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Tomster
Guest
St. Paul talks about running the race to completion. Have you crossed the finish line?
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paul_c
Guest
Ralph, don’t you get it? John wrote his epistle to clarify this for you. It is not enough to simply believe. If you say you believe but don’t act on those beliefs by following the commandments, you are a liar.
James reiterates this, " Faith without works are dead" (James 2)
And Paul states that if you have Faith enough to move mountains, but do not have love, you are nothing (1Corinthians 13)
and Jesus himself, when asked what it takes to gain eternal life, responded " follow the commandments" (Matthew 19)
I know you would like to say Faith is all that is required, but you are lying to yourself. Follow Scripture to the light that is Christ> The Catholic Church teaches the truth:, You must love God and each other to go to heaven. Faith alone is insufficient. As James states, " Even the Demons believe that Jesus is Lord."
Your response to the truth is extremely weak. Isn’t it about time to follow the actual truth instead of what you would like the truth to be?
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Tomster
Guest
I agree! His response is very weak. What we have to remember is that Fundamentalists hold the Bible as absolute, a reality in itself whose meaning is clear and evident. It presupposes that the Word can immediately be grasped in meaning by all.
Fundamentalism is not a kind of interpretation but a denial of the need and legitimacy of interpretation. Unwittingly, however, the fundamentalist does interpret. Such is the nature of reading and communication. Without realizing it, the fundamentalist equates the Biblical Word with his or her interpretation of it and makes an absolute of that interpretation as the one for all who hear the Word.
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ralphy
Guest
There are no more sacrifices for sin. You really should take a look at Heb 9:24-28 and Heb 10:12-18, surely this will convince you on this subject. As far as “priests” are concerned, they were required in the old testament to offer scrifices, but they are no longer required as per the scripture found in Hebrews. I believe that the RCC brought priests into the RC religion to complete the picture of “sacrificing”, as they could not fill this “senario” without them. They also borrow some other things from the old testament, such as “tabernacle”. My friend, we are under a NEW covenant, take a close look at it. Ralph
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Tomster
Guest
Remove the Fundamentalist template from your Bible and review the following:
Acts 20:28
Luke 22:19
John 20:22
Acts 6:6
Acts 13:3
Acts 14:22
1 Timothy 4:14
2 Timothy 1:6
Titus 1:5
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paul_c
Guest
Well, in reality, they don’t hold the Bible as absolute, only the parts of it that agree with their own traditions For instance, I showed Ralphy above where the Scriptures disagree with his interpretation. He has chosen to ignore that and reiterate his own Bible tract. This is much to his detriment and I think is easily understood by even the most causal unbiased observer
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paul_c
Guest
It would be helpful in the future to actually list the text instead of just the references. It would allow the lazy to be enlightened, not just the diligent.
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Tomster
Guest
They have TRADITIONS!?!
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Tomster
Guest
I would have but it’s still early for me. :coffeeread:
Besides, it will give Ralphy a chance to his homework.
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paul_c
Guest
No, based on his responses to us, Ralph doesn’t even read what we post, let alone look things up. This is less about Ralph and more for the lurkers who are judging between him and us.
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paul_c
Guest
Well you described it as his Fundamentalist template. While they emphatically deny that they have traditions, they clearly have a way of looking at things. Unlike the Catholic Traditions that have the Apostles as their base with Jesus as the source of their authority, the Fundamentalist have men like Martin Luther as their base of their traditions, whose sole authority is their own opinions.They have TRADITIONS!?!
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Tomster
Guest
“We are under a NEW covenant, take a close look at it.”
O.K!
Holy Orders is the sacrament by which priests of the New Covenant are appointed. Christ, by right of nature and by divine vocation, is the High Priest of the New Testament. But, because He was to withdraw His visible presence and wanted to render visible and perpetual (as human nature requires) the application of His saving work, from the first days of His public life Jesus selected disciples whom He lovingly trained. To crown, as it were, this divine training, He instituted the sacrifice of the Mass and, as by a supernatural investiture expressed in the words: “Do this in commemoration of Me” (Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 11:24), He transmitted to the Apostles the priestly power or renewing the unbloody offering in perpetual commemoration of the bloody immolation of Calvary, thereby constituting them representatives of men to God. On the day of the Resurrection, and on that of the Ascension, He conferred on them the power of remitting sins (John 20:21-23) and the threefold power of teaching, ministry, and government (Matthew 28:19-20), thus establishing them representatives of God with men.
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mchale
Guest
Lets settle one thing here, the modern word priest, is actually derived from the greek work prebyter which is often translated as elder in the New Testament. It is clear from the New Testament that the Apostles apointed prebyters at the churches they established. It is unfortunate that the modern word priest is used not just for prebyters but also for priests of the Old Testament (and pagan priests as well).
That being said, the sacrifice of the Mass is not a sacrifice in the same sense that a sacrifice in the Temple was. When Jesus died on the Cross he offered himself once, perfectly for the forgiveness of all of our sins. The Eucharist is not a new sacrifice, rather it is a continued participation in the perfect sacrifice of Jesus. This sacrifice is renewed at the Mass not for God’s sake but for ours, that we may personally partake in it and be strengthened in our faith.
–
Bill
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ralphy
Guest
You have not responded to part of my thread, that there are no more sacrifices for sin. I can understand why you cannot reply, it is because you would have to agree with the scripture I asked you to read. I hope that you are not using the scriptures that you quoted, to try and tell me that there are “priests” that come out of the laying on of hands of theses men. If you are, then you are really grasping for straws. These are men who have been sent out to witness for Christ. Why don’t you just accept the fact that there are NO priests in the new testament. There is no more sacrifice needed, therefore, no more “priests”, Jesus completed the final scarifice at Calvary, I am so glad He did. I know it shoots holes in the belief of the RCC, but it is scripturaly true. Ralph
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paul_c
Guest
In the new testament, Priests administer the sacraments:
Baptism, the eucharist, reconciliation, matrimony, annointing of the sick.
Bishops administer confirmation and holy orders.
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Mc_Sweeney
Guest
Ralph,
‘An empty kettle makes much noise’.
Wise up and listen to what you are being told.
God bless.
M
Mc_Sweeney
Guest
Well said Brother.
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Tomster
Guest
Ralphy, Ralphy, Ralphy! We give you books. We give you pencils . . . .
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ralphy
Guest
Priests came into being by RCC doctrine, and they are not found in the new testament. Ralph
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paul_c
Guest
Thats a ridiculous statement to make. Read 1Timothy and 2Timothy and Titus. They are all about church structure. They were written 2000 years ago in Greek, so they don’t use the same nomenclature, but the positions are essentially the same.
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