one room. One notable exception to that is M.O.M.S or Ministry of Mothers Sharing. They always had childcare. Truth is, I’m not inclined to leave my kids in childcare. I’d rather have them with me or leave them with my husband, but I can understand how it would make-or-break involvement for some people.

I pray that you are able to connect with fellow Catholics soon.

 

[Xantippe]

True story:

Our kids have been attending CCE/youth group at a big local parish for the last several years. I just found out this month that there is a parent Bible study during CCE that has been running for the past 20+ years.

???

I had NO idea.

 

[Annie]

Just want to chime in and say, I feel for you! I wanted to start a Mom’s group years ago and could not get it off the ground…

TBH, I don’t believe in church nursuries during Mass. Nothing like switching a child from a fun time with other kids to behaving, sitting still, and being quiet in Mass. I kept them with me from the beginning and even stayed out of crying rooms after my baby was stepped on by a completely undisciplined 5-year-old.

As to your bedtime difficulties: this needs to be addressed, and there’s a good chance your husband will do better at getting their attention than your will. First, you need to have a routine, second, your need to persevere in teaching them the routine. We did baths, reading, prayers, and bed, it’s not good for the family or for the children to have bedtime be a mess, and your husband can and should help.

 

[LuckyLexi]

Just want to chime in and say, I feel for you! I wanted to start a Mom’s group years ago and could not get it off the ground…

TBH, I don’t believe in church nursuries during Mass. Nothing like switching a child from a fun time with other kids to behaving, sitting still, and being quiet in Mass. I kept them with me from the beginning and even stayed out of crying rooms after my baby was stepped on by a completely undisciplined 5-year-old.

As to your bedtime difficulties: this needs to be addressed, and there’s a good chance your husband will do better at getting their attention than your will. First, you need to have a routine, second, your need to persevere in teaching them the routine. We did baths, reading, prayers, and bed, it’s not good for the family or for the children to have bedtime be a mess, and your husband can and should help.

I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut, everyone’s experience is different.

My family and I grew up in a Baptist church with a ROBUST nursery program (my mom was a volunteer for many years) and not one of us had any trouble adjusting to “Big Church”. There wasn’t a rash group of 5 year olds running rampant in church when they graduated nursery, it just didn’t happen.

Our children’s sleep habits are not really the topic of this discussion. I’m sure your advice comes from a good place, but I did not ask for nor do I need you to judge my family’s bedtime routine. My husband is equally or more involved with bedtime as I am, but we have enough kids that I do not do it on my own nor do I expect him to.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Annie:

Just want to chime in and say, I feel for you! I wanted to start a Mom’s group years ago and could not get it off the ground…

TBH, I don’t believe in church nursuries during Mass. Nothing like switching a child from a fun time with other kids to behaving, sitting still, and being quiet in Mass. I kept them with me from the beginning and even stayed out of crying rooms after my baby was stepped on by a completely undisciplined 5-year-old.

As to your bedtime difficulties: this needs to be addressed, and there’s a good chance your husband will do better at getting their attention than your will. First, you need to have a routine, second, your need to persevere in teaching them the routine. We did baths, reading, prayers, and bed, it’s not good for the family or for the children to have bedtime be a mess, and your husband can and should help.

I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut, everyone’s experience is different.

My family and I grew up in a Baptist church with a ROBUST nursery program (my mom was a volunteer for many years) and not one of us had any trouble adjusting to “Big Church”. There wasn’t a rash group of 5 year olds running rampant in church when they graduated nursery, it just didn’t happen.

Our children’s sleep habits are not really the topic of this discussion. I’m sure your advice comes from a good place, but I did not ask for nor do I need you to judge my family’s bedtime routine. My husband is equally or more involved with bedtime as I am, but we have enough kids that I do not do it on my own nor do I expect him to.

I think your issue is that you can’t get what you want, which is someone from the church to watch your children.

You know, many of us get it, we’re there, we’ve btdt. Some of us go to or have gone to, churches that offer nurseries. We’re sharing our experiences.

Quite frankly, Baptist church–with it’s sitting and singing, is quite a bit different than the Mass, and much more difficult for a child to follow along. It’s not a matter of being disciplined enough to sit still.

You have to do Mass alone because you insist that you must bring your children. But why, if you’re going to use a nursery anyway, do you need to? Just leave them home with their father. Enjoy the Mass. Stay for Cofee and donuts.

Your parish offers a bible study. Even if they offered care, you’d still be running into the bedtime issue.

Look, if you want daycare it’s not likely you’re going to find it in the Catholic Church right now. Also, between the safe environment training and background checks, etc, I guarantee you that any childcare volunteers are much more vetted than at other Non-Catholic churches.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

It sounds like you need your husband to step up with the kids to be honest. I really don’t see why you can’t leave them with him in the evening.

I think you may have to adjust your expectations with your parish. There often isn’t the enthusiasm or enough of the right people to get specific groups up and running, I remember the frustration of graduating only to find myself in a parish with no one my age.

I go to a grow group at a non-Catholic church as I need more than an hour a weeks support. I would at least try out other groups.

 

[Annie]

I apologize for my comments about your children’s bedtime: you are quite correct.

 

[pianistclare]

There’s a big difference in nurseries in other churches because the purpose for the children is different. The purpose to is the get parents and kids to believe that Church is FUN! We should go! All the time!
In the Catholic environment, it is for parents to get a break, to help others focus on the sacred mysteries of the Mass and the Word, and to offer a safe place for small children who probably have no clue what is going on in Mass to play or nap. Many priests love hearing children in Mass. This is the reality of life for families. Families have kids. Kids are our future. We don’t see them as a negative. We see Sunday school as something that is necessary for faith, not a pastime.

Have you discussed this with your pastor? Have you any ideas for beefing up the staffing of the nursery? Have you approached the Elders of the parish, seeking grannies who might enjoy rocking a baby on Sunday mornings?

This is a good article by blogger Simcha Fisher:

https://www.catholicweekly.com.au/simcha-fisher-take-noisy-little-kids-mass/

I will end by saying that as the former DRE of my parish, I attempted SEVERAL times to get the Church Nursery up and running.
NO ONE, but NO ONE wanted to help out. Parents didn’t want to take a turn in it because “they didn’t go to church to watch someone else’s brat” other parents said “I’ve done my time, it’s not my problem anymore” , my catechists were overloaded, to begin with, and the priest didn’t see why anyone wouldn’t want to bring their kids into the Mass, and said he really didn’t care how much they acted up, that families should be together int he pew.
I even had a parent offer to PAY a nursery worker weekly, and the pastor said NO WAY.
Couple that with the Safe Environment screening and Virtus training, and people were like “yeah…NO”.

I don’t know what the answer is, but comparing Catholic nurseries to nurseries in other denoms is not a good comparison. The Mass is a Sacrament.

 

[LuckyLexi]

I think your issue is that you can’t get what you want, which is someone from the church to watch your children.

You know, many of us get it, we’re there, we’ve btdt. Some of us go to or have gone to, churches that offer nurseries. We’re sharing our experiences.

Quite frankly, Baptist church–with it’s sitting and singing, is quite a bit different than the Mass, and much more difficult for a child to follow along. It’s not a matter of being disciplined enough to sit still.

You have to do Mass alone because you insist that you must bring your children. But why, if you’re going to use a nursery anyway, do you need to? Just leave them home with their father. Enjoy the Mass. Stay for Cofee and donuts.

Your parish offers a bible study. Even if they offered care, you’d still be running into the bedtime issue.

Look, if you want daycare it’s not likely you’re going to find it in the Catholic Church right now. Also, between the safe environment training and background checks, etc, I guarantee you that any childcare volunteers are much more vetted than at other Non-Catholic churches.

No, I don’t think you get it. I could pay people watching my children anywhere. I was a little miffed the day I started this the mom-social opportunities that were available at protestant churches. I am desperate for socialization. I don’t have friends. I am trying, I’m going to mom groups, I’m going to parks, I’m doing it - but it would be FABULOUS to be able to socialize with other Catholic moms, and maybe experience some spiritual growth and mutual support.

My church doesn’t do coffee and donuts, maybe it’s time I find another church…

I find it offensive that you would find me wanting to meet with other catholic moms and support each other and change that to “daycare”.

And for the record, some of their adult bible study is after the first sunday mass, so no, not a bedtime issue.

My parent’s church started doing background checks when I was still a child, so no, it isn’t an issue. Both my parents were volunteers. And it isn’t that hard to get people trained, I’ve done it and kept up on my training, I wish people would stop using that as an excuse.

 

[LuckyLexi]

As for nursery, I want to look forward to mass, not stress over how I’m going to keep my kids quiet for an hour. They generally last 30-45 minutes, but by the end…and then I just started a new one.

One of the main reasons my DH does NOT go to mass (he is not catholic, but does go occasionally for me) is because having the kids in with him STRESSES him out. I have trained myself, for lack of a better word, to be okay with “happy noise” from the kids, and even some “unhappy noise” . I have read multiple blogs like the above posted. I know it is okay. But DH doesn’t, even “happy” noise from my 2 year old bothers him, makes him very distressed and he wants to whisk them out to the Nave at the slightest giggle.

And if DH comes with me, there is no one to keep them at home.

 

[TC3033]

There’s a big difference in nurseries in other churches because the purpose for the children is different. The purpose to is the get parents and kids to believe that Church is FUN! We should go! All the time!
In the Catholic environment, it is for parents to get a break, to help others focus on the sacred mysteries of the Mass and the Word, and to offer a safe place for small children who probably have no clue what is going on in Mass to play or nap. Many priests love hearing children in Mass. This is the reality of life for families. Families have kids. Kids are our future. We don’t see them as a negative. We see Sunday school as something that is necessary for faith, not a pastime.

Have you discussed this with your pastor? Have you any ideas for beefing up the staffing of the nursery? Have you approached the Elders of the parish, seeking grannies who might enjoy rocking a baby on Sunday mornings?

This is a good article by blogger Simcha Fisher:

Simcha Fisher: Why do I take my noisy little kids to Mass?

I will end by saying that as the former DRE of my parish, I attempted SEVERAL times to get the Church Nursery up and running.
NO ONE, but NO ONE wanted to help out. Parents didn’t want to take a turn in it because “they didn’t go to church to watch someone else’s brat” other parents said “I’ve done my time, it’s not my problem anymore” , my catechists were overloaded, to begin with, and the priest didn’t see why anyone wouldn’t want to bring their kids into the Mass, and said he really didn’t care how much they acted up, that families should be together int he pew.
I even had a parent offer to PAY a nursery worker weekly, and the pastor said NO WAY.
Couple that with the Safe Environment screening and Virtus training, and people were like “yeah…NO”.

I don’t know what the answer is, but comparing Catholic nurseries to nurseries in other denoms is not a good comparison. The Mass is a Sacrament.

Can I ask what you base the bold on? Being a member of non-Catholic churches for the passed 30+ years (I’m not a member of any church now as there isn’t one for me where I live) that has been the complete opposite of the nursery. It isn’t there for FUN, it’s there for the same reason that you lay out in the Catholic environment. That, or we have two different thoughts of what the “nursery” is.

I grew up with it being the same as what you explain it to be, someplace to take young children that are having a hard time that day, so others can concentrate on the word.

I wish that the Catholic Church my wife and kids are members at had the same nursery that the church I grew up in did. Right now all I can do with our 1 year old is walk around the gathering space.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

No, I don’t think you get it. I could pay people watching my children anywhere. I was a little miffed the day I started this the mom-social opportunities that were available at protestant churches. I am desperate for socialization. I don’t have friends. I am trying, I’m going to mom groups, I’m going to parks, I’m doing it - but it would be FABULOUS to be able to socialize with other Catholic moms, and maybe experience some spiritual growth and mutual support.

My church doesn’t do coffee and donuts, maybe it’s time I find another church…

I find it offensive that you would find me wanting to meet with other catholic moms and support each other and change that to “daycare”.

And for the record, some of their adult bible study is after the first sunday mass, so no, not a bedtime issue.

My parent’s church started doing background checks when I was still a child, so no, it isn’t an issue. Both my parents were volunteers. And it isn’t that hard to get people trained, I’ve done it and kept up on my training, I wish people would stop using that as an excuse.

Again, I don’t think you understand the background between trained and the things the diocesan and the USCCB has placed on “safe environment” training. They are 2 different things, and the Catholic Church’s is very onerous. It’s different. Believe me. It’s stricter than the training/back ground check I had to volunteer at a school.

We’ve pointed you to meetup.com. We’ve pointed you to St. Greg’s pockets (again contact them).

You can be offended all you want, but that’s the truth. BTW, all of the Catholic moms things I do, involve the kids. They have nighttime events that do not, but I’m not interested so I don’t attend.

Again, if your desire is to take an hour to go to these events during and after Mass, quite frankly, your husband needs to man up and watch the kids. You’re alone with them so he can work. He can be alone with them so you can have your needs met.

Who knows, once you start going you may find that there are people like you.

If your children in public stress your husband out, then the solution is for them all to stay home together. I still don’t see any reason why you cannot keep your young kids at home with him.

 

[LuckyLexi]

I grew up with it being the same as what you explain it to be, someplace to take young children that are having a hard time that day, so others can concentrate on the word.

I wish that the Catholic Church my wife and kids are members at had the same nursery that the church I grew up in did. Right now all I can do with our 1 year old is walk around the gathering space.

This was my experience as well, and apparently my husband’s experience at catholic church with us!

 

[pianistclare]

Other churches do not have the Real Presence. Full stop. Likely only one valid Sacrament. Sacraments are important. Many of the “innovations” that young families crave are because they are overwhelmed and seeking a “fun” experience for their children, While those places might indeed be lovely and welcoming and sincere, they are not interchangeable with the Catholic Church if one is Catholic.

 

[LuckyLexi]

Have you discussed this with your pastor? Have you any ideas for beefing up the staffing of the nursery? Have you approached the Elders of the parish, seeking grannies who might enjoy rocking a baby on Sunday mornings?

No, you must have missed where I said we don’t have ANY nursery and the nursery space was converted to additional choir space so there is no longer even any space for nursery (this is what my priest told me).