Ralph,Nice figure arrangement Marsha, but I am talking about the RCC, not about the world in general. With your statement you are trying to protect the RCC. You will have to agree that the RCC, or at least the Vatican does have a lot of treasure, weither it is in currency or some other asset. I was also questioning the large number of people attached to the Vatican, and what is their purpose. I will agree that the RCC in certain areas do not have too much money , as they are closing down, I believe this is from lack of attendance, which means a lack of financial income. Ralph
Ralphy-I see tangible benefits in the RCC. Take a look at the Vatican, how much wealth do you see there in their jewels, paintings, artifacts, garments, upkeep, and a vast number of people to support, not including the staff to support them. I cannot imagine the cost of keeping that place going, and for what. Do you see anything in the Bible that shows such a buildup of people and wealth, on the contrary, the Bible in no way encourages such a way of living. I have been to Rome and have seen some of these things. Not much sign of poverty there, and all paid for by people who have very little, but feel an “obligation” to support the hierarchy, thinking that this will help them get to heaven. This is a sad situation. Ralph
More mindless nonsense…You mentioned nothing about the hierarchy, why is there so many, and what if any is their purpose. God said that we should not build up treasures on earth, they are not worth a thing. Ralph
Well said.Ralphy-
Sometimes your unthinking prejudice is truly amazing…
The Church needs buildings in which to conduct its meetings and to run its day to day affairs. Protestants also have large churches (the National Cathedral (Episcopal) in Washington, DC is the sixth or seventh largest Church in the world) and Robert Schuller’s Crystal Cathedral in CA is nothing to sneeze at, either. Bob Jones University has a very large art collection. Why don’t you guys sell all your “stuff” as an example for us?
The fact is that the Catholic Church maintains these buildings in the same way that the US Government maintains national parks, monuments, and historic buildings. Should the government sell all of its land and property to pay off the national debt? Or is there some advantage in maintaining these treasures so that everyone can enjoy them? Similarly, the Church holds its property, art, libraries and archives as treasures open to all.
Sadly, there is little cash flow generated from these things relative to the cost of upkeep, so the Vatican routinely needs to request additional money just to break-even on an annual basis. This annual collection is called “Peter’s Pence.”
Finally, are you envious that people have donated their time and money to glorify God through works of art and fine architecture? Does the Church have the right to take what has been donated to God in past centuries and put it all on the auction block without regard for what the original donors desired?
Every time I think there can’t be another Scripture verse Ralph hasn’t twisted, or that he can’t be more ridiculous, I check this thread and am proved wrong.More mindless nonsense…
Ralphy, how many Catholic priests are there worldwide? About 400,000.
How many Catholics do they serve? About 1 billion.
Do the math…that’s 1 priest for every 2,500 Catholics…quite a work-load, don’t you think?
As for their purpose, same as your pastor and more.
This was never my implication, paul. I know this is probably really silly to mention, but it’s one of my greatest pet peeves. I don’t like when people say I believe stuff that I definitely do not believe. I’m sure all Catholics can relate to this, don’t you all get tired of people telling us what we believe like ralphy, here. It’s especially bad because they either are completely wrong, or they say it in a way to make it wound completely ridiculous, but usually the former.perhaps this thread has reached the end of its usefulness. We have debunked the **original posters impliction that Peter never left Jerusalem **in so many ways. We have now devolved into a forum for Ralph to complain about the Churches material goods.
you are right. You, as the original poster didn’t imply that Peter wasn’t buried in Rome. It was the 50 year old article you brought in that made that suggestion. You were simply trying to get ammunition to debunk it, which I think you did. My point was, that the original reason for the thread has been completed. Sorry to falsely accuse you. I should have been more careful in my wording.This was never my implication, paul. I know this is probably really silly to mention, but it’s one of my greatest pet peeves. I don’t like when people say I believe stuff that I definitely do not believe. I’m sure all Catholics can relate to this, don’t you all get tired of people telling us what we believe like ralphy, here. It’s especially bad because they either are completely wrong, or they say it in a way to make it wound completely ridiculous, but usually the former.
No problem, I knew it was silly to point that little detail out, but I just wanted to let everyone know that I wasn’t advocating the article.you are right. You, as the original poster didn’t imply that Peter wasn’t buried in Rome. It was the 50 year old article you brought in that made that suggestion. You were simply trying to get ammunition to debunk it, which I think you did. My point was, that the original reason for the thread has been completed. Sorry to falsely accuse you. I should have been more careful in my wording.
I was looking at the poster in you thread. I believe they are priests that are shown there, and they are to protect the RCC from false doctrine,etc. My question to you is, who is going to protect the people from the so called “protectors”. In my area here, in the last few years there were at least ten priest taken to court and charged with being pedifiles. These men were up in age, and they were finally caught. I say finally, because these men committed these offenses a few years back but were not disciplined by the hierarchy, in fact they were shifted to another “parish” and allowed to serve there, I believe there is another word for this, it is called “coverup”. I blame this situation on the lack of the RCC to follow scripture regarding these priests. In 1 Tim 4:1-3, it talks about this situation. What a terrible life for these kids to go through because the word of God was not followed. Not far from where I live here, there is an RC parish, who at the moment has to muster up 13.5 million dollars to pay a fine for abuse done over the years to people of different ages. The parishioners are asked to pay this cost. I will guess that there are about 3000 people who will be paying for this problem. As the saying goes, “be sure your sins will find you out”. Sounds like a lousy track record to me. Who will protect you from the “protectors”. RalphHaving read all the posts (okay, I skimmed a few of the lengthier ones) I just have this to add.
When Jesus changed Simon’s name to Peter and said: “And on this rock I will build My Church” guess what happened?
His Church the main one in Rome and therefore the world, is literally built on top of the bones of Peter. I wonder if Jesus had a slight twinkle in Hie eye as He spoke those words.
Ralphy, that the Church had pediophile priests is certainly a scandal and has now been dealt with vigorously. However, the actions of a small percentage of priests (statistically lower than that of the population at large) while sad, does not negate the work of the rest. Do you ask the same questions of your local school board, because the data shows the incidence of pediophiles is higher among teachers than priests.I was looking at the poster in you thread. I believe they are priests that are shown there, and they are to protect the RCC from false doctrine,etc. My question to you is, who is going to protect the people from the so called “protectors”. In my area here, in the last few years there were at least ten priest taken to court and charged with being pedifiles. These men were up in age, and they were finally caught. I say finally, because these men committed these offenses a few years back but were not disciplined by the hierarchy, in fact they were shifted to another “parish” and allowed to serve there, I believe there is another word for this, it is called “coverup”. I blame this situation on the lack of the RCC to follow scripture regarding these priests. In 1 Tim 4:1-3, it talks about this situation. What a terrible life for these kids to go through because the word of God was not followed. Not far from where I live here, there is an RC parish, who at the moment has to muster up 13.5 million dollars to pay a fine for abuse done over the years to people of different ages. The parishioners are asked to pay this cost. I will guess that there are about 3000 people who will be paying for this problem. As the saying goes, “be sure your sins will find you out”. Sounds like a lousy track record to me. Who will protect you from the “protectors”. Ralph
You did not address the scripture in 1 Tim 4:1-3 regarding “forbidding to marry”, this I believe to be the root cause of pedifile priests. RalphRalphy, that the Church had pediophile priests is certainly a scandal and has now been dealt with vigorously. However, the actions of a small percentage of priests (statistically lower than that of the population at large) while sad, does not negate the work of the rest. Do you ask the same questions of your local school board, because the data shows the incidence of pediophiles is higher among teachers than priests.
No, the pediophile priests were Gay. They would not have benefited from being married.You did not address the scripture in 1 Tim 4:1-3 regarding “forbidding to marry”, this I believe to be the root cause of pedifile priests. Ralph
Married and unmarried **lay **men and women are the major abusers of children. An example in one country with over 2000 abuse cases (of all types) only 86 were in religious institutions. That means your unmarried religious are 96% safer than your average married and unmarried man and woman. Of all sectors of the community the Catholic religous is the safest place to be, statistically speaking that is.You did not address the scripture in 1 Tim 4:1-3 regarding “forbidding to marry”, this I believe to be the root cause of pedifile priests. Ralph
Yes, that’s quite right in general. About 80%, anyway. As well as being people who in general entered the clergy with the express intent of corrupting it.No, the pediophile priests were Gay. They would not have benefited from being married.
THen you should investigate the number of married pedephiles, and you would discover that this is not true.You did not address the scripture in 1 Tim 4:1-3 regarding “forbidding to marry”, this I believe to be the root cause of pedifile priests. Ralph