Where sin begins in same-sex physical intimacy

[Rau]

…
As far as the thread itself, the complete inability for anyone to actually reference Magisterial teaching on the issue leads me to three conclusions:

A) Same-sex romances are not inherently immoral and can be engaged in as long as they do not involve immoral physical activity or lust. These can involve anything up to light kissing for sure.

B) In addition to sex, making out is absolutely immoral when done for the sake of erotic delight, though this is true for any two unmarried people (thank you Cesar!)

C) Making out for an increase of the emotional bond with no desire for lust or erotic delight is iffy and likely needs discernment with a priest and Christ.

I don’t like your chances of getting a sufficiently considered answer from Father “randomly selected” parish priest! Getting one’s head around the idea of making out with someone of the same sex, with no intent or expectation of erotic delight, and with no risk of crossing the line (wherever that exactly is) may be challenging for someone just meeting you! It may take a bit of investigation to identify who is qualified to provide well-reasoned and well-informed advice.

 

[SMGS127]

I don’t like your chances of getting a sufficiently considered answer from Father “randomly selected” parish priest! Getting one’s head around the idea of making out with someone of the same sex, with no intent or expectation of erotic delight, and with no risk of crossing the line (wherever that exactly is) may be challenging for someone just meeting you! It may take a bit of investigation to identify who is qualified to provide well-reasoned and well-informed advice.

Who would you suggest if not a priest?

Also, while I understand and agree with the notion that women can’t be priests, let me tell you that this is yet another example that frustrates me about the male-only priesthood. They are so unable to understand the female experience, let alone a lesbian experience, that how do you possibly even discuss issues specific to women/lesbians? It would be like a guy asking me for advice on what to do about a compulsive habit of masturbation; I don’t understand the experience so how could I possibly help him?

 

[Rau]

Who would you suggest if not a priest?

Also, while I understand and agree with the notion that women can’t be priests, let me tell you that this is yet another example that frustrates me about the male-only priesthood. They are so unable to understand the female experience, let alone a lesbian experience, that how do you possibly even discuss issues specific to women/lesbians? It would be like a guy asking me for advice on what to do about a compulsive habit of masturbation; I don’t understand the experience so how could I possibly help him?

I didn’t intend to dissuade you from speaking with a priest. I’m just suggesting that not all priests will have the knowledge and expertise in this challenging area to provide what you, a deeply thoughtful, insightful and intelligent person, are looking for. Hence, you may need to seek out that expertise, not just rock up at the presbytery door.

There are female theologians of course.

[To your other point, I’m led to believe that some women struggle with masturbation actually. Very few men can honestly claim to have never succumbed, but I believe quite a few women can.]

 

[dedo]

The problem for me dedo is not his intentions at all, for I could care less what they are. His writing style on the thread is abusive, posting multiple times in a row repeatedly to try to drown out actual discussion, often writing nothing of substance but merely posting a link to an earlier post of his, for example. He also refused to source any of his claims, besides an avowed NARTH supporter eek who just happens to be a CAF apologist, arguing that he was a theologian and didn’t need to. He would not address any of the responses to him, instead repeating himself over and over and over again (even going so far, again, as to link to previous posts of his repeatedly). He would not post any Magisterial references or even Doctoral references, instead arguing that it was a position that needed no Magisterial evidence. He would not discuss why the Church did not discuss it when She was so keen to discuss homosexuality, contraception, and abortion, despite lower prevalences of abortion/homosexuality in the modern age than romantic friendships in the Western world for the first 1900 years. Eventually I got tired of dealing with someone who would not defend their posts or respond to others, and for the first time ever, I asked someone to leave my thread.

As far as the thread itself, the complete inability for anyone to actually reference Magisterial teaching on the issue leads me to three conclusions:

A) Same-sex romances are not inherently immoral and can be engaged in as long as they do not involve immoral physical activity or lust. These can involve anything up to light kissing for sure.

B) In addition to sex, making out is absolutely immoral when done for the sake of erotic delight, though this is true for any two unmarried people (thank you Cesar!)

C) Making out for an increase of the emotional bond with no desire for lust or erotic delight is iffy and likely needs discernment with a priest and Christ.

SMGS127:

In regards to your original question and the answer you are approaching: it is way out of my league. So I agree with your thoughts on talking to a priest. My only suggestion is that to either talk to a priest familiar with gay / lesbian issues, or be willing to talk to more than one priest.

When I was younger, my wife and I were trying to sort out getting our marriage blessed since we were originally married by a Baptist minister. We first tried to deal with a priest that was a little insensitive and did not connect with my wife. Then we moved and talked to a priest who was fantastic, and took care of the problem with ease.

In regards to the issue that sparked my original post: it is a good idea to for each of us to periodically reflect on our actions, and when someone gives us feedback, we should consider it – especially if we are upsetting someone.

The only other thing I have to offer is that I am trying to sort out a couple things in my own life as well. My hope is that by getting back to basics, in spending time with God and performing even simple acts of charity, then clarity will be easier to obtain.

I applaud your efforts to search for a moral answer to a difficult problem.

 

[Rin]

Who would you suggest if not a priest?

Also, while I understand and agree with the notion that women can’t be priests, let me tell you that this is yet another example that frustrates me about the male-only priesthood. They are so unable to understand the female experience, let alone a lesbian experience, that how do you possibly even discuss issues specific to women/lesbians? It would be like a guy asking me for advice on what to do about a compulsive habit of masturbation; I don’t understand the experience so how could I possibly help him?

There are nuns who are spiritual directors too - perhaps for this exact reason. Not that only women go to them, of course.