"WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE? The Case that Barack Obama is not Eligible to be President."

[ManOnFire]

Interesting, but not the question I asked. But the ‘lefties made me do it approach’ is hardly original anyway…Some guys even cheat (on regular wives, dying wives…take your pick) because they’re so stressed out saving the country from “the left”.

Maybe if they weren’t surrounded and bombarded by images of hotties day in and day out, less would become so fatally distracted, statistically speaking.

 

[seekerz]

Maybe if they weren’t surrounded and bombarded by images of hotties day in and day out, less would become so fatally distracted, statistically speaking.

I’m confused, who is to blame: the ‘hotties’ or the ‘left’ or are they one and the same?

 

[ManOnFire]

I do have one other question related to Mrs. Taitz. I watched with my usual amusement as she pushed her case to the SCOTUS. I’ve been wondering whether this might be the premise for the oft stated accusation that the President has spent $2mm or $3mm defending/resisting the release of the said document. From what I can tell, the claim originated from a story on WND. It has been, to my understanding, allegedly debunked, but has been continuously put forth as fact by many on this thread especially our thread captain kimmielittle. (I don’t mean thread captain in an uncharitable way. It’s just that she has continuously demanded that her assertions be responded to and has taken it upon herself to determine which members posts are germaine to this topic in a somewhat over bearing way. She has also, IMHO, displayed an uncharitable attitude to those that disagree with her or find her conclusions lacking. I am guilty of same but have tried to reform my ways. I hope I’m succeeding. She has a right and I’ll leave it to the Mods to decide when or if she has breached the bounds of this thread.) Is there any evidence that the President or his minions have in any way taken affirmative steps to prevent/resist the release of the so called long form document? I would be happy to entertain the evidence and I can be persuaded with credible evidence. It would go a long toward helping me to disabuse myself of my current belief that there is nothing to this whole birth certificate stuff.

Several sites claim the following: That one cannot be a citizen of both Indonesia and the US. He was adopted by his Indonesian step-father and moved to Indonesia. This would mean he would have had to relinquish his US citizenship if true. These other sites then claim that he applied for, and was given, a full college scholarship to Occidental under a foreign scholarship designation. Well, obviously he should not have been granted a college scholarship as a foreigner if he was US citizen, unless he really was an Indonesian citizen, but then he might not be eligible to be President unless his citizenship was formally recreated. If he truly was a US citizen all this time, then he better not have been awarded a college scholarship as a foreigner.

Hillary Clinton couldn’t get him to release his birth certificate 2 1/2 years ago, so I don’t know why people think this is some right wing conspiracy. We have laws. If there’s doubt that they are not followed, someone BETTER ask some questions. “Ask questions, challenge authority” are liberal mantras. Imagine the hypocrisy of those who refuse to ask questions due to blind loyalty. And people wonder how Hitler rose to power. Scary. Even scarier is the possibility that laws were ignored by the powers that be simply because “they” wanted it that way. Do we still have a democracy?

 

[Big_Ro]

Again, I have a basic and probably flawed understanding of the term and the history of Ireland. I understood that it had something to do with the expulsion of the Moores from Spain by El Cid. It seems, from your post, that I at least got that it does have something to do with the intermingling of Spanish people with the Irish. My family surname is actually Portuguese. Although, in S. TX we’re just commonly referred to as mexican, mexican-american or hispanic. I personally reject all those terms but avoid being personally offended by them. I generally refer to myself as an American or Texan. I must say, at the risk of seeming to fawn, I have a tremendous affinity for Irish people. I love Irish priests and dated more than one Irish gal back in the day. Of course, that was a long time ago and I can only assume they were Irish as I took them at their word and never thought to ask for a long form BC. Silly me. I have been happily married to the most wonderful woman for the last 16 plus years and we have three outstanding children. I’m blessed.

 

[Big_Ro]

Several sites claim the following: That one cannot be a citizen of both Indonesia and the US. He was adopted by his Indonesian step-father and moved to Indonesia. This would mean he would have had to relinquish his US citizenship if true. These other sites then claim that he applied for, and was given, a full college scholarship to Occidental under a foreign scholarship designation. Well, obviously he should not have been granted a college scholarship as a foreigner if he was US citizen, unless he really was an Indonesian citizen, but then he might not be eligible to be President unless his citizenship was formally recreated. If he truly was a US citizen all this time, then he better not have been awarded a college scholarship as a foreigner.

Hillary Clinton couldn’t get him to release his birth certificate 2 1/2 years ago, so I don’t know why people think this is some right wing conspiracy. We have laws. If there’s doubt that they are not followed, someone BETTER ask some questions. “Ask questions, challenge authority” are liberal mantras. Imagine the hypocrisy of those who refuse to ask questions due to blind loyalty. And people wonder how Hitler rose to power. Scary. Even scarier is the possibility that laws were ignored by the powers that be simply because “they” wanted it that way. Do we still have a democracy?

There are websites that claim to have proof of UFO’s. As far as I know, we are not required to take their assertions as being true. I have heard these theories before and will submit that there is no proof that the President was adopted by Mr. Soetero. I think the legal basis for asserting that even if he was adopted that his citizenship status would ahve been changed is suspect. There is no evicence besides the heresay of some such as Orly Taitz, that Mr. Obama was accepted in to any college on a scholarship reserved for foreign students. I think you should post links to the websites where you found this info so that we can make an independent analysis of their veracity. And, in case your worried, I won’t be persuaded to cheat on my wife, do drugs or any other such nonsense if there are images that might appeal to my prurient interests on these websites. I am firmly grounded in my faith and took my vows quite seriously.

It will say these sorts of accusations are really a canard. They are made so that they can be denied and then the President can be accused of hiding something because he won’t release his college transcripts in order to prove or disprove the charge. And, I will now predict that if and when he caves to these sorts of attacks the accusers will suggest that his diocuments are forged or otherwise compromised.

I would also kindly ask you to adopt a more charitable tone and language towards those that disagree with you. The NAzi card is, IMHO, out of bounds.

 

[oldcelt]

The term ‘Black Irish’ is usually used in romantic myth to refer to a popular legend that the remants of the Spanish armada mixed with the local people and thus this accounts for the ‘Black Irish’ type of Irish person you see. Such as myself for example.

I too, have a connection to this. My ancestors were largely from County Offlay. Some years ago, after having had a knee replacement, my doctor was inspecting the scar. He told me that it was healing nicely and the wide scarring was typical of someone of “Mediterranean descent.”

A bit of a surprise since we have always believed that we were of German-Irish lineage. DNA is revolutionizing our understanding of heredity.

John

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

If I highlight your choice of words, then who is responsible for writing them. Me or you? I do not write your posts for you, and I made no comment about them. You are entitled to your opinions. I am not misrepresenting your arguments. You are projecting.

Okay… we’re done. You’ve been carefully inserting arguments in reply to my posts in an attempt to get me to argue with you for the sake of arguing.

I submit the following posts to show the escalation and interjection on your part…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7813097&postcount=892
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7813128&postcount=897
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7813213&postcount=905
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7813487&postcount=916

For example… I posted this comment as an explanation of a position.

You then replied:

You subtly projected yourself into the discussion as if the comment was directed toward you in an accusatory context. It was not directed toward you, and no such accusation was made toward you. You have done this several times through the discussion.

I haven’t got time to spend verbally fencing with you. So, I’m putting an end to this. Let’s let things be.

I’m putting you on my ignore list. Please do not reply to any more of my posts as I will no longer be able see any of your posts. Therefore, it will be futile for you to attempt to continue this discussion.

Though our friend Sonic might have chosen to ignore me, I believe I am still entitled to respond to his rather strange and unusual post. The first quote in this message wasn’t even directed at him. The rest of his post is an unnecessary attack on me and my character, which was unprovoked and unnecessary. I have no interest in arguing with him and if one were to search my other posts on CAF, you’d find I don’t attempt to do that kind of thing.

Unfortunately, a lot of folks in the “anti-birther” side HAVE made accusations like that. Yahoo News even had an article there todaybasically questioning whether some birthers were motivated by a hidden, unacknowledged racism regarding our commander in chief.

I tend to be very skeptical of hidden, unacknowledged racism. I don’t think most birthers are racist.

Look, ChristInTheWay, I regret and am sorry if I gave the impression that I think that you think I’m a racist-----but it is really ridiculous to imply that simply because folks question certain things that Obama has done in his lifeand whether he has been honest about it is “ridiculous” really gets to me.
And may God forgive for that, too.

Well, I can’t help but find the argument that Obama is not an American is without merit. I am sorry. The main point presented here, though, doesn’t have much to do with that and has more to do with Obama’s attitude about the whole affair. I don’t make much out of it and even sympathize with the president, but I will clarify that I don’t think asking that kind of question (transparency, constitution) is ridiculous or foolish. However, I don’t personally put much weight on the concerns.

And the mocking, almost “bully-like” tone of some in the media and the public that basically says “whatever your questions still are, they are answered now. Drop it and drop it now” really is insulting. And no, I’m not saying you are one of those. But a lot of critics of the birth certificate questioners have that attitude.

I don’t much care for the media’s over all conduct in this issue or any other. They go for the most sensational and controversial presentation because that is what sells. The truth, or at least most of it, often gets left behind.

As to the “why did he not do this two years ago,” that may be true, but A) these are not stupid questions, ChristIsTheWay. And I would feel the same way about Dubya. This is about whether or not a public official has been honest and forthcoming about his background and his eligibility to be commander-in-chief to this country. B) For two years he chose not to release this—and that is his right. But that does not mean he is exempt form people wondering about his reluctance. He is not some private Hollywood celebrity, now. He is the leader of the free world and the most powerful man on earth.

All true. I just don’t feel he has been dishonest about his background or eligibility. And you have a right to question, no doubt. I don’t dispute that, even if I don’t agree with your assessment of the importance of the question.

But yes---------

Again, I’m sorry if I gave off that impression that I think you think I’m racist. but I just think that this saying that people who question Obama’s birth certificate are all working until partisan people making ridiculous accusations simply to throw Obama out of office is itself ridiculous. And a lot of people in that side of the aisle think that. Not you, again. Me and other are just rodinary americans who demand honesty, accountibility and respect for the country, the rule of law and its applications from their elected officials.
And yes, some in the “birther” movement may have less-than-honest motives, but I’m confident in saying those are in the distinct minority. And most of us would do the same for a President on the other sie of the political aisle.

Contrary to what my over all attitude has been, I don’t really don’t have much grief against even the birthers. For the record, I am not an Obama supporter or a Democrat.

 

[Big_Ro]

Very interesting. I guess humans are given to believing the outlandish and romantic rather than the most plausible and more mundane explanation for why things are the way they are. And, yes, we must not test the patience of the Mods. Apologies.

 

[Big_Ro]

Try birther queen.

 

[ManOnFire]

There are websites that claim to have proof of UFO’s. As far as I know, we are not required to take their assertions as being true. I have heard these theories before and will submit that there is no proof that the President was adopted by Mr. Soetero. I think the legal basis for asserting that even if he was adopted that his citizenship status would ahve been changed is suspect. There is no evicence besides the heresay of some such as Orly Taitz, that Mr. Obama was accepted in to any college on a scholarship reserved for foreign students. I think you should post links to the websites where you found this info so that we can make an independent analysis of their veracity. And, in case your worried, I won’t be persuaded to cheat on my wife, do drugs or any other such nonsense if there are images that might appeal to my prurient interests on these websites. I am firmly grounded in my faith and took my vows quite seriously.

In all seriousness, I wish everyone was as strong as you. The flesh is weak, as evidenced by the rise in single parenthood from 10% a few decades ago to 50% today. Taxpayers are forced to pay for absent dads. Some of us are forced to do double duty. Where’s the justice?

It will say these sorts of accusations are really a canard. They are made so that they can be denied and then the President can be accused of hiding something because he won’t release his college transcripts in order to prove or disprove the charge. And, I will now predict that if and when he caves to these sorts of attacks the accusers will suggest that his diocuments are forged or otherwise compromised.

Tell that to Hillary Clinton. She could be President right now.

I would also kindly ask you to adopt a more charitable tone and language towards those that disagree with you. The NAzi card is, IMHO, out of bounds.

I’m not playing the nazi card, I’m playing the “your blind devotion is scary” card and the “truth is nothing to fear” card, unless the truth really is something for some of you to fear.

 

[LemonAndLime]

Try birther queen.

Aren’t they found in bee hives?

 

[Sonic]

nationalreview.com/corner/265767/pdf-layers-obamas-birth-certificate-nathan-goulding

National Review Online has a story that allegedly debunks the OCR Theory for rendering the released document a fake or forgery. I do not personally posses sufficient technical expertise to begin to understand the arguments for and against this Theory. And, so were clear, I don’t need it explained to me. Their supposed debunking seems pretty straight forward, logical, and plausible. I will await for others to enlighten me as to why I should believe otherwise.

I opened up the National Review’s pdf document in Illustrator (along with other software listed in my last post) and applied the same tests. I can honestly tell you, that the National Review’s example does not mimic what happens when you open the white house document.

The biggest difference is the layers of the NR’s document overlap, and you can see fragments of text on one layer repeated in layers beneath it. This does not happen int he White House document. Also, the background layers of the NR document we also picked up and fragmented along with the lettering and lines and also overlap. The WH document does not do this. Each layer is individual and in tact with no overlapping and no fragmentation of font or background.

I would say it actually proves the white house document was not put through an OCR scan.

The conversation listed below was in response to the National Review’s article:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7814010&postcount=929
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7814015&postcount=930

 

[Big_Ro]

In all seriousness, I wish everyone was as strong as you. The flesh is weak, as evidenced by the rise in single parenthood from 10% a few decades ago to 50% today. Taxpayers are forced to pay for absent dads. Some of us are forced to do double duty. Where’s the justice?

Tell that to Hillary Clinton. She could be President right now.

I’m not playing the nazi card, I’m playing the “your blind devotion is scary” card and the “truth is nothing to fear” card, unless the truth really is something for some of you to fear.

Your comment is offensive in the extreme. You pretend to know my mind. I provide devotion to no one except God. I fear no truth. And, your continued reference to what you see as dangers in popular culture is fine but off topic. I would kindly ask you to keep your vile comments to yourself or at least not direct them at me.

 

[seekerz]

Taxpayers are forced to pay for absent dads. Some of us are forced to do double duty. Where’s the justice?

Some of us wholeheartedly help those “little ones” whose fate might otherwise have been worse - justice can be a matter of perspective. There is nothing I have earned or worked for in life that someone else did not first sacrifice to make accessible to me. In turn, I would happily substitute for an absent parent if I could - financially and otherwise. For me, that’s justice.

 

[Big_Ro]

I opened up the National Review’s pdf document in Illustrator (along with other software listed in my last post) and applied the same tests. I can honestly tell you, that the National Review’s example does not mimic what happens when you open the white house document.

The biggest difference is the layers of the NR’s document overlap, and you can see fragments of text on one layer repeated in layers beneath it. This does not happen int he White House document. Also, the background layers of the NR document we also picked up and fragmented along with the lettering and lines and also overlap. The WH document does not do this. Each layer is individual and in tact with no overlapping and no fragmentation of font or background.

I would say it actually proves the white house document was not put through an OCR scan.

The conversation listed below was in response to the National Review’s article:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7814010&postcount=929
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7814015&postcount=930

Well, I don’t know what to tell you my brother. I simply do not posses the technical understanding of these matters to to even understand what ya’ll are talking about. I just wanted to provide some info and maybe get some insight from the more technically minded among us to put the alleged debunking to the test. I still can’t figure out how to scan a document in to my computer properly. When I ahve more time, I’ll try to wade through the info and see if I can’t get my pea brain around it. Thanks though and God bless.

 

[Big_Ro]

She’s quite entertaining. The Federal Courts had a field day with her. They beat her like a $2 pinata. Which brings up an interesting point. She is an active purveyor of many of the theories put forth here and in many other places. She used them as “evidence” in her attempt to have the courts declare the President ineligible. The courts found her claims without merit and in fact fined her for troubling the courts with her nonsense. Are we to believe as she has claimed that the courts are also in cahoots with Mr. Obama and part and parcel of the massive conspiracy as well? Are sitting federal judges many appointed by Republican Presidents incapable of seeing the obvious truth of the conspiracy?

 

[seekerz]

She’s quite entertaining. The Federal Courts had a field day with her. They beat her like a $2 pinata. Which brings up an interesting point. She is an active purveyor of many of the theories put forth here and in many other places. She used them as “evidence” in her attempt to have the courts declare the President ineligible. The courts found her claims without merit and in fact fined her for troubling the courts with her nonsense. Are we to believe as she has claimed that the courts are also in cahoots with Mr. Obama and part and parcel of the massive conspiracy as well? Are sitting federal judges many appointed by Republican Presidents incapable of seeing the obvious truth of the conspiracy?

This woman is one of the reasons I keep asking the “there were questions from the beginning” posters, who exactly raised these questions. (The standard Hillary Clinton explanation sounds rather convenient to me since it seems improbable that people who would never vote Clinton would follow her example even for 5 seconds). Of course to admit that I yelled ‘fire’ just because someone else in the crowded theater did first, could sound a mite embarrassing if that someone sounded anything like MsTaitz.

 

[Big_Ro]

This woman is one of the reasons I keep asking the “there were questions from the beginning” posters, who exactly raised these questions. (The standard Hillary Clinton explanation sounds rather convenient to me since it seems improbable that people who would never vote Clinton would follow her example even for 5 seconds). Of course to admit that I yelled ‘fire’ just because someone else in the crowded theater did first, could sound a mite embarrassing if that someone sounded anything like MsTaitz.

Well I don’t know of any credible evidence that the original accusation came from Hillary’s camp although I wouldn’t be surprised. I don’t mean that in any way disparaging towards her, but I know first hand that she and her husband are very tough campaigners. And as others have posited, politics, especially electoral politics, is not for the weak or faint of heart. It was widely believed that the anonymous emails that started the whole thing off were believed to come from her camp. It was never conclusively proven and as far as I know no one has come forward to take credit.

I am intrigued by your “yelling fire” analogy. Does the second person bear the same culpability as the first person if they know that there is no fire?

 

[seekerz]

Well I don’t know of any credible evidence that the original accusation came from Hillary’s camp although I wouldn’t be surprised. I don’t mean that in any way disparaging towards her, but I know first hand that she and her husband are very tough campaigners. And as others have posited, politics, especially electoral politics, is not for the weak or faint of heart. It was widely believed that the anonymous emails that started the whole thing off were believed to come from her camp. It was never conclusively proven and as far as I know no one has come forward to take credit.

I am intrigued by your “yelling fire” analogy. Does the second person bear the same culpability as the first person if they know that there is no fire?

If the first person sounded like Ms Taitz and I had to hazard a guess, I’d say most certainly the second person should have known there was no fire. As for culpability, I’ll leave that to the theologians…Can you say Kenyan birth certificate?

 

[Big_Ro]

If the first person sounded like Ms Taitz and I had to hazard a guess, I’d say most certainly the second person should have known there was no fire. As for culpability, I’ll leave that to the theologians…Can you say Kenyan birth certificate?

Yes I can. That was easily one of the best episodes. She punked herself.