Where's the tabernacle?

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I feel so sheltered. I have attended the Latin Mass since birth, and the Tabernacle is always in the front and displayed prominently.
I grew up with the Latin Mass then we moved and the church uses the New Mass but I must say this church has the tabernacle in the center of the alter. Actually it is behind the alter but in the center. If I want to hear a Latin Mass I have to travel an hour to get there. I am going to ask this pastor if any one in the parish wants a Latin Mass and maybe get the ball rolling to have one here.

If they wanted to say the Mass in the vernacular why didn’t they leave all the prayers in tack and just translate them? Seems to me they cut out some of the more beautiful prayers.

I don’t like the hand shaking either.

JeanneH
 
Hi 1ke
I think you should do some basic research before you go around making allegations of this nature. Frankly, I find your entire post insulting and ignorant.
Try reading “The Suicide of Altering the Faith in the Liturgy” by Fr. Paul L. Kramer before you call me ignorant.
We Catholics need to get our heads out of the sand before it is too late.

JeanneH

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I grew up with the Latin Mass then we moved and the church uses the New Mass but I must say this church has the tabernacle in the center of the alter. Actually it is behind the alter but in the center. If I want to hear a Latin Mass I have to travel an hour to get there.
JeanneH
FWIW, there is no prohibition against having the tabernacle on a side altar, traditionally. In the cases of the larger (collegiate) churches and the cathedrals it was encouraged and in one or two cases, even mandated (i.e. the Congregation of Rites refused permission to move it to the high altar of the cathedral).

IMHO, more of the problem is that the side positions in many churches today are not very dignified or prominent.
 
Hi 1ke

Try reading “The Suicide of Altering the Faith in the Liturgy” by Fr. Paul L. Kramer before you call me ignorant.
We Catholics need to get our heads out of the sand before it is too late.

JeanneH

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Hang in there JeanneH. Adhere to what the traditionalists placed in the Vatican II document the DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DIVINE REVELATION and you can’t go wrong.
8.0… Therefore the Apostles, handing on what they themselves had received, warn the faithful to hold fast to the traditions which they have learned either by word of mouth or by letter and to fight in defense of the faith handed on once and for all. Now what was handed on by the Apostles includes everything which contributes toward the holiness of life and increase in faith of the peoples of God; and so the Church, in her teaching, life and worship, perpetuates and hands on to all generations all that she herself is, all that she believes. This tradition which comes from the Apostles develop in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Pope Pius XII “To separate tabernacle from altar is to separate two things which by their origin and nature should remain united.”

Pope Pius XII was aware of the liberalism/modernism that was creeping into the Church and he addresses that in* MEDIATOR DEI *
62…Thus, to cite some instances, one would be straying from the straight path were he to wish the altar restored to its primitive table form; were he to want black excluded as a color for the liturgical vestments; were he to forbid the use of sacred images and statues in Churches; were he to order the crucifix so designed that the divine Redeemer’s body shows no trace of His cruel sufferings".
162. From what We have already explained, Venerable Brethren, it is perfectly clear how much modern writers are wanting in the genuine and true liturgical spirit who, deceived by the illusion of a higher mysticism, dare to assert that attention should be paid not to the historic Christ but to a “pneumatic” or glorified Christ. They do not hesitate to assert that a change has taken place in the piety of the faithful by dethroning, as it were, Christ from His position; since they say that the glorified Christ, who liveth and reigneth forever and sitteth at the right hand of the Father, has been overshadowed and in His place has been substituted that Christ who lived on earth. For this reason, some have gone so far as to want to remove from the churches images of the divine Redeemer suffering on the cross.
176. In keeping with your pastoral solicitude, Venerable Brethren, do not cease to recommend and encourage these exercises of piety from which the faithful, entrusted to your care, cannot but derive salutary fruit. Above all, do not allow – as some do, who are deceived under the pretext of restoring the liturgy or who idly claim that only liturgical rites are of any real value and dignity – that churches be closed during the hours not appointed for public functions, as has already happened in some places: where the adoration of the august sacrament and visits to our Lord in the tabernacles are neglected; where confession of devotion is discouraged; and devotion to the Virgin Mother of God, a sign of “predestination” according to the opinion of holy men, is so neglected, especially among the young, as to fade away and gradually vanish. Such conduct most harmful to Christian piety is like poisonous fruit, growing on the infected branches of a healthy tree, which must be cut off so that the life-giving sap of the tree may bring forth only the best fruit.
189. We desire to commend and urge the adornment of churches and altars. Let each one feel moved by the inspired word, “the zeal of thy house hath eaten me up”;[169] and strive as much as in him lies that everything in the church, including vestments and liturgical furnishings, even though not rich nor lavish, be perfectly clean and appropriate, since all is consecrated to the Divine Majesty. If we have previously disapproved of the error of those who would wish to outlaw images from churches on the plea of reviving an ancient tradition, We now deem it Our duty to censure the inconsiderate zeal of those who propose for veneration in the Churches and on the altars, without any just reason, a multitude of sacred images and statues, and also those who display unauthorized relics, those who emphasize special and insignificant practices, neglecting essential and necessary things. They thus bring religion into derision and lessen the dignity of worship

The bland sanctuaries that are being installed in the newly build churches and the modern style cross without the body of Jesus do not lead toward piety nor a sense of the Sacred.
 
At the Synod of Bishops in 2005 the following concerning the Tabernacle was addressed. Seems to me all of the following has been ignored. In most Churches constructed since the early 80’s the Tabernacle has been removed and place out of site into another part of the Church.
  1. Furthermore, it must not to be forgotten that faith in the Real Presence of the dead and risen Lord in the Blessed Sacrament has a culminating point in Eucharistic adoration, a firmly grounded tradition in the Latin Church. Such a practice—rightly highlighted in many Lineamenta responses—should not be presented as something apart from the Eucharistic celebration but as its natural continuation. The responses also indicate that some particular Churches are experiencing a reawakening in Eucharistic adoration, which, in each case, is to be done in a dignified and solemn manner.
    Likewise, the positioning of the tabernacle in an easily seen place is another way of attesting to faith in Christ’s Real Presence in the Blessed Sacrament. In this regard, the responses to the Lineamenta request that significant thought be given to the proper location of the tabernacle in Churches, with due attention to canonical norms.65 It is worth considering whether the removal of the tabernacle from the centre of the sanctuary to an obscure, undignified corner or to a separate chapel, or whether to have placed the celebrant’s chair in the centre of the sanctuary or in front of the tabernacle—as was done in many renovations of older churches and in new constructions—has contributed in some way to a decrease in faith in the Real Presence.
    The responses also note that instructions in the construction and re-structuring of Churches often insist in a particular way on the positioning of the tabernacle to express an awareness of the Real Presence. When this is done, it results in an increase in faith and adoration. Churches ought to remain places of prayer and adoration and not be transformed into museums. This is also the case for cathedrals and basilicas of great historic and artistic value
    vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20050707_instrlabor-xi-assembly_en.html
 
I went to a Catholic Church in a neighboring town a couple of weeks ago and the tabernacle was on the side of the altar instead of the center, where all attention should be focused.
 
The tabernacle should be in the very center.

In the midst of the covering and veil, where the priests were allowed to enter, was situated the altar of incense, the symbol of the earth placed in the middle of this universe; and from it came the fumes of incense.

(St. Basil, The Mystic Meaning of the Tabernacle, Bk V, Ch VI; Clement of Rome, Stromata, Bk V)

P.S. BloodStandRose: I wrote my response before I saw yours! I have edited it to write the PS.
 
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1ke:
I think you should do some basic research before you go around making allegations of this nature. Frankly, I find your entire post insulting and ignorant.
I find this statement ignorant and insulting. She is allowed to express her opinion whether you like it or not.

I agree with a lot of the things that she has said. The churches are protestantised and the Mass of Paul VI, while valid, is a protestantised version of the Mass. When the Mass was created, six protestant ministers where on board to help make the Mass more appealing to protestants in order to foster unity.

I have also heard that Pope Paul VI weeped when he realised that he’d authorised this Mass; apparently he didn’t read the Missal beforehand.

The fact that the tabernacle is hidden is just another way that the eucharist is disrespected along with the fact that the Eucharist is received on the hand.

I don’t want to say anymore as the thread would go off topic.
 
I agree, Dempsey. I have also read about Paul VI weeping when he realized…

Lots of interesting comments here. What has happened in the Church is like the “telephone game”, one misinterpretation based on another. My best friend is a convert and went to a Lutheran service for her parents’ anniversary. She was amazed that it was just like a Novus Ordo.
 
My best friend is a convert and went to a Lutheran service for her parents’ anniversary. She was amazed that it was just like a Novus Ordo.
I’ve heard that it’s very similar. That’s probably due to the fact that Protestant ministers helped to formulate the Novus Ordo. Apparently, the Lutherans and other Protestants could use the Novus Ordo without a problem because the sensitive issues have been ‘shaded’. I’ve even heard that some German Lutherans do use the Novus Ordo.

I do hope that the motu proprio encourages people to attend the Latin Mass. Hopefully, this will become the dominant or ordinary rite of the Church again, with the Mass of Paul VI becoming the extraordinary form.
 
For Dempsey 1919 for your sopport and for Stmaria for your encouragement. I thank you

God Bless
JeanneH
 
At my parish that is about 10 mins south of Madison, WI, our tabernacle is in a small chapel as you come in off to your right.

I’m not sure, but there is something that is on the wall next to a statue of the Virgin Mary that has a cross painted on it. I don’t know if this is a tabernacle as well…
 
The Holy of Holies (The Tabernacle and the Blessed Sacrament) must be at the alter and does not ever distract.
Not according to the rules of the Church.
It is the center of our Church and existence itself…The source and summit of Christian Life…It is our Blessed Lord in the Most August Sacrament of the Alter.
Anyone who speaks otherwise is wrong!
]Apparently Rome is wrong, then. Actually, the Church says the Mass is the sum and summit; the rules also say that the priest should strive to consecrate ony enough Hosts for distribution at that Mass and not be having large numbers reserved.
Putting the Blessed Sacrament off to the side is rebellion in the form of “convienience” amongst other excuses. People are putting Christ “off the the side” and “out of sight” because then they can deal better with the guilt of the sin ans sacrelidge that is committed.
That is why in churches with the Blessed Sacrament off to the side or “hidden” there is much liturgical abuse.
Not giving proper dignity to the tabernacle and the Blessed Sacrament It is a grave injustice.
Oh, so now my parish, which has the Eucharist reserved in a chapel, is full of liturgical abuses? Like the 24 hourPerpetual Adoration we have in our parish? You are entitled to your opinions, but I suspect they are not backed yup by any real world experience.

And by the way, the Church must have been wrong for almost half its existence, as that was about how long it took the Church to start having a tabernacle on the main altar.
 
I’ve heard that it’s very similar. That’s probably due to the fact that Protestant ministers helped to formulate the Novus Ordo. Apparently, the Lutherans and other Protestants could use the Novus Ordo without a problem because the sensitive issues have been ‘shaded’. I’ve even heard that some German Lutherans do use the Novus Ordo.

I do hope that the motu proprio encourages people to attend the Latin Mass. Hopefully, this will become the dominant or ordinary rite of the Church again, with the Mass of Paul VI becoming the extraordinary form.
Perhaps you could tell us what specific alterations were made at the behest of the Protestant ministers?

Now, if someone could take a book of say Lutheran liturgies at the time of the NO and show how they conform, that would really clinch it for me.
I have also heard that Pope Paul VI weeped when he realised that he’d authorised this Mass; apparently he didn’t read the Missal beforehand.
This is interesting. Could you please cite a source?

(😃 As an aside, it also reminded me of the movie Sum of All Fears where the Russian President says “These days, beter to appear guilty than impotent” )
 
If there is a choice between having the tabernacle located on the high altar in the sanctuary, but the church remaining locked most of the time, because of security and safety issues, OR having the tabernacle located in a day chapel, separate from the main church, which can be open all or part of the day for adoration, I will always vote for the latter if I have a say so. The best new church and renovations designs I have seen, and they happen only where the site allows for it, are were the architecture places the reservation chapel behind the sanctuary and main altar, with its own outside entrance, and doors, grille or some other way of closing it off from the main church.
 
AJV said:
Perhaps you could tell us what specific alterations were made at the behest of the Protestant ministers?

Now, if someone could take a book of say Lutheran liturgies at the time of the NO and show how they conform, that would really clinch it for me.

You can find out for yourself…this thread is not about the Masses, it’s about the tabernacle. The thread will be closed if we stray of topic.

Watch Reform or Revolt: The Mass of Paul VI
youtube.com/watch?v=lxx1ZRMpfk8

This should help to answer any questions you may have.
 
Not according to the rules of the Church. ]Apparently Rome is wrong, then. Actually, the Church says the Mass is the sum and summit; the rules also say that the priest should strive to consecrate ony enough Hosts for distribution at that Mass and not be having large numbers reserved.

Oh, so now my parish, which has the Eucharist reserved in a chapel, is full of liturgical abuses? Like the 24 hourPerpetual Adoration we have in our parish? You are entitled to your opinions, but I suspect they are not backed yup by any real world experience.

And by the way, the Church must have been wrong for almost half its existence, as that was about how long it took the Church to start having a tabernacle on the main altar.
SACRAMENTUM CARITATIS
OF THE HOLY FATHER
BENEDICT XVI
The location of the tabernacle
69. In considering the importance of eucharistic reservation and adoration, and reverence for the sacrament of Christ’s sacrifice, the Synod of Bishops also discussed the question of the proper placement of the tabernacle in our churches. (196) The correct positioning of the tabernacle contributes to the recognition of Christ’s real presence in the Blessed Sacrament. Therefore, the place where the eucharistic species are reserved, marked by a sanctuary lamp, should be readily visible to everyone entering the church. It is therefore necessary to take into account the building’s architecture: in churches which do not have a Blessed Sacrament chapel, and where the high altar with its tabernacle is still in place, it is appropriate to continue to use this structure for the reservation and adoration of the Eucharist, taking care not to place the celebrant’s chair in front of it. In new churches, it is good to position the Blessed Sacrament chapel close to the sanctuary; where this is not possible, it is preferable to locate the tabernacle in the sanctuary, in a sufficiently elevated place, at the centre of the apse area, or in another place where it will be equally conspicuous. Attention to these considerations will lend dignity to the tabernacle, which must always be cared for, also from an artistic standpoint. Obviously it is necessary to follow the provisions of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal in this regard. (197) In any event, final judgment on these matters belongs to the Diocesan Bishop

AH yes! There is always an out. Leave it up to the bishop.
 
vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20050707_instrlabor-xi-assembly_en.html

41…

Likewise, the positioning of the tabernacle in an easily seen place is another way of attesting to faith in Christ’s Real Presence in the Blessed Sacrament. In this regard, the responses to the Lineamenta request that significant thought be given to the proper location of the tabernacle in Churches, with due attention to canonical norms.65 It is worth considering whether the removal of the tabernacle from the centre of the sanctuary to an obscure, undignified corner or to a separate chapel, or whether to have placed the celebrant’s chair in the centre of the sanctuary or in front of the tabernacle—as was done in many renovations of older churches and in new constructions—has contributed in some way to a decrease in faith in the Real Presence.
 
Uhmm - why can’t a Church have two tabernacles? One for the actual Church so people don’t feel Jesus is put off in the corner and one for the adoration chapel so that people can pray during Mass?

Catholig
Why would one want to pray in the adoration chapel during Mass???

The GREATEST event in Heaven or on earth, the Eternal Banquet is taking place right next door and Christ Himself invites us to it and we want to sit and visit with Him instead!
 
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