Where were the Protestants before the 1500's?

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Dalphon said:
Because my point is they didn’t mention Mary every time they preached the gospel. I can include the texts about Mary and still say they didn’t speak about Mary every time.
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Can you give a text where St. Paul mentions the Virgin Birth?
 
Dalphon said:
Because my point is they didn’t mention Mary every time they preached the gospel. I can include the texts about Mary and still say they didn’t speak about Mary every time.
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And yet, for 2,000 years, wherever the gospel has been preached in its fullness, Mary has been included.

You have evidence of this in your NT.

I doubt folks will be talking about either of us 2,000 years from now. 😉

Is knowledge of Marian doctrines absolutely necessary for salvation. No.

Is knowledge of Marian doctrine normally necessary for Christians. Sure.

Otherwise, why did the Holy Spirit inspire the gospel writers to include so much about her?
 
Randy_Carson said:
ALL-

You can continue this rambling thread if you like, but there are so many topics on the table that nothing is really being accomplished. However, if you want to make real headway with our non-Catholic guest, I encourage you to focus on one issue and one issue only:

Why did Dalphon leave the Catholic Church?
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Well, there are many different ways to make headway.

We can discuss a whole bunch o’ tributary topics and plant seeds in not only Dalphon, but all the lurkers, too.

I rather prefer the tributary discussions myself. Usually the OP topic is asked and answered after about 3 pages and the subsequent discussions are just as interesting as the original one.

But that’s just me. 🙂

Also: I guarantee that any non-Catholic guest here who has any kind of integrity is NEVER going to say again that his church preaches the Bible Alone, now that he knows that his church worships on Sunday and that the Bible Alone doesn’t preach worship on Sundays.

Seed planted. Mission accomplished. Well, perhaps headway gained. Mission accomplishing. 😉
 
PRmerger said:
Well, there are many different ways to make headway.

We can discuss a whole bunch o’ tributary topics and plant seeds in not only Dalphon, but all the lurkers, too.

I rather prefer the tributary discussions myself. Usually the OP topic is asked and answered after about 3 pages and the subsequent discussions are just as interesting as the original one.

But that’s just me. 🙂
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I agree that hitting Dalphon’s softballs is fun (we’ve both taken batting practice like this many, many times), and there’s nothing new or difficult about the questions he is posing.

But I’ve come to think there may be a deeper root of bitterness that needs to be dealt with. Some real personal hurt that is causing unnecessary division.
 
pablope said:
Well…the passage says do not associate…by not associating…do you mean to take this to leave the Church?
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If you read on he says “Put away the evil one from among yourselves.”
He also says their corruption will spread. If they’re not obedient to this teaching I’m not staying.

1 Cor 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know you not that a little leaven corrupteth the whole lump ? 7 Purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new paste, as you are unleavened. For Christ our pasch is sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us feast, not with the old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote to you in an epistle, not to keep company with fornicators. 10 I mean not with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or the extortioners, or the servers of idols; otherwise you must needs go out of this world. 11 But now I have written to you, not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother, be a fornicator, or covetous, or a server of idols, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner: with such a one, not so much as to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them that are without ? Do not you judge them that are within ? 13 For them that are without, God will judge. Put away the evil one from among yourselves.

**Paul says this also.
Eph 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
**
 
Dalphon said:
If you read on he says “Put away the evil one from among yourselves.”
He also says their corruption will spread. If they’re not obedient to this teaching I’m not staying.

1 Cor 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know you not that a little leaven corrupteth the whole lump ? 7 Purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new paste, as you are unleavened. For Christ our pasch is sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us feast, not with the old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote to you in an epistle, not to keep company with fornicators. 10 I mean not with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or the extortioners, or the servers of idols; otherwise you must needs go out of this world. 11 But now I have written to you, not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother, be a fornicator, or covetous, or a server of idols, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner: with such a one, not so much as to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them that are without ? Do not you judge them that are within ? 13 For them that are without, God will judge. Put away the evil one from among yourselves.

**Paul says this also.
Eph 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
**
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Paul is encouraging the faithful to put the immoral OUT of the Church.

Your answer was to put YOURSELF out of the Church.

Do you have a verse for that? :nope:

So, you’ve disobeyed Jesus and misinterpreted Paul… :hmmm:
 
PRmerger said:
So this, too, is not Bible Alone.
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Yes they do things not in the bible. They have musical instruments, electronic equipment, a nursery, parking garage and some even come to church by train, and they have the complete new testament. I see some people using pens too.
 
Randy_Carson said:
I agree that hitting Dalphon’s softballs is fun (we’ve both taken batting practice like this many, many times), and there’s nothing new or difficult about the questions he is posing.

But I’ve come to think there may be a deeper root of bitterness that needs to be dealt with. Some real personal hurt that is causing unnecessary division.
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Indeed.

And another seed that is planted: any non-Catholic Christian with integrity who looks at the sinners in the Catholic Church and says, “I’m glad I left that Church when I see unpleasant and unsavory Catholics!” will have some discomfort. He will now remember, “But Judas was unpleasant and unsavory. And Peter denied Him, three times! It’s like I’m leaving Jesus because of Judas! That’s not very smart!”
 
PRmerger said:
Also, benhur, what answer will you give to the atheist who says, “How can you be a follower of Christianity, which proclaims that even little babies have sinned? For your Bible says that ALL have sinned, right?”

You will have to answer, sadly, “Yes, my interpretation of Scripture does believe that ALL have sinned means NO EXCEPTIONS. And that means that this little guy has sinned, according to my church:”

No wonder the atheist will not be amenable to exploring Christianity. :eek:
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That is SO true, PR.

Most atheists that I’ve heard from or talked to are railing against beliefs that are best classified as “fundamentalist”. I won’t go so far as saying that fundamentalist evangelicals (“bible-only”) drive people away from Christianity, but it seems like a valid opinion in many cases.
 
Dalphon said:
Yes they do things not in the bible. They have musical instruments, electronic equipment, a nursery, parking garage and some even come to church by train, and they have the complete new testament. I see some people using pens too.
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Don’t forget the biggie: Sunday worship.

Maybe you should ask your pastor, if he’s (or she’s) a Bible Alone advocate, why he (or she) is contradicting his own paradigm? (Or her paradigm).
 
Randy_Carson said:
And yet, for 2,000 years, wherever the gospel has been preached in its fullness, Mary has been included.

You have evidence of this in your NT.

I doubt folks will be talking about either of us 2,000 years from now. 😉

Is knowledge of Marian doctrines absolutely necessary for salvation. No.

Is knowledge of Marian doctrine normally necessary for Christians. Sure.
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One further step should also be contemplated:

Is the non-denial of Marian doctrines necessary for salvation. YES!
Because denial of any of the Marian doctrines is denial of an essential truth about Christ.
 
Dalphon said:
Yes they do things not in the bible. They have musical instruments, electronic equipment, a nursery, parking garage and some even come to church by train, and they have the complete new testament. I see some people using pens too.
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Why did you leave the Catholic Church, Dalphon?
 
Randy_Carson said:
Paul is encouraging the faithful to put the immoral OUT of the Church.

Your answer was to put YOURSELF out of the Church.

Do you have a verse for that? :nope:

So, you’ve disobeyed Jesus and misinterpreted Paul… :hmmm:
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No just common sense and a conscience. Like that old song says “He can’t even run his own life, I’ll be damned if he’ll run mine.”

When they don’t change they’re saying “we accept this here.” The people who stay are accomplices. Then they say “We’re OK. People are still coming.” When people leave they say “Gee, I wonder what the problem is?”
 
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