Which church is God's true church? Is it the Roman Catholic Church?

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jay29 said:
Wrong answer.

Jesus started His Church on Pentecost, 33 AD.

as well as this beforehand:

Matthew 16:18-19**

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church**, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

You protestants must hate those verses.

I think you have been led astray. That’s not your fault.
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Do you believe that the church of 33 A.D. is identical to the Roman Catholic church of today?
 
Do you believe that the church of 33 A.D. is identical to the Roman Catholic church of today?
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Jesus did not tell us that He would build a ‘static’ church, did He?

The Church of AD 33 was a church made up of men and women who had been mostly Jewish, Greek, or Roman, who were being persecuted by all around them, living when in Judea/Palestine in an ‘occupied’ country, then traveling around to territories in Asia Minor, where most people were not literate. . .where there were no churches to worship in and even to profess a belief in Christ could mean you would be taken and put to a gruesome death. . .

Many ‘externals’ of that church of AD 33 would not be ‘identical’ to today’s Catholic Church–nor indeed to any Protestant Church either. The Church was not meant to stay ‘stuck’ in a time warp; by the nature of preaching the gospel it was meant to grow. Growth will cause all kind of external change as would be expected. However, the internal church: Instituted by Christ, with the keys given to Peter and the Holy Spirit’s guidance to ‘all truth’ as promised by Christ–yes, that remains ‘as it was’ --the growth of the ‘body’ and the understanding brought about by external cultural changes (such as literacy, many areas of relative peace and security, etc.) have deepened the concepts as the Spirit has given us knowledge to understand that deepening–but the core–which is Christ, and thus unchanging and for all ages–remains the same.
 
coyotekate77 said:
Jesus did not tell us that He would build a ‘static’ church, did He?

The Church of AD 33 was a church made up of men and women who had been mostly Jewish, Greek, or Roman, who were being persecuted by all around them, living when in Judea/Palestine in an ‘occupied’ country, then traveling around to territories in Asia Minor, where most people were not literate. . .where there were no churches to worship in and even to profess a belief in Christ could mean you would be taken and put to a gruesome death. . .

Many ‘externals’ of that church of AD 33 would not be ‘identical’ to today’s Catholic Church–nor indeed to any Protestant Church either. The Church was not meant to stay ‘stuck’ in a time warp; by the nature of preaching the gospel it was meant to grow. Growth will cause all kind of external change as would be expected. However, the internal church: Instituted by Christ, with the keys given to Peter and the Holy Spirit’s guidance to ‘all truth’ as promised by Christ–yes, that remains ‘as it was’ --the growth of the ‘body’ and the understanding brought about by external cultural changes (such as literacy, many areas of relative peace and security, etc.) have deepened the concepts as the Spirit has given us knowledge to understand that deepening–but the core–which is Christ, and thus unchanging and for all ages–remains the same.
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So we agree then that the church of 33 and the NT period does not exist in the same form today?
 
justasking4 said:
Do you believe that the church of 33 A.D. is identical to the Roman Catholic church of today?
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The leaders ( powerful men) got to make up all the rules as they went along. The difference with the rules that Catholics make up, from the rules that the Protestants make up, is that they get to claim that all of the rules, rituals and sacred traditions aren’t just the creations of the leadership ( powerful men) but are divinely inspired.
 
So we agree then that the church of 33 and the NT period does not exist in the same form today?
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No, we do not agree. . .the internals --that unchanging and timeless and infallible teaching which the Holy Spirit will guide us to (not ‘introduce’ but guide us to greater understanding, which is why we will never claim that Jesus isn’t ‘really’ the son of God, or that the Eucharist isn’t ‘really’ His Body and Blood, for example) are the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The externals are not–how could they possibly be? Since the church then was made up of the 11 and various people who happened to live in AD 33 and joined, the ‘membership’ was obviously different from the membership of AD 2008 (which differs from that of AD 133, 508, 1333, 1708, etc. etc.) Different people living in the spirit with those famous ‘different gifts but the same spirit --different parts but the same body’ will result in different externals. The Church of AD 33 was concerned with travel to preach (orally) the gospel and not with building worship spaces; the Church of AD 1233 (arguably the century most notable for church building) was concerned with offering to God’s glory the most beautiful of worship spaces for as many of the faithful as possible in which they could preach (still mostly orally as few were literate). Does that mean the Church of 1233 was not the same in its internals of teaching as the church of 33??

I fail to see your point. Are you claiming that because the Catholic Church members no longer wear togas, speak Aramaic/Greek, or use such things as electricity, that somehow that invalidates the Church as it ‘just isn’t exactly like the church of AD 33?’ If you are, please let us all know just which church (apparently the one you attend) not only can trace itself back to that ‘original’ church but itself --in order to be ‘true’ church --is also ‘exactly like’ that Church.
 
Hisalone said:
Of course not. It is very different!!!
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of course not.
it start out with One Man, then 12 and one man. then another 12 and one man(St Peter and the twelve).
then it grew like the mustard seed. today 1.7 billion.

the romans ruled over israel when Jesus came. today, Jesus reigns and rules over rome and whole world. is this amazing or what?
oh! wait a minute maybe i am up to something here. is it not what the jews were waiting for? that the Messiah would be a king and that He would rule over the world?

a prophetic saying maybe by St Ignatius, i am not sure.
“The Church will rule from one city and will reign into all nations.” there you have it.

Peace.
 
wisdomseeker said:
of course not.
it start out with One Man, then 12 and one man. then another 12 and one man(St Peter and the twelve).
then it grew like the mustard seed. today 1.7 billion.

the romans ruled over israel when Jesus came. today, Jesus reigns and rules over rome and whole world. is this amazing or what?
oh! wait a minute maybe i am up to something here. is it not what the jews were waiting for? that the Messiah would be a king and that He would rule over the world?

a prophetic saying maybe by St Ignatius, i am not sure.
“The Church will rule from one city and will reign into all nations.” there you have it.

Peace.
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The first century church was “full gospel” the present day Catholic Church is not. The first century churc had no idols nor statues in their gathering places, present day Catholic Church does. The 1st century church was seperated from the world thepresent day Catholic Chrch is tied to the world and the world syste4m.
 
Hisalone said:
The first century church was “full gospel” the present day Catholic Church is not. The first century churc had no idols nor statues in their gathering places, present day Catholic Church does. The 1st century church was seperated from the world thepresent day Catholic Chrch is tied to the world and the world syste4m.
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oh! the statues. what a beauty. Catholics sure knows how to sculpt statues.

i think you need to stop listen to hagee’s ministries. lest you go down with him.

peace!
 
“The Church will rule from one city and will reign into all nations.” there you have it.
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Hmmm … I think you’re confusing The Lord of the Rings with real life. 😉
 
liberational said:
It was the RCC’s abuses over indulgences and their institutional control over salvation that resulted in the original split.

The RCC does bare some responsibility for the original split.
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From Unitatis Redintegratio:
Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.
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justasking4 said:
So we agree then that the church of 33 and the NT period does not exist in the same form today?
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The Catholic Church today is the same as it was in A.D. 33 but in a different form.

Just like a mustard tree springs from a mustard seed and is totally different from the seed but at the same time is one and the same, so to with the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church of today sprang from the Church of A.D. 33.
 
I Believe that Roman Catholic Church is truely the true Church also! I Believe this because, just like in the Creeds, we are the “holy Catholic and APOSTOLIC church”. This means our church is directly connected to the early church! If you look at the early Church Fathers writings, such as Lactantius, in his writings “The Divine Institutes 4:30 {A.D.304-310})” he is quoted as saying “it is the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship.”
 
Hisalone said:
The first century church was “full gospel” the present day Catholic Church is not. The first century churc had no idols nor statues in their gathering places, present day Catholic Church does.
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Have you forgotten about Acts 19:11-12?

Do you think “Paul’s” hankerchiefs and aprons were thrown away after it cured the sick? Or was it most likely brought back to their gathering place?

How would you have treated one of Paul’s hankerchiefs?

A. Throw it away and forget about the fact that God decided to work miracles through it.
B. Keep it in the gathering place of the congregation
C. Keep it in your own dwelling place for future personal use
 
Hisalone said:
The first century church was “full gospel” the present day Catholic Church is not. The first century churc had no idols nor statues in their gathering places, present day Catholic Church does. The 1st century church was seperated from the world thepresent day Catholic Chrch is tied to the world and the world syste4m.
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If you’re trying to explain to us what you know about Catholicism, you just flunked the written exam.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Which church is God’s true church? Is it the Roman Catholic Church?

I believe that it is the Roman Catholic Church.

What are your thoughts? Please support your opinions with facts. I will provide information, which all goes to support the fact that the Roman Catholic Church is the true Church, founded by Jesus Christ and the Church that God intended for man…

Peace 🙂

Catholic.net - Catholics on the net
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My thoughts? By proxy I could say the Hagia Sophia is the “true” church.

http://www.byzantines.net/byzcathculture/images/hagiasophia_fl.jpg
 
ChristianRoots said:
The Catholic Church today is the same as it was in A.D. 33 but in a different form.

Just like a mustard tree springs from a mustard seed and is totally different from the seed but at the same time is one and the same, so to with the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church of today sprang from the Church of A.D. 33.
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I would agree that the Catholic church can trace it roots to the NT church (just as protestants can via the Catholic church to the NT church). However the Catholic church is not identical to the NT church.
 
justasking4 said:
I would agree that the Catholic church can trace it roots to the NT church (just as protestants can via the Catholic church to the NT church). However the Catholic church is not identical to the NT church.
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There were no Catholics living during New Testament times that adhered to Sola Scriptura, hence no Protestant can traced his theology to that time period.

Sola Scriptura was an impossibility during this time simply because of the process it took to recognize which books were canonical and which were not. It took nearly 500 years for all 27 current NT books to be formally recognized. None of those communities recognized the 27 current books before the late 4th century and many had books they thought to be sacred but never made it into the Bible.

If Sola Scriptura was followed, then all these early communities would have had different belief systems much like the different Protestant denominations do today.

If you agree that the Catholic Church can trace its roots back to NT times, what exactly makes you so sure that it wasn’t identical to the NT Church? Please give me some examples.
 
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