"WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE? The Case that Barack Obama is not Eligible to be President."

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The day a sitting American President has to produce an “official” birth certificate to prove to some people that he’s legally eligable to be the president in the first place is a day of shame and a new low in American idiocy.

In some ways I’m now embarassed to say I live here.
 
Big_Ro said:
…You are, of course, welcome to believe whatever you like and …
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I personally have always accepted the “short” form as proof that O. was born in HI.
Big_Ro said:
… And, BTW, the “fact” that the so called short form is the only allowable document that can be released without a special exemption has been asserted by various news organizations repeatedly…
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The “short” form is manifestly not the only allowable document for release. With very little trouble, O. was able to obtain the “long” form this week.

News organizations are a large part of the problem here, since they have been very slow to get the actual story correct. nor have they bothered to explain the differences in what was done, or why.

O. did not provide a copy of his birth certificate in 2008 - he did that yesterday. He did provide what is essentially an official abstract of the birth certificate which meets legal (and most people’s) standards for proving his birthplace and date. This characterization of the facts has been missing from most media accounts to date. It is a fine distinction, but there is a difference between a certified copy of a record, and a certified abstract of a record (and I might add, the “index” of births that HI also provides the public).

In my view, the HI Dept. policy is not typical (I say this because I know in other states you can easily get access to your own certified copy.), and seems contradictory to requirements to provide to registrants access to their own personal records. I don’t think by law the State would really be able to prohibit you from getting your own full record, if you were born in HI, and if one pushed the request far enough (lawyers, weigh in please!). I get that The Health Dept. prefers to just print out the (no doubt) computer-based abstract and not waste their time making photocopies or scans, but I think the “exception” story is bureaucratic fudging at it’s best. They don’t want to be bothered to produce a certified original copy for everyone that asks. They don’t want to bother with verifying if you are the registrant, or a descendant, or some other party (other state agency, etc.), and provide varying levels of access to the information, so they institute a rule saying “we’ll only give any requestor this bare minimum”.

As a side note, for genealogical purposes, the abstract is not very useful. Genealogists are not satisfied until they can see the full record. They know the difference between the record and an abstract, and trying to pretend that “that’s all there is” really wasn’t going to fly.
 
j1akey said:
The day a sitting American President has to produce an “official” birth certificate to prove to some people that he’s legally eligable to be the president in the first place is a day of shame and a new low in American idiocy.

In some ways I’m now embarassed to say I live here.
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I consider it a great blessing from God that my people came here.
 
In some ways I’m now embarassed to say I live here.:hypno: 😦

Oh, NEVER say that! 😦

Nothing can ever make me embarassed to live in USA. 👍
 
gilliam said:
There is no formal process.

That is what is trying to be defined by the different states issuing bills now. Unfortunately in this climate, they are not likely to get passed.
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Formal or not, there has been a process in place and why should this be a matter to be decided by individual states when the candidate is going to be president of the whole country? He is not running for state leadership so the process should be decided at the federal level otherwise this controversy will pale in comparison to that in might obtain in the future. I can see it now; depending on the state candidates would get asked: may we please have you right baby thumbprint, left baby footprint, newborn hair shaft analysis, cord blood analysis, mother’s ultrasound records, father’s ____ specimen…DNA analysis of a preserved placental specimen! It would never end. Just like the present story won’t.
 
kimmielittle said:
Notice the title here “hrscurrant”

capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0013.htm
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KimimeLittle: I posted while not seeing your post, but I get the gist. The state has a statute requiring the state to provide a person’s full record if they ask for it. The Dept of Health has a policy saying that they provide requestors just the extract or “short” form. Law trumps policy, I suppose, but only if someone challenges the policy. The policy, I would suspect, is just typical bureacracy avoiding providing a service. Probably, the short form satisfies most requests, so they try to cut down on long form requests.
 
estesbob said:
I’m still trying to find a another president who was asked to prove that his VP did not fly in a supersecret supersonic spy plane to Iran to convince the leadership to keep hostages imprisoned until after his inauguration. This of course happened in 1980 and there was even a congressional investigation into this nonsense. The point being that Obama is not being treated any differently than any other president and his supporters are either terribly naïve in believing that such political machinations are unusual, or, to quote Shakespeare, “methinks you protest too much”" Perhaps if Obama had not assumed the presidency less than five years after leaving the Illinois state Senate he would’ve been a little better prepared to play politics in the big leagues.
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Has absolutely nothing to do with my comment which you quoted. 1980 Iran has nothing to do with one, and only one, President being told “Your state’s official birth record isn’t good enough – in your case only, of course.”
Has nothing to do with “playing in the big leagues.”
 
j1akey said:
The day a sitting American President has to produce an “official” birth certificate to prove to some people that he’s legally eligable to be the president in the first place is a day of shame and a new low in American idiocy.

In some ways I’m now embarassed to say I live here.
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Oh the outrage 🙂

Didn’t we have a sitting President have to explain the girl under the desk?

Didn’t we have a sitting President have to explain Watergate?

In each of these insistences these were brought on - fueled BY these Presidents.

Mr Obama has used Government funds / time / resources for something he could have / did produce within a week.

Mr Obama is no martyr in this.

I believe, Mr. Obama knew fairly early on that a Long Form existed - That was what he spent the money on.
 
JHow said:
KimimeLittle: I posted while not seeing your post, but I get the gist. The state has a statute requiring the state to provide a person’s full record if they ask for it. The Dept of Health has a policy saying that they provide requestors just the extract or “short” form. Law trumps policy, I suppose, but only if someone challenges the policy. The policy, I would suspect, is just typical bureacracy avoiding providing a service. Probably, the short form satisfies most requests, so they try to cut down on long form requests.
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👍👍

And I agree with your last post 👍
 
seekerz said:
Formal or not, there has been a process in place and why should this be a matter to be decided by individual states when the candidate is going to be president of the whole country? He is not running for state leadership so the process should be decided at the federal level otherwise this controversy will pale in comparison to that in might obtain in the future. I can see it now; depending on the state candidates would get asked: may we please have you right baby thumbprint, left baby footprint, newborn hair shaft analysis, cord blood analysis, mother’s ultrasound records, father’s ____ specimen…DNA analysis of a preserved placental specimen! It would never end. Just like the present story won’t.
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I agree that under the current system the process that may emerge could be ludicrous, but I can’t agree that this should be decided at the Federal level. Elections are the rightful purview of the States, certain SCOTUS cases not withstanding. And I repsectfully disagree with the esteemed Gilliam. There is a formal process. It’s well defined and long standing. That it doesn’t do what you might want it to do or is too cumbersome for your tastes is another matter altogether.
 
agnes_therese said:
…“Your state’s official birth record isn’t good enough – in your case only, of course.”…
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Look, pro-Obama folks: the “short” form is an extract of the birth record, and does not meet most people’s expectations of what a “birth certificate” is in plain English.

If it wasn’t Obama, and we spread long forms and short forms on a table and asked people off the street to identify which forms were “birth certificates”, you all know how the experiment would end.
 
JHow said:
Look, pro-Obama folks: the “short” form is an extract of the birth record, and does not meet most people’s expectations of what a “birth certificate” is in plain English.

If it wasn’t Obama, and we spread long forms and short forms on a table and asked people off the street to identify which forms were “birth certificates”, you all know how the experiment would end.
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Please don’t call me a pro-Obama person.
 
cradlecatholic5 said:
Big Ro - what does “never mind” mean?
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Sorry, I started to write something in reference to your post, but decided that it may viewed as uncharitable. I erased it and don’t really know how to make my attempted post go away. So I wrote never mind. You can trace back the thread and see that the Mod has been very clear and adamant about posting charitably and to avoid name calling such as calling someone pro-Obama. The Mods are wise and fair so I want to avoid drawing any chastisement however light. I want to respect this thread, my fellow members and the forum in general.
 
JHow said:
Look, pro-Obama folks: the “short” form is an extract of the birth record, and does not meet most people’s expectations of what a “birth certificate” is in plain English.

If it wasn’t Obama, and we spread long forms and short forms on a table and asked people off the street to identify which forms were “birth certificates”, you all know how the experiment would end.
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Labelling people will only get you so far, but whatever suits your fancy. If the short form was not acceptable then it stands to reason that the authorities would not have accepted it - unless they were -]under Obama’s hypnotic spell/-] -]in Obama’s pocket/-] totally incompetent. Is this an assertion being made here?
 
seekerz said:
Labelling people will only get you so far, but whatever suits your fancy. If the short form was not acceptable then it stands to reason that the authorities would not have accepted it - unless they were -]under Obama’s hypnotic spell/-] -]in Obama’s pocket/-] totally incompetent. Is this an assertion being made here?
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I think Barack is Kenyan for Mandrake. Not sure.
 
thanks, Big Ro. I appreciate that.

BTW, my Mom was Irish - Roseann (huge Notre Dame fan) 😃
my Dad was Italian - we always said “gaelic & garlic” went well together. They had a wonderful marriage. 🙂
 
seekerz said:
If the short form was not acceptable then it stands to reason that the authorities would not have accepted it - unless they were -]under Obama’s hypnotic spell/-] -]in Obama’s pocket/-] totally incompetent. Is this an assertion being made here?
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Well.l.l. the misleading misinformation …::D:D

The short of the matter:
Did the Long Form exist ?
Does the Long Form have more information on it than the Short Form?
Does Hawaiian law allow him to a copy of it?

Is that the story the public has been told for 2-3 years?
 
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