Which "Christ" did Islam come into contact with?

[french]

Sorry guys, I had to tune out on my vacation to New Mexico, but I’m back and ironically enough I met a Muslim for the first time on my trip and she explained the Muslim view of God changing Judas to appear as Jesus at the Crucifixion as Christ was sent to start “kicking it with God in Heaven” as she light-heartedly put it. (She was a truly enjoyable person!) I thought about this and came to the same conclusions as Montalban in regards to the documentation itself.

No, that is not an orthodox muslim belief, nor is it in the quran nor in the hadeeths.

Many muslims are divided on Jesus. Early muslims thought that Jesus WAS Crucified, but that His Soul was sent to Heaven. If anyone wants proof for this, ask me and I can get it by tomorrow.

Then, there was the belief of Judas. However, there are many others too. Some believe that a fake Jesus appeared to trick the Jews, etc. There is no main orthodox belief on this.

 

[scapularkid8]

It could have just been that she was explaining it in a watered down way so as not to put anyone off or confuse anyone (we had just met her earlier that day! Also very ironic that Muslim friend of my friend’s name was Khadija!).

Based on what you just responded, I’d say it’s interesting that Muslims cannot agree on the one thing that DISPROVES our religion. If they’re in division over that…it dosen’t make their arguments very strong after that point, however I would still like a Muslim perspective on this.

There is only One Truth, not many. If what they say is the truth, would it not come as something solid, concrete, and uniform…like Catholicism is?

 

[scapularkid8]

Sorry guys, I had to tune out on my vacation to New Mexico, but I’m back and ironically enough I met a Muslim for the first time on my trip and she explained the Muslim view of God changing Judas to appear as Jesus at the Crucifixion as Christ was sent to start “kicking it with God in Heaven” as she light-heartedly put it. (She was a truly enjoyable person!) I thought about this and came to the same conclusions as Montalban in regards to the documentation itself.

Any Muslims willing to respond to this?

(By the way, in my personal opinion, I don’t think God would be petty enough to just move his “favor” from one nation to another over the years like he was humanity’s basketball and we’re trying to “dunk it in” at Jerusalem…logically if God truly encompasses All and is All (YHWH), then would His Infinite Domain, Kingdom, or Dwelling increase to all humanity through salvation history? He wouldn’t need to revert to an Ark of Dwelling if His Infinite Power was resting among His People, who are now the Gentiles and Messianic Jews, who in my opinion, compose the Catholic Church. Any thoughts on this?)

 

[Kadaveri]

From the religion of khadija.

Khadija came from a break off sect of Catholicism that believed that Catholics worshiped the Virgin Mary. They also believed that Jesus was NOT the son of God, nor was Jesus God.

The religion starts with an A and if you want me to look it up, I can ask a few people lol

Khadija was a Pagan, she wasn’t part of any break off sect of Catholicism. I really don’t know where people get stuff like this from.

 

[Scarecrow]

Khadija was a Pagan, she wasn’t part of any break off sect of Catholicism. I really don’t know where people get stuff like this from.

Not from me

 

[inJESUS]

The Catholic/Jewish Christ or the Agnostic Christ? How was their interpretation of Christ formed.

(I am NOT trying to start an argument on the validity of Islam. We all have our opinions of it. I am merely asking this to understand Islams interpretation of the Messiah and how it came about.)

you mean “gnostic”? like “it appeared that he was crucified”?

 

[inJESUS]

Khadija was a Pagan, she wasn’t part of any break off sect of Catholicism. I really don’t know where people get stuff like this from.

Khadija was Waraqa ben Nawfal’s cousin, very far from paganism. .who was waraqa and who was Bahira priest? check the Coptic and syriac traditions : they were heretic christians.

 

[Scarecrow]

heresy is a relative term

in 1283 AUC, the minority religion known as Catholicism splits into 3 factions, all of whom hate each other more than they hate the Romans. Power struggles between the 3 Papacies kill off most of their followers, and a few Romans, as well. The Empire does its best to quell their hatred, but many in the Senate are more than willing to let the Catholics kill themselves.

 

[inJESUS]

There are Ahadith which say so. They first met each other outside the Kaba many years before Muhammad (saaw) received revelation, where Waraqa kissed Muhammad’s head, the next time they met was after Gabriel spoke to Muhammad (saaw) in the cave, and Waraqa died soon after.

muhammad was married to Khadija, Waraqa’s cousin…he was the one who married them and Waraqa used to translate scripture infront of Muhammad and Khadija run to Waraqa for “spiritual” guidance regarding the “spirit” that appeared to Muhammad. This shows that Waraqa was quite influencial on the couple.

I think you’ve got your chronology quite confused, Muhammad’s revelations didn’t die out after Waraqa’s death, they’d only just begun. The only verses that had been revealed at this time were the first five verses of Sura Al-Alaq (which has nothing to do with Jesus (as)).

 

[inJESUS]

Based on Islam’s view of Jesus as a great prophet, but merely a mortal man, it would seem to me that Waraqa was more of an Arian than a Nestorian.

well there was a mixture of heresies and cults surrounding Muhammad in Mecca and Hijaz; he could have formed his religion taking from here ands there. After all didn’t he pick from different apocryphas, legends, rabbinical writing and heretical dogmas in addition to orthodox ones? take for example Jesus’ birth, he got it right yet still denied his incarnation giving no sense to his miraculous birth in the first place. As to his crucifixion, it’s gnostic, relying on the “appearance” of Jesus because Jesus the Messiah should not suffer and die. As to the Holy spirit, he did not explain it because i doubt he understood what it is other than mistakingly thinking it’s an angel ( roots in gnosticism if i remember well)…as to Trinity,he got it all wrong not to mention that he didn’t once mention the Holy Spirit. And he inserted some rabbis words. All in all, he formed his religion based on what he believed to be true or what he thought he understood, ending end mixing all orthodox teachings and taking some legends and apocrypha as the literal word of God…Waraqa and Bahira and Khadija and his nanny all were not pagans…they belonged to a cult, regardless of what it was, it surely wasn’t orthodox. Muhammad did not drop from heaven, he is the son of his surroundings.