Where to start with the Carmelites?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lazerlike42
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Or I’m here. Well not for Holy Week, but I’m registered here…
1234 said:
I believe that this is the group which Brendan1104 on phatmass has visited and knows so much about.

You might visit phatmass and find his posts, or search under “Carmelite Wyoming” to find more info.

You may have to sign up on phatmass to do all of this or to PM him, if you haven’t joined phat already.
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Then also of course the wholly contemplative communities

decorcarmeli.com/Hermits.htm (O.Carm)
carmelitehermits.org/ (O.Carm)
carmelitesaustinmn.com/ (O.Carm)
carmelitemonks.org/ (discalced charism, but not affiliated with OCD)

and there’s also an O.Carm Carmelite Hermit community in PA (carmelites.com/hermitage.htm) but I don’t know very much about them. also I don’t know very much about the Austin, MN community, but they look good from their site. i found an ad for them in the National Catholic Register.

Then finally, I feel like I can’t not mention Fr. Robert Altier, OCDS a diocesan priest for St. Paul/Minneapolis. He’s an awesome priest!! desertvoice.org
 
Lazerlike42 said:
I understand that “loopiness” can be found anywhere. I was refering to the possibility that a particular group, rather than individuals, had this problem. In other words, if there are particular provinces, groups, etc. of Carmelites which are better to avoid, then I would like to know that. 🙂
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Look for Carmlite communities that use the 1990 constitutions, rather than the 1991 constitutions. From what I understand the 1990 constitutions are more orthodox;

More at this link:
phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=58540

Blessings,

-Davide
 
Rising_Suns said:
Look for Carmlite communities that use the 1990 constitutions, rather than the 1991 constitutions. From what I understand the 1990 constitutions are more orthodox;

More at this link:
phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=58540

Blessings,

-Davide
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It is important to note that the issue of the 1991/1990 Constitutions only applies to the OCD Nuns. The O.Carm. Nuns and both the OCD and O.Carm. Friars do not use those.
 
Rising_Suns said:
Look for Carmlite communities that use the 1990 constitutions, rather than the 1991 constitutions. From what I understand the 1990 constitutions are more orthodox;

More at this link:
phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=58540

Blessings,

-Davide
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As Br. David said, the 1990/1991 Constitutions only apply to Discalced Carmelite nuns. The O.Carm nuns and the O.Carm & OCD friars do not use them.

But I just wanted to add that both the 1990 and the 1991 Constitutions are orthodox. They were both approved by Pope John Paul II. The 1990 Constitution may be more traditional, but both are good and approved by the Church for use.

In the St. Joseph Association in the U.S. there are both Carmels that follow the 1990 and 1991 Constitutions. Those who follow the 1990 in that association are considered some of the most traditional in the U.S. Still though, if the Carmels that followed the 1991 were not orthodox, then would those other Carmels be associated with them? No, I don’t believe so. Every Carmel has it’s own spirit and when it comes to orthodoxy it is the sisters who are orthodox or not (are they faithful to all the Church teaches?). It does not have to do with the Constitutions. Both 1990 and 1991 are approved by the Church and have been seen by the Church to be… orthodox - in line with what the Church teaches.

Also, just wanted to say there are some very traditional Carmels that do follow the 1991 Constitutions. So, while the 1990 Constitution may be more traditional, that doesn’t mean that those Carmels that follow the 1991 Constitution are not traditional - a good number are considered to be considerably traditional.
 
Yes, they are definitely both orthodox. A better way to say it would be that the 1990 Constitutions in themselves are more traditional than the 1991 Constitutions, in that they are the updated original 1581 Constitutions of St. Teresa. But regarding the individual Carmels that follow them, as daughterofMary said, several of the Carmels following the 1991s are just as traditional as those following the 1990s, like those in the St. Joseph Association.

But again, regarding the Constitutions themselves, the 1990s are more traditional, but they are both fully orthodox.
 
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why the O Carms. did not adopt the reforms of Saint Teresa of Avila and Saint John of the cross? (if the intent of their reform was a return to the original sources, does this not coalesce with the intent of the O Carms.?)
 
Rising_Suns said:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why the O Carms. did not adopt the reforms of Saint Teresa of Avila and Saint John of the cross? (if the intent of their reform was a return to the original sources, does this not coalesce with the intent of the O Carms.?)
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Perhaps Br. David, who is an O.Carm, could answer this?
 
daughterofmary said:
From what I understand from a friend of mine who knows much more about this then I do, is that the books for the Office in the Carmelite Rite are very very rare. My friend said very occasionally they are offered on ebay and when they are they sell for hundreds and hundreds of dollars. It has me wondering where the OCD nuns and the Carmelite monks are getting their books. 🤷 It was suggested to me though that if I was interested in that particular OCD community that I should just start praying the Office in Latin in the Roman Rite. Besides, Mother said their structure was the same in many ways. I suppose one could contact the monks and ask them.
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There is a Carmelite Rite Breviary Latin 4 vols 1938 set being sold on ebay now here. Thought I would post for those who were interested in it. Looks like a lot of people want it. There is about 3 days left on it.
 
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