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MDK
Guest
Teaching you about God’s truth, even though you deny it and twist it.
Which church is God's true church? Is it the Roman Catholic Church?
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justasking4
Guest
We don’t know if he was. What we do know from I Timothy 3 that he mandated a man be married as a criteria for leadership.
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coyotekate77
Guest
No, he did not. That would be tantamount to insisting that if a person wished to be a bishop that he would HAVE to marry even if he did not feel called to the married state.
What St. Paul said was that a bishop, if married, must have only one wife–not, as would have been if not common at least not unknown for the times–to have more than one through having divorced one wife and married another. As you know from Scriptures, the Pharisees had taught for some centuries that Moses permitted divorce. But Jesus did not teach this. And that is why St. Paul reminded the people, that those in authority must abide by Christ’s teachings, which do not permit divorce.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
did St Paul commanded all to be married?
did Jesus commanded all to be married? show me where in Bible?
J4 how long have you been here asking the same question? what do you want us to do for you? we can make you have faith. and we cannot make you believe. you seem very confused. you want to believe but you cannot. tell us your real story. Please.
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MDK
Guest
Try 299, I asked you for agreement to dispense with the false requirement before proceeding. Go back and read, and please respond if you want possible further dialogue.
Please note that our responses are from freedom of will, not of obligation. It’s possible that I won’t respond to everything, because I have more to life than this. For instance, I have a commitment to my wife, to spend time with her as well.
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justasking4
Guest
No. In regards to church leadership it was criteria that would help to determine if a man would be a good leader.
No. However Jesus never disqualified anyone from following Him because they were married. In fact He did not disqualify Peter from being an apostle because we have good reason to think he was married.
These questions are off topic… sorry:shrug:
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wisdomseeker
Guest
**QUOTE=justasking4;4005777]No. In regards to church leadership it was criteria that would help to determine if a man would be a good leader. **
So good leadership is measured by marriage. are all the leaders of the protestants churches considered good leaders? did you see the news lately? about the preacher who killed his wife then put her in the freezer and was having relations with his daughter.
Now i know that to be a president of a country one is more less required to be married. but since the CC is not a country neither an institution made by man, your notion that all must be married fall to pieces.
Stop . the Church is not a business institution like protestants congregations are.
**No. However Jesus never disqualified anyone from following Him because they were married. In fact He did not disqualify Peter from being an apostle because we have good reason to think he was married. **
like i said before you getting even more confused. have you read Rev. 14. this is about man chosen by God who was never defied by women.
These questions are off topic… sorry:shrug:
i tell you what. why dont you spend more time in search for the Truth instead of waisting time trying to disprove it. it is clear to us you have not find Truth yet. stop with your opinions and let God speak.
Peace.
So good leadership is measured by marriage. are all the leaders of the protestants churches considered good leaders? did you see the news lately? about the preacher who killed his wife then put her in the freezer and was having relations with his daughter.
Now i know that to be a president of a country one is more less required to be married. but since the CC is not a country neither an institution made by man, your notion that all must be married fall to pieces.
Stop . the Church is not a business institution like protestants congregations are.
**No. However Jesus never disqualified anyone from following Him because they were married. In fact He did not disqualify Peter from being an apostle because we have good reason to think he was married. **
like i said before you getting even more confused. have you read Rev. 14. this is about man chosen by God who was never defied by women.
These questions are off topic… sorry:shrug:
i tell you what. why dont you spend more time in search for the Truth instead of waisting time trying to disprove it. it is clear to us you have not find Truth yet. stop with your opinions and let God speak.
Peace.
J
justasking4
Guest
Yes…
Probalbly not.
That’s pretty disgusting. Such a man would flunk the test of a true leader in the church on this alone.
Not so. Go back reread I Timothy 3. Remember this is the Word of God in which no man or instution has no authority to over-rule.
In some ways it is.
The way you have responded here forces me to stay. Its not a waste of time. If you want to know what God speaks, study the Scriptures. It is there you will find Him speaking and speaking clearly.
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justasking4
Guest
I didn’t say it was a requirement. However, we do need to some evidence that Linus and those after him for the next couple of centuries did have some authority over all the other churches. Is there any evidence that Linus did and if so what was it?
He is the Vicar of Christ ie. A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. Supreme leader does apply here.
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guanophore
Guest
I am just amazed that you can read Paul’s writings in reference to his own celibacy, and still not “know” that he lived that way.
No. Leadership is not equated with bishopric, and Timothy choosing people whose house is in order does not preclude persons such as Paul himself, who are celibate.
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justasking4
Guest
Do you know with any certainity that he was never married?
Of course he lays out in I Timothy 3 that a man who is married and manages his children well is one of the criterias that the church is to use to determine if such a man would be a good leader.
What we also know is that celibacy was never a criteria for church leadership.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
**
ok J4. present to me evidence in the Bible that each individual must enterpret the Word of God for himself.
peace.
**
ok J4. present to me evidence in the Bible that each individual must enterpret the Word of God for himself.
peace.
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guanophore
Guest
If you wish to start your own Church with a rule that all the leadership must be married, you are free do to so. God knows dozens have done so already! There is no need for you to try to attempt it here at CAF. We understand the scripture differently.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
how would you know that? were you there? or you dont think they spoke in secret? i know the Church was there.
if you came here to learn something we are more than happy to teach you, but if you came here to teach us your faulty understand of SS you are most likely to be waisting your time. you make us tired.
remember this: SS, OT, Magisterium… not one Bible alone. you see we have more to give you than you have to give us.
J4. Bible alone does not work here. get that through your head.
peace.
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justasking4
Guest
I could write pages on this. Look at the sermon on the mount in Matthew 5-7. Jesus is teaching the people in a way that they can understand what He is teaching. They must interpret what He is teaching so that they can understand and will be held accountable for it.
Paul in Colossians 3:16 speaks of having the word of Christ to richly dwell in us. To do that you must interpret and understand the words of Christ.
The book of Proverbs also speaks of wisdom that we are to pursue.
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coyotekate77
Guest
So now the bishop not only has to be married but he also ‘has to manage his children well’, eh?
So much for a poor man if he gets married and for some reason they have no children. No bishopric for you, sir!
Or heaven forbid that after years of managing his children ‘well’, one of them goes ‘off’, perhaps when said bishop is 70 and son is 50. Take that bishopric away, sir! Your son is no longer well managed–therefore, you have forfeited your ‘leadership role’ and been found wanting.
Good grief.
You see what happens when people take Scripture and interpret it for themselves without considering context, history, etc. They come up with completely false notions of what they think the text says. Another good reason why St. Peter warned us about not ‘personally interpreting’ Scripture but instead to seek authority. All these ‘churches’ of “me and Jesus” based on what one person ‘interprets’ from Scripture and thinks must be authoritative because, hey, I’m tight with Jesus, I know I am, and He must be leading me because I just feel I’m right. . .heck, I know I’m right because what I think doesn’t agree with Catholics and god knows the one constant in the universe is that whatever a Catholic thinks is wrong, wrong, wrong. . . .
So much for a poor man if he gets married and for some reason they have no children. No bishopric for you, sir!
Or heaven forbid that after years of managing his children ‘well’, one of them goes ‘off’, perhaps when said bishop is 70 and son is 50. Take that bishopric away, sir! Your son is no longer well managed–therefore, you have forfeited your ‘leadership role’ and been found wanting.
Good grief.
You see what happens when people take Scripture and interpret it for themselves without considering context, history, etc. They come up with completely false notions of what they think the text says. Another good reason why St. Peter warned us about not ‘personally interpreting’ Scripture but instead to seek authority. All these ‘churches’ of “me and Jesus” based on what one person ‘interprets’ from Scripture and thinks must be authoritative because, hey, I’m tight with Jesus, I know I am, and He must be leading me because I just feel I’m right. . .heck, I know I’m right because what I think doesn’t agree with Catholics and god knows the one constant in the universe is that whatever a Catholic thinks is wrong, wrong, wrong. . . .
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wisdomseeker
Guest
none of these says we must enterpret SS for ourselves. we can achieve this by hearing the Word and not enterpret it.
now J4. present to me evidence that each individual must enterpret SS for themselves.
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guanophore
Guest
No, ja4. you are being disingenuous. you don’t need any such thing. You have said that you don’t believe in the Apostolic succession, or the Papacy.
It is clear that your goal is to get catholics to agree with you.
I agree. What does NOT apply is the secular notions that you like to impose. The Petrine gift is about confirmation and shepherding.
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nsper7
Guest
I would answer with what the Nicene Creed says: there is ‘One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church’. That is the church founded by Christ. Unlike certain Protestants, I do believe and hope that Roman Catholics are a part of the OHCAC (or simply Catholic [Universal] Church), and the same goes for the Eastern Orthodox, mainstream Protestantism, and my fellow Anglicans.Which church is God’s true church? Is it the Roman Catholic Church?
I believe that it is the Roman Catholic Church.
What are your thoughts? Please support your opinions with facts. I will provide information, which all goes to support the fact that the Roman Catholic Church is the true Church, founded by Jesus Christ and the Church that God intended for man…
Peace
http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Image_Bank/Basilica.gif
As I have mentioned in another thread (A Lament for Anglicanism), I do believe the Pope has a role in the larger and harder-to-define Catholic (Universal) Church, specifically as Bishop of Rome (please note that Anglicanism recognizes the validity of RC Holy Orders and the role of the Pope as Bishop of Rome) and, possibly, Primate of Italy and Patriarchate of the West. Thus, Il Papa is not just a Roman Catholic figure, but a truly Catholic figure (and the ‘founder’ of the Anglican Communion).
Thus, to put it simply, the Church Christ founded is the ‘One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church’ (or Catholic [Universal] Church) made up of all Believers/Christians regardless of their denomination, Rite, sect, etc.
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