Where were the Protestants before the 1500's?

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Not contrary, that is that the Lord preferred to be the “invisible” yet ever present and performing leader of His people, as was before Saul. I did say the Lord made lemonade out of a bad decision by Israel, hence King of Kings for He fullfilled what David and all the other kings could not. So nothing contrary.
Absolutely contrary.
It’s not the Democracy of God, nor the Republic of God. It’s the Kingdom of God.

Is Jesus a King?

Is Jesus a King in the Royal Line of David?

Was the Davidic Kingdom a precursor to the Kingdom of God?

What was the position of the Mother of the King in the Davidic Kingdom?

Here’s a good, short study:
QUEEN MOTHER OF THE NEW DAVIDIC KINGDOM
You are totally right, that we shouldn’t use guilt by association (like they baked cookies too). That does not, however, makes us abdicate our responsibility to sift out the good from the bad, and make sure no leaven is found in our final cookie dough.
Right. The Church has done that.
 
“They** abstain** from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes”

-Ignatius of Antioch

Try again.
You mean show the rest of the quote , the fuller context ? So consubstantialists , and spiritual real presence, and symbolic communion folk don’t pray ? They also don’t believe in the fleshly suffering and resurrection of Jesus Christ ?
 
The whole thing is absurd to me. You’re telling me it’s not official but it’s OK to use anyway.
The nuns always taught us the importance of the imprimatur. If it doesn’t have it then don’t use it. That goes for books, bibles or any other teaching tools.
As a reference, yes. There is really no need this day and age, since we have the Catechism of the Catholic Church. If I were born during the times of the Baltimore Catechism, I wouldn’t have used it much, given I could use the official Roman Catechism. The Baltimore Catechism was an attempt at an ‘acculturation’ for American Catholics during that time.
 
Let’s say the BC never existed. Limbo was still taught by oral tradition - as a doctrine, not a speculation.
Again, no. It was not. This is untrue and a distortion.

The Church has always said it was a speculation.

If some priest or nun told you different, well, they can be wrong. They are human.
The Church is human and divine, and protected by God from teaching as true a doctrine which is false.
 
You mean show the rest of the quote , the fuller context ? So consubstantialists , and spiritual real presence, and symbolic communion folk don’t pray ?
There is no ‘fuller context’ in the Letter of Smyrnaeans, which is the letter of the verse I quoted for you. That is all he wrote about Docetism in the letter, but still absolute nonetheless. Still trusting the German bishop over the apostle, I suppose?
 
Let’s say the BC never existed. Limbo was still taught by oral tradition - as a doctrine, not a speculation.
It has recently dawned upon me that you do not know what ‘doctrine’ actually is.

It seems like you still have no proof of the Church teaching the theory of Limbo being doctrine, nor of your statement that Limbo was taught by oral tradition.
 
You mean show the rest of the quote , the fuller context ? So consubstantialists , and spiritual real presence, and symbolic communion folk don’t pray ? They also don’t believe in the fleshly suffering and resurrection of Jesus Christ ?
They may or may not do any or all of those things. Who knows?

What they are NOT doing is receiving the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus in the Eucharist because they cannot consecrate the elements due to deficiencies in the ordinations of their priests.
 
That angel and the holy spirit were with me from the womb. They know everything about me. If they thought I was rude they would have told me by now.
Bible verse for this (in bold), please!
 
This at least serves as a good illustration of what I’m saying (though the thread’s gone a little wild, as always. lol 😊)
Is Jesus a King?

Is Jesus a King in the Royal Line of David?
If the Marian dogmas are about Jesus, then I should be able to make my confessions and statements about Him since there is no other name by which I must be saved. So, I can surely call Jesus “King of Kings and Lord of Lords” and I can say that He is indeed descended from David both through His mother Mary and His legal father Joseph, and seated at the right hand of God the Father. He’s the only one to fit the bill and is truly the Messiah. I can say and confess and agree with all of that about Jesus, yet it isn’t enough to allow me entrance to the RCC, along with that, I have to believe and confess direct statements about a different human, and a different name, “Mary.”

You could say, “then why don’t you agree with Mary’s position?” But, it isn’t even about her position or titles, and if it is true or not, it’s about if I have to be saved via any name other than Jesus’. And if the RCC says I have to be a member of the RCC to be saved, and to be a member I have to confess about Mary, then how many names do I have to be saved under?
 
If the Marian dogmas are about Jesus, then I should be able to make my confessions and statements about Him since there is no other name by which I must be saved. So, I can surely call Jesus “King of Kings and Lord of Lords” and I can say that He is indeed descended from David both through His mother Mary and His legal father Joseph, and seated at the right hand of God the Father. He’s the only one to fit the bill and is truly the Messiah. I can say and confess and agree with all of that about Jesus, yet it isn’t enough to allow me entrance to the RCC, along with that, I have to believe and confess direct statements about a different human, and a different name, “Mary.”

You could say, “then why don’t you agree with Mary’s position?” But, it isn’t even about her position or titles, and if it is true or not, it’s about if I have to be saved via any name other than Jesus’. And if the RCC says I have to be a member of the RCC to be saved, and to be a member I have to confess about Mary, then how many names do I have to be saved under?
Yes, we confess Jesus. Period.

However, among the things that we know to be true about our Lord and Savior are that A) He left a royal steward to watch over the kingdom in His absence (we call him the pope), and that B) His mother, Mary, is the Queen of Heaven.

You may confess your sins directly to Jesus; however, Jesus established the sacrament of Reconciliation (confession) as the normative means of being reconciled with God and His Church. This was foreshadowed in the OT (and the new) when people went to the priests who offered sacrifices for them.

Now, since these things about Jesus are known to be true, then yes, you must confess them in order to be in full communion with His Church which also confesses all it knows to be true about Him.
 
No questions, just a plea for simplification. What must I do to be saved? Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.
We Catholics look at the Word of God in its entirety. Not just snippets.

Catholics believe what the Bible says about how we are saved:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By eating his flesh and drinking his blood (Jn 6)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By his Cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)
 
I believe it has been explained to you that limbo was not a formally defined doctrine or dogma but a theological speculation. As such, it was always worthy of belief and yet subject to change.

Jimmy Akin cover this topic well here: jimmyakin.com/2007/04/limbo_document_.html

You’re not going to get a lot of mileage out of this. 😉
Thanks. I read the whole thing, including the comments by other readers. Take a look.
I know the next comment will be “those are uninformed Catholics.” I post their comments to show what they were taught, not what the official church teaching was at that time.

Dan Hunter April 23, 2007 at 7:20 am
“So Was St Augustine a bumbling idiot to say that unbaptised infants go to limbo?
What other dunder-headed declarations did he make?
If he,the greatest Father of the Church was wrong about this,what else was he wrong about?
Until the Holy Father pronounces The Limbo of the Infants non-existant,from the Chair of Peter,we are not obliged to believe that what has been taught for over one thousand years by Popes and Fathers is no longer true.
God bless you.”

Jordan Potter April 23, 2007 at 8:01 am
"The teaching on Limbo was universally accepted as true in the Catholic Church for many centuries, and only began to fall out of favor last century. As late as the 1950s, the Holy Office condemned the proposition that all unbaptised babies go to heaven. So, while it may not be a teaching of the infallible magisterium, it’s wrong to downplay it as “nothing more than a popular theological speculation.” Until last century, just about the only doubt Catholics had about Limbo was whether or not the souls there suffered pain, or rather existed in a state of natural happiness."

Heartland Catholic April 23, 2007 at 8:17 am
Contrary to what anyone else says on the topic, the Catholic Church has NOT changed it’s teaching on Limbo. The official position is as it has always been: limbo exists and to deny it is to adhere to heresy. The paper issued on Friday by the International Theological Commission is has absolutely no bearing on Church teaching because (1) the commission itself is only an advisory panel with no official teaching office in the Catholic Church, and (2) Church teaching on limbo is a doctrinal fact which has been infallibly declared on many occasions throughout history. Please allow me to refer you to a discussion on the topic by a Catholic priest who makes numerous quotes of historical Church teaching affirming the existence and reality of limbo:
audiosancto.com/audio/20070422_Sermon_GoodShepherdSunday_OnLimbo.mp3
 
I really don’t understand what you’re getting at. Why do you keep telling me that?
Because I just want to keep pointing out to you how many traditions of men you’ve been duped into believing.
 
Thanks. I read the whole thing, including the comments by other readers. Take a look.

Dan Hunter April 23, 2007 at 7:20 am
“So Was St Augustine a bumbling idiot to say that unbaptised infants go to limbo?
What other dunder-headed declarations did he make?
If he,the greatest Father of the Church was wrong about this,what else was he wrong about?
Until the Holy Father pronounces The Limbo of the Infants non-existant,from the Chair of Peter,we are not obliged to believe that what has been taught for over one thousand years by Popes and Fathers is no longer true.
God bless you.”
Dan Hunter was wrong. Augustine wrote:

“It may therefore be correctly affirmed, that such infants as quit the body without being baptized will be involved in the mildest condemnation of all. That person, therefore, greatly deceives both himself and others, who teaches that they will not be involved in condemnation; whereas the apostle says: ‘Judgment from one offence to condemnation’ (Romans 5:16), and again a little after: ‘By the offence of one upon all persons to condemnation’ (Romans 5:18).”(On Merit and the Forgiveness of Sins, and the Baptism of Infants (Book I, Chapter 21) newadvent.org/fathers/15011.htm)

Here’s a bit more:

Several of the early Church Fathers addressed this issue. St. Gregory Nazianzen (d. 389) posited, “It will happen, I believe, …that those last mentioned [infants dying without baptism] will neither be admitted by the just judge to the glory of Heaven nor condemned to suffer punishment, since though unsealed [by baptism], they are not wicked. …For from that fact that one does not merit punishment it does not follow that he is worthy of being honored, any more that it follows that one who is not worthy of a certain honor deserve on that account to be punished” (Orations, XL, 23). Tertullian (d. 250) and St. Ambrose (d. 397) agreed that only those souls culpable of unrepented mortal sin would be damned to Hell. Given this line of thought, the idea of some intermediary place or limbo existed for these souls.

On the other hand, St. Augustine (d. 430) denied any notion of such an intermediary place or limbo. He believed that unbaptized children would be sent neither to Hell since they did not merit Heaven due to original sin nor to Purgatory since that period of purification eventually leads to Heaven. However, he conceded that their punishment would be the mildest of all (De peccatorum meritis, I, xxi).

Dissatisfied with St. Augustine’s harsh teaching, the Scholastics of the Middle Ages, including St. Anselm (d. 1099), Abelard, and Peter Lombard, revisited the issue. St. Thomas Aquinas (d. 1274) laid the foundation for the “limbo” explanation. He emphasized that original sin was a sin of nature inherited from our parents rather than a sin freely committed. Since Hell was the place of eternal punishment for unrepentant mortal sinners who had rejected God and since the unbaptized could not enter Heaven, those unbaptized infants should be in another place, perhaps in a place and state of limbo. While he also believed that the loss of Heaven and the Beatific Vision was a far greater punishment than any sensible torments of Hell, Aquinas added that these souls do not have the knowledge of what they have missed. Essentially, Aquinas leaves them in a state of ignorant bliss. In all, Aquinas" theological speculation was regarded as the best explanation for this problem.

catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0145.html
 
Thanks. I read the whole thing, including the comments by other readers. Take a look.

Dan Hunter April 23, 2007 at 7:20 am
“So Was St Augustine a bumbling idiot to say that unbaptised infants go to limbo?
What other dunder-headed declarations did he make?
If he,the greatest Father of the Church was wrong about this,what else was he wrong about?
Until the Holy Father pronounces The Limbo of the Infants non-existant,from the Chair of Peter,we are not obliged to believe that what has been taught for over one thousand years by Popes and Fathers is no longer true.
God bless you.”
Martin Luther disliked Jews; therefore, you are anti-Semitic.
 
Yes, we confess Jesus. Period.
No, literally you don’t (we all confess a lot of things). And that’s not even the issue; it’s if there is only one name under Heaven by which we must be saved paired with the teaching that one has to be a member of the RCC for salvation.
Now, since these things about Jesus are known to be true, then yes, you must confess them in order to be in full communion with His Church which also confesses all it knows to be true about Him.
The RCC has now got to the point where you aren’t just confessing things that are true for Him, but you must confess things that are true for others, even to the point of having their own dogmas that give them titles, not just Jesus. And again, we can agree all day long on the Saviour; on Jesus Himself, and that apparently isn’t good enough. Rightly or wrongly that raises concerns, as well as hurdles, even for the sincere seeker.
 
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