Where Muhammad gets his science wrong

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what exactly is your point thomling? could you clarify please?
The point is very clear thus the Koranic statement is accurate and scientific. There is no scientific error in it.
another mistake by the Koran - procreative fluid from the woman???
again making the mistakes of the time
In the Surah 86:5, it is talking about the creation of MAN -HUMAN BEING (Arabic:INSAAN ) which includes male and female. Thus the creation of human being (man) is due to the fluids coming out both from male and female’s “between the backbone and the breast-bones”. So there is no error in this regard and the Koran is always accurate and true.
 
The point is very clear thus the Koranic statement is accurate and scientific. There is no scientific error in it.
well no the point isn’t very clear at all, and you haven’t clarified it in anyway
In the Surah 86:5, it is talking about the creation of MAN -HUMAN BEING (Arabic:INSAAN ) which includes male and female. Thus the creation of human being (man) is due to the fluids coming out both from male and female’s “between the backbone and the breast-bones”. So there is no error in this regard and the Koran is always accurate and true.
yes, sorry - saying something even three times doesn’t make it so
have you got an argument or like ham will you just keep on saying the same thing over and over again to the point of frustration?
 
well no the point isn’t very clear at all, and you haven’t clarified it in anyway

yes, sorry - saying something even three times doesn’t make it so
have you got an argument or like ham will you just keep on saying the same thing over and over again to the point of frustration?
Again, first keep Surah 86: 5 to 7 in mind and read the following very carefully.
Although different parts of the body have their own separate functions, no part can perform its function by itself but only in coordination with the other parts.
No doubt, the seminal fluid is produced by the testes from where it is emitted through a particular channel. But if the stomach, liver, lungs, heart, brain, kidneys, etc. are not performing their respective functions rightly, the system of the production of the seminal liquid and its emission cannot work by itself.
Let us understand this by an example. Urine forms in the kidney, is emptied into the bladder from where it is discharged through the outlet of the urinary tract. But by what process? If the the organs which produce blood and circulate it throughout the body are not functioning properly, can the kidney by itself separate those elements from the blood, which make up urine, and send it to the bladder? That is why the Quran does not say that the seminal fluid issues from the back-bone and the breast-bones, but has said: “It issues forth from the part of the body which is located between the two”. This does not negate the fact that the production of the seminal fluid and its emission has a mechanism which functions through particular parts of the body, but it shows that this mechanism is not independent: it performs its function in consequence of the combined work of the organism placed by Allah between the SULB (back-bone) and the TARA’IB (breast-bones).
That is why I have pointed out that the whole body is not involved in it, for even if the hands and feet are cut off, this system continues to work. However, if any one organ out of the principal organs located between the backbone and the breast-bones, is eliminated, the system cannot continue its function".
After reading the Question and the Answer, two doctors from two different places have provided some medical information which is given below:
According to modern Embryology, it is an established fact that the testes in the foetus, the glands which produce seminal fluid, are located close to the kidneys between the backbone and the breast bones, from where they gradually descend into the serotum later. This happens before birth and sometimes a little after it. But even then the source of their nerves and veins remains the same, i.e. between the backbone and the breast-bones. Even their artery shoots out from the aorta located close to the backbone and traversing the whole stomach supplies them with blood.
Thus, in fact, the testes are a part of the back, which on account of their inability to endure the high temperature of the body, have been transferred to the scrotum. Furthermore, although the seminal fluid is produced by the testes and stored in seminal vesicles, yet its emission is motivated from between the backbone and the breast-bones. On stimulation from the brain the trigger action causes seminal vesicles to contract and this causes ejaculation of the seminal fluid. Thus it will be seen that the Quranic statement confirms to modern research of medical science on the subject.
 
We Christians went through a period of that. Scientificaly we grew, but they are still in the dark ages. … but they did invent distilling :extrahappy: wine can now become brandy 🙂
What do you mean ‘we’?😉

“Long ago (in the 4th century!) one of the Church’s teachers Vasilius the Great wrote about this. He advised the Orthodox Christians neither to rely upon the scientific data in order to provide foundation for their faith in Christ, nor to try to disprove them, because “the scientists permanently disprove themselves.”
pravoslavie.ru/english/age-of-earth.htm

Secondly, in the light of modern science they’re attempting drawing a connection to the Koran.
 
The point is very clear thus the Koranic statement is accurate and scientific. There is no scientific error in it.
As I pointed out in an earlier rebuttal to Kadaveri, his attempts (post #7) to say that ‘between’ can also mean below, it can also mean above (my post #16), making the Koran indeed true, but also pointless because it would in fact be saying “Semen comes from the body”
Wowee. Even the ancient Greeks* knew that!

*Muhammed even repeats many of their errors
 
link for Thomling: Quran and semen production
I quote
Dr. William Campbell explains why this passage is incompatible with modern medical knowledge relating to the production of semen:
Here we find that Man is made from a ‘gushing fluid’ that issues from the adult father during the ‘now’ of the reproductive act, from a specific physical place ‘between the loins and the ribs.’ (other translations have backbone instead of loins)
Since the verse is speaking of the moment of adult reproduction it can’t be talking about the time of embryonic development. Moreover, since ‘sulb’ is being used in conjunction with ‘gushing fluid’, which can only be physical; and ‘tara’ib’ which is another physical word for chest or thorax or ribs, it can’t be euphemistic. Therefore, we are left with the very real problem that the semen is coming from the back or kidney area and not the testicles.
the testicles and seminal vesicles are below the level of the sacrum on transverse section so can’t be claimed to be between the ribs and spine in any possible interpretation

What about the 360 joints thomling? Very clearly wrong.
 
Again, first keep Surah 86: 5 to 7 in mind and read the following very carefully.
… and Galen believed in this ‘vital’ stuff…long before the Koran.

“Pneuma zoticon (vital spirit) in the heart controlled blood and body temperature. Natural spirit in the liver handled nutrition and metabolism.”
yotor.com/wiki/en/ga/Galen.htm

Galen was providing an updated version of Erassitratus’ theory of ‘vital spirit’ also coming from the chest.
See
pacs.unica.it/biblio/lesson2.htm

Thus Muhammed’s writings in the Koran about the spirit coming from ‘between the spine and the rib-cage’ is from Greek knowledge of science.

See also
oslermarine.com/evmodmed2.html

Thus the Koran is so general that one could indeed say that ‘whatever it is that makes a person comes from within a person’ is accurate. However IT IS NOT SCIENCE
 
Here’s an Islamic science site

It makes this outrageous claim about the Koran
“The situation is quite different in the Qur’an. The Book mentions precise mechanisms in many places and describes clearly-defined stages in reproduction, without providing a single statement marred by inaccuracy. Everything in the Qur’an is explained in simple terms which are easily understandable to man and in strict accordance with what was to be discovered much later on.”

So ‘somewhere between the ribs and the spine’ is precise. Thank God that surgeons don’t operate with such precision!

“Precise mechanisms” is rather specific a description. Let’s look at what it says for one particular “precise mechanism.”

“The Qur’an sets out by stressing the successive transformations the embryo undergoes before reaching its destination in the maternal uterus.” (Ibid.)
How does it do this?
“–sura 82, verses 6 to 8:
“O Man! Who deceives you about your Lord the Noble, Who created you and fashioned you in due proportion and gave you any form He willed.””
(Ibid.)

Now I ask any reader how does the statement *God fashioned you in proportion *relate to the destination of an embryo? Where is the uterus mentioned? It is if anything NOT precise. Where are the various stages mentioned at all?

Let’s look at another…
“Fertilization is Performed by Only a Very Small Volume of Liquid.”
The Qur’an repeats this concept eleven times using the following expression:
–sura 16, verse 4:
“(God) fashioned man from a small quantity (of sperm).” (Ibid.)

The problems here are many and varied, not the least because the site itself goes on to quibble about ‘small amount’ (recall above ‘precise mechanism’,). Further to this ‘man’ is not fashioned from sperm. The embryo has both male and female sex cells contributing to it.

What is in fact most telling is that following scientific discoveries, they do admit to tampering with Koranic teachings to make it fit with science…"Modern authors however, like the commentator of the Muntakab edited by the Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs, Cairo, have corrected this view and note here that the ‘small quantity of sperm’ is made up of various component parts. The commentator in the Muntakab does not go into detail, but in my opinion it is a very judicious observation."
(Ibid.)
Reworking of the facts!

One of the better reworking of the facts is the highly edited verse…
"Once the egg has been fertilized in the Fallopian tube it descends to lodge inside the uterus; this is called the ‘implantation of the egg’. The Qur’an names the lodging of the fertilized egg womb:
-sura 22, verse 5:
“We cause whom We[78] will to rest in the womb for an appointed term.”(Ibid.)

Not only does this not mention any fertilised egg, it simply mentions being in the womb; which was the limit of science then, because even in Christianity they knew of ‘the womb.’ But Sura 22:5 is a lot lot bigger
“O mankind! If you are in doubt about the Resurrection, then verily! We have created you (i.e. Adam) from dust, then from a Nutfah , then from a clot, then from a little lump of flesh, some formed and some unformed (miscarriage), that We may make (it) clear to you (i.e. to show you Our Power and Ability to do what We will). And We cause whom We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed term, then We bring you out as infants, then (give you growth) that you may reach your age of full strength. And among you there is he who dies (young), and among you there is he who is brought back to the miserable old age, so that he knows nothing after having known. And you see the earth barren, but when We send down water (rain) on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells and puts forth every lovely kind (of growth)”
So within one verse is a huge amount of ‘evidence’; dust, clot, lump of flesh.

In summary the precise mechanism involves very vague passages about male liquid, only. There is a recognition made that they re-work translations to fit evidence, and they have ignored a huge amount of evidence , or just edited out 9/10ths of a verse in order to make it fit.
 
Thomling,
Your arguments are not convincing for the following reasons:
  1. The verse does not talk about the embryonic state but the adult state in which it says it ‘EMITS/GUSHES FORTH from between the ribs and the backbone’. In the embryonic state it doesn’t do that.
  2. Every part of the body is supply with blood from the aorta - which is between the ribs and the backbone - so you’re basically saying that the sperm can come from any part of the body.
  3. Almost every part of the body is enervated from the spine - so it means that the sperm can come from any part of the body (except the brain).
Even your toes receive their blood and nerve supplies from the aorta and the spine - does that mean your sperm gushes out of your toes? No.
 
Thomling, it’s clear from your cutting and pasting that you don’t understand the science involved, so how can you have any sort of meaningful discussion about it?
If you did have any basic knowledge of the subject, you would realise what rubbish the following statement is:
although the seminal fluid is produced by the testes and stored in seminal vesicles
 
The talk of the number of bodily joints and the source of semen (not omitting
the sensual delights in heaven) goes to show that Islam is a materialistic
religion. Islam was founded by a self-proclaimed prophet who was educated by
heretic Christian monks who denied the divinity of Christ, which registered
well with the self-styled prophet’s ego. He was also a prince who desired to
unify an Arabian peninsula torn by civil strife by founding a monotheistic
religion that rejected the Holy Trinity, for this solemn definition promulgated
by the Church smacked of division. Islam, if anything, is a heresy that God used
to purge the Arian elements in the Eastern Catholic Church. Islam did in fact
wipe out the Arian problem for us Catholics. And Islam will probably again
be used by Christ in the future to purge an unfaithful Catholic West. :eek:
 
The talk of the number of bodily joints and the source of semen (not omitting
the sensual delights in heaven) goes to show that Islam is a materialistic
religion. Islam was founded by a self-proclaimed prophet who was educated by
heretic Christian monks who denied the divinity of Christ, which registered
well with the self-styled prophet’s ego. He was also a prince who desired to
unify an Arabian peninsula torn by civil strife by founding a monotheistic
religion that rejected the Holy Trinity, for this solemn definition promulgated
by the Church smacked of division. Islam, if anything, is a heresy that God used
to purge the Arian elements in the Eastern Catholic Church. Islam did in fact
wipe out the Arian problem for us Catholics. And Islam will probably again
be used by Christ in the future to purge an unfaithful Catholic West. :eek:
Nancy Pelosi better hide.:eek:
 
Contrary to popular belief, semen is not produced entirely in the testes.
The testes are dedicated to constantly producing millions of sperm cells, as well as a few other functions.
Mature sperm cells are moved from testes into the ampulla, where they are safely stored until ejaculation.
Seminal fluid itself is not produced directly in the testes, but in a number of different places.
First, the seminal vesicles produce a think white secretion rich in sugars, mostly fructose to fuel the sperm cells on their journey to the egg. This secretion is what composes the bulk of semen by volume (50-80%).
The prostate gland is a small donut shaped organ that also contributes to seminal fluid. It secretes an alkaline solution to combat the acidic fluids found inside a vagina, to help sperm cells in the foreign environment. This fluid accounts for roughly one third of the volume of seminal fluid.
Last to contribute to the seminal fluid is the Cowper’s (bulbourethral) glands. These small glands secrete a (mucus based) lubrication prior to ejaculation, known as precum or pre-cum. The purpose of this fluid is to provide sexual activity with a natural lubricant, of which both males and females secrete their own.
So again, the Koranic statement is accurate and scientific.
 
Forgive me, but I seem to have missed where the Qur’an “accurately and scientifically” mentions the testicles, seminal vesicles, prostate gland, or Cowper’s gland, or makes any reference to them specific enough to distinguish them from virtually any other organ in the body, and then uses them to describe the specific process resulting in the production of semen.

You have failed to understand that for a statement to be scientific, it must on some level say something specific. If by

“between the backbone and the breast bone”

the Qur’an indicates a specific location in the body where semen and all its constituent parts are in their entirety produced, then the statement is specific enough to be scientific, but false. If the Qur’an means that all fluids generated by the body in some part have some general reation to the thorassic cavity than you have a statement which is true, but not specific, and not in any way scientifically meaningful.

If only Mohammed had said “Something happens” and left it at that. That way you would have an easier time trying to twist his words to mean what you want.

You can’t have it both ways. The Qur’an is not scientific.
 
I have read your previous posts. They prove only that Islamic apologists can twist Mohammed’s vague and unscientific ruminations to fit whatever meaning they want.

Sadly, I remain convinced that the Qur’an is neither scientific nor accurate 🤷
 
You know, I think this one has got ham stumped! So we can conclude that the Koran is not inspired by God, it is the product of either Muhammad or Satan himself. Look at the effect that book has had on the world, inspiring hatred and violence - that shows who the author is - the Father of Lies, the Chief of All Deceivers, our adversary the Devil.

May our Muslim posters and lurkers turn to the Bible to truly learn about God, a God of love and mercy. A God who says that hungering for righteousness is more important than having a beard or praying in a certain posture.
Dante saw Muhammad in the second to last Level of Hell,
but he is still misleading people.
 
Contrary to popular belief, semen is not produced entirely in the testes.

The testes are dedicated to constantly producing millions of sperm cells, as well as a few other functions.

Mature sperm cells are moved from testes into the ampulla, where they are safely stored until ejaculation.

Seminal fluid itself is not produced directly in the testes, but in a number of different places.

First, the seminal vesicles produce a think white secretion rich in sugars, mostly fructose to fuel the sperm cells on their journey to the egg. This secretion is what composes the bulk of semen by volume (50-80%).

The prostate gland is a small donut shaped organ that also contributes to seminal fluid. It secretes an alkaline solution to combat the acidic fluids found inside a vagina, to help sperm cells in the foreign environment. This fluid accounts for roughly one third of the volume of seminal fluid.

Last to contribute to the seminal fluid is the Cowper’s (bulbourethral) glands. These small glands secrete a (mucus based) lubrication prior to ejaculation, known as precum or pre-cum. The purpose of this fluid is to provide sexual activity with a natural lubricant, of which both males and females secrete their own.
Unfortunately for you, none of the above are between the ribs and the backbone.

The prostate gland, the seminal vesicles and the Cowper’s glands are all in the bowl of the pelvis - they are below the level of a line drawn from the coccyx to the lowest ribs.

You have no knowledge of anatomy at all.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Male_anatomy.png/300px-

If you look at the diagram above you’d see that the ribs are nowhere in sight. It is way above everything in this diagram.
 
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