L
Lilyflower
Guest
My emphasis and underlining
…& I have great respect for you where the emphasis in ‘seperated brethren’ is on ‘Brethren’, not 'seperated!
I’l say Amen to that
Blessings and peace
Which church is God's true church? Is it the Roman Catholic Church?
- Status
…& I have great respect for you where the emphasis in ‘seperated brethren’ is on ‘Brethren’, not 'seperated!
I’l say Amen to that
Blessings and peace
W
wisdomseeker
Guest
do you believe in God? can you prove He exists? how?
C
Cinette
Guest
Do you not believe in God and can you prove he doesn’t exist??
:bigyikes:
:bigyikes: :bigyikes: 
J
justasking4
Guest
Yes to all questions. However this is not the topic here.
C
Cinette
Guest
*Hi Everybody!
I was looking at the topic of this thread and thinking about it and yes, I believe with all my heart that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus established. Clearly, history bears this out.
But this is not like a football club. My club is better than yours kind of thing. The Church is there for all of us. We either embrace it or we don’t.
Some people are misguided, others have never become acquainted with the Catholic Church. People are very attached to their own culture which may embrace another Faith and these ties are strong.
There is a word in Portuguese which is"comodista" which in French is commode I suppose but the French word means snug, comfortable. In Portuguese (I don’t have a dictionary here) it means something a little different - more like lazy, although it is distinctive from the word lazy - it is not quite lazy. Why make the effort when I am so comfortable… I suppose. And so I think of this word in relation to what I believe some people’s attitude is in regard to religion. "My Great Grandfather, Grandfather, Father were all Baptists and thats where I feel comfortable so that is where I will remain! " That kind of attitude means that the person will not make the effort to seek the fullness of truth. The same attitude is prevalent in the CC. People do not make the effort to dig and find out more. Because if they did they would find a greater happiness and peace. They will come to understand life more. They will develop themselves.
We need to be adventurous and investigate. “…Seek and you shall find…” We need to develop a personal relationship with Christ if we are to grow spiritually. Read and reread the Bible - there is always more. You will read a passage 100 times and still find more when you read it again.
Thank you for your time.
:yup:
I was looking at the topic of this thread and thinking about it and yes, I believe with all my heart that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus established. Clearly, history bears this out.
But this is not like a football club. My club is better than yours kind of thing. The Church is there for all of us. We either embrace it or we don’t.
Some people are misguided, others have never become acquainted with the Catholic Church. People are very attached to their own culture which may embrace another Faith and these ties are strong.
There is a word in Portuguese which is"comodista" which in French is commode I suppose but the French word means snug, comfortable. In Portuguese (I don’t have a dictionary here) it means something a little different - more like lazy, although it is distinctive from the word lazy - it is not quite lazy. Why make the effort when I am so comfortable… I suppose. And so I think of this word in relation to what I believe some people’s attitude is in regard to religion. "My Great Grandfather, Grandfather, Father were all Baptists and thats where I feel comfortable so that is where I will remain! " That kind of attitude means that the person will not make the effort to seek the fullness of truth. The same attitude is prevalent in the CC. People do not make the effort to dig and find out more. Because if they did they would find a greater happiness and peace. They will come to understand life more. They will develop themselves.
We need to be adventurous and investigate. “…Seek and you shall find…” We need to develop a personal relationship with Christ if we are to grow spiritually. Read and reread the Bible - there is always more. You will read a passage 100 times and still find more when you read it again.
Thank you for your time.
:yup:
J
justasking4
Guest
If i’m so wrong and blinded as you claim, can you show in Scripture where Peter is shown as the Vicar of Christ?
S
sola_scriptura
Guest
Hey Cinette:*Hi Everybody!
I was looking at the topic of this thread and thinking about it and yes, I believe with all my heart that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus established. Clearly, history bears this out.
But this is not like a football club. My club is better than yours kind of thing. The Church is there for all of us. We either embrace it or we don’t.
Some people are misguided, others have never become acquainted with the Catholic Church. People are very attached to their own culture which may embrace another Faith and these ties are strong.
There is a word in Portuguese which is"comodista" which in French is commode I suppose but the French word means snug, comfortable. In Portuguese (I don’t have a dictionary here) it means something a little different - more like lazy, although it is distinctive from the word lazy - it is not quite lazy. Why make the effort when I am so comfortable… I suppose. And so I think of this word in relation to what I believe some people’s attitude is in regard to religion. "My Great Grandfather, Grandfather, Father were all Baptists and thats where I feel comfortable so that is where I will remain! " That kind of attitude means that the person will not make the effort to seek the fullness of truth. The same attitude is prevalent in the CC. People do not make the effort to dig and find out more. Because if they did they would find a greater happiness and peace. They will come to understand life more. They will develop themselves.
We need to be adventurous and investigate. “…Seek and you shall find…” We need to develop a personal relationship with Christ if we are to grow spiritually. Read and reread the Bible - there is always more. You will read a passage 100 times and still find more when you read it again.
Thank you for your time.
:yup:
Indeed – and after they do all that they will inevitably discover the Presbyterian Church
T
TriuneUnity
Guest
And promptly fall asleepHey Cinette:
Indeed – and after they do all that they will inevitably discover the Presbyterian Church
hahaha
S
sola_scriptura
Guest
Oh come on Truine … that’s harsh
Actually I attend an evangelical Presbyterian church & I gotta say our pastor is outstanding. Hey, we even sing … but most of the service is scripture and sermon. Of course as providence would have it – we talk quite a bit about – well – divine providence
I admit though it isn’t the fire & brimstone of a John Hague sermon (whatever one might think of Pastor Hague the guy can give a sermon).
T
TriuneUnity
Guest
LOL sorry.Oh come on Truine … that’s harsh
I hate contemporary worship, to be honest. I go to an OPC service every now and again because I am good friends with the pastor. I actually like it very much. It’s sparse and simplistic but the sermon is great and overall is a very moving experience in the right context. It’s certainly biblical.Actually I attend an evangelical Presbyterian church & I gotta say our pastor is outstanding. Hey, we even sing … but most of the service is scripture and sermon. Of course as providence would have it – we talk quite a bit about – well – divine providence
L
Lilyflower
Guest
**Jn 21: 16-17
Christ bids Peter alone to look after the sheepfold.**
You quote Scripture as if it were the only source of information. How do you suppose the Church managed before they were canonised?
Why did Peter’s disciple Clement though only a Bishop assume a patriarchal responsibility in rebuking the Christians of Antioch who had deposed their Bishop? He instructed them to reinstate their Bishop or be exommunicate. They did has he told them and the rest is history.
St Paul himself bids the Church 'to hold fast to the traditions of the Apostles 2 Thessalonians 2:15:. But you would contradict Paul and say that actually, tradition has no role to play, only Scripture. Paul tells the Thessalonian church that to hold fast the traditions, therefore, this proves that Paul told them to hold fast to unwritten things, thereby disproving Sola Scriptura.
The Church was before anything much was committed to text and before Mark [or the author of Mark]. The Scriptures then support the teachings and traditions of the Apostles of the Church of Christ and not the other way around.
Tell me why it is you do not believe a word the CC says but you believe every word she canonised in her Sacred Book?
Blessings and peace
.
S
sola_scriptura
Guest
Honestly the reformed tradition has not always been a good place to find contemporary worship practices (in fact in the Orthodox Presbyterian church it is not practiced, only very traditional Scottish hymns). However, we have adopted them to a small degree. Frankly our services are like two hours long. We have a full sermon (thankfully our pastor is good – or it would be a long two hours) – but we incorporate some song (very good songs always focused on providence).
However, we are in communion with the Orthodox branch – because we are both conservative in our approach (and remain in strict accord with the pastoral epistles).
That being said I wouldn’t mind a choir!
T
TriuneUnity
Guest
Ha, Reformed and Lutheran both. We just don’t do well trying not to be Reformed or Lutheran.
C
Cinette
Guest
Reading the posts reminded me of something.
Years ago I lived in the old Portuguese Colony of Mocambique in the city of Lourenco Marques. My family was dead against the fascist government of Portugal and sympathised with communism.
After the revolution we discovered just what communism actually represented. We had a number of communist friends who had suffered for their beliefs. They were jailed and some spent time in solitary confinement. They cared very much for the underdog and were prepared to suffer for the cause. They were also athiests.
After the revolution they used to gather for coffee and discussions at a coffee shop. There were dinners, talks, etc. - a lot of discussions and intellectual debates. However when we saw just how bad the communists were because the government was taking measures which were not at all fair or democratic, I remember my Father in Law admitting, “And to think that I believe in this ideology!” One friend in particular would often come over to the house and would tell us of some of the terrible things that were going on - yet, he never abdicated from his position, he continued to be Communist!! Then it hit me - of course, if he were to change his position he could no longer meet for coffee with the boys, he would no longer be part of the group…!!
And so I think this applies also to certain (not all) people from other Christian religions. It takes courage to change. One has to give up friendships and family. One will have to say goodbye to the parishioners of their church who are friendly and good and for whom they have great affection.
Yes, change can be very painful. and it takes courage to take that big step.
:yup:
Years ago I lived in the old Portuguese Colony of Mocambique in the city of Lourenco Marques. My family was dead against the fascist government of Portugal and sympathised with communism.
After the revolution we discovered just what communism actually represented. We had a number of communist friends who had suffered for their beliefs. They were jailed and some spent time in solitary confinement. They cared very much for the underdog and were prepared to suffer for the cause. They were also athiests.
After the revolution they used to gather for coffee and discussions at a coffee shop. There were dinners, talks, etc. - a lot of discussions and intellectual debates. However when we saw just how bad the communists were because the government was taking measures which were not at all fair or democratic, I remember my Father in Law admitting, “And to think that I believe in this ideology!” One friend in particular would often come over to the house and would tell us of some of the terrible things that were going on - yet, he never abdicated from his position, he continued to be Communist!! Then it hit me - of course, if he were to change his position he could no longer meet for coffee with the boys, he would no longer be part of the group…!!
And so I think this applies also to certain (not all) people from other Christian religions. It takes courage to change. One has to give up friendships and family. One will have to say goodbye to the parishioners of their church who are friendly and good and for whom they have great affection.
Yes, change can be very painful. and it takes courage to take that big step.
:yup:
J
justasking4
Guest
What then of the other apostles? Did they have an equal responsibilty to feed the sheep and help build the church? Did they look at Peter as the supreme leader of the entire church?
It is the only source we have on Peter and the apostles.
One church giving direction or advice to another church is not the same to say the individual who is doing so has universal leadership of the entire church. To show that you must also show that all other churches or most did acknowledge that Clement was indeed the supreme leader of the entire church. Can you do that for anyone in the first couple of centruies?
What specific “traditions” is Paul referring to here?
The OT Scriptures precedes the church for one. The oral teachings of Christ precede the church. These teachings evenually came to be written down.
I did not say i don’t believe everything the CC says.
M
MDK
Guest
Very good start, but you didn’t finish the sentence… please let me help.Hey Cinette:
Indeed – and after they do all that they will inevitably discover the Presbyterian Church
… and after they do all that, they will inevitably discover the Presbyterian church was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560, and was not built by Christ who established His Church in 33 AD which later became known as Catholic Church. Unlike the Presbyterian Church founded by a man, Christ promised that the Church he built, the Catholic Church will not teach error in faith and morals, and He will protect it until the end of time.
See, we can work as a team!
S
sola_scriptura
Guest
God will protect the entire church, all Christians, along with the visible church (congregations, including Catholic & all others).
It’s like a divine checks and balances system (did I just coin a new theological theory)
Unity will happen at the end when the earthly churches are replaced by the New Jerusalem, the coming kingdom (see Rev. 21, Gal. 4) – until then man cannot be trusted with absolute power, because it corrupts absolutely.
Christ didn’t stop working at His death. He is still guiding the faithful. He didn’t hand the reins over to the Romans and stop working for us. When God saw the abuses in the Roman church He reached down and used Luther to correct it (I admit – God sometimes chooses peculiar people to do His work). Whatever can be said about Luther imagine if he never existed?
The reformation gave this world so much. Imagine – we might still have guys like Johann Tetzel running around charging us money to free grandma from purgatory. Luther even compelled Rome to reform, making the RCC a better church. What would have become of science, would the English ever have colonized the new world, would we have ever had an enlightenment and men like John Locke and Adam Smith …
I doubt it. The fruits of the reformation and enlightenment are still paying dividends for this world. Because of America communism fell, the Nazi’s defeated, and economic prosperity is spreading throughout the world. Soon religious freedom will reach all corners of this globe and inevitably Jesus’ name will be praised in all nations. God is great!
J
justasking4
Guest
Your statement that “he Catholic Church will not teach error in faith and morals” cannot be supported. One such example is
where Galileo was summoned to Rome by the Inquisition to stand trial for “grave suspicion of heresy.” There is no doubt that the church was in error. It was a matter of faith otherwise he would not have been on trial and imprisoned for heresy.
How can we when the Catholic church has offically condemned protestants and has never been offically rescinded. (see Trent) and were considered now to separated brethren?
C
Cinette
Guest
Hi SolaGod will protect the entire church, all Christians, along with the visible church (congregations, including Catholic & all others).
It’s like a divine checks and balances system (did I just coin a new theological theory)
Unity will happen at the end when the earthly churches are replaced by the New Jerusalem, the coming kingdom (see Rev. 21, Gal. 4) – until then man cannot be trusted with absolute power, because it corrupts absolutely.
Christ didn’t stop working at His death. He is still guiding the faithful. He didn’t hand the reins over to the Romans and stop working for us. When God saw the abuses in the Roman church He reached down and used Luther to correct it (I admit – God sometimes chooses peculiar people to do His work). Whatever can be said about Luther imagine if he never existed?
The reformation gave this world so much. Imagine – we might still have guys like Johann Tetzel running around charging us money to free grandma from purgatory. Luther even compelled Rome to reform, making the RCC a better church. What would have become of science, would the English ever have colonized the new world, would we have ever had an enlightenment and men like John Locke and Adam Smith …
I doubt it. The fruits of the reformation and enlightenment are still paying dividends for this world. Because of America communism fell, the Nazi’s defeated, and economic prosperity is spreading throughout the world. Soon religious freedom will reach all corners of this globe and inevitably Jesus’ name will be praised in all nations. God is great!
Jesus did reassure us he would send the Holy Spirit and would be with us til the end of time. We stumble and fall and He help us to get up again. We Catholics believe that the Pope and the Magisterium is there to steer the boat. He is your Pope too even thought you may not recognise him as such.
S
sola_scriptura
Guest
I’m still confused over this – because the language of Vatican II seems to abrogate this condemnation?
- Status