Which Church teachings do you struggle to accept?

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Because the decision to divorce is most often not ‘mutual’.

As one who was on the receiving end of a unilateral decision to end a marriage I can assure you that “state with a straight face that the marriage was invalid” is a pretty inaccurate statement. There is confusion and pain and the annulment process was a great part of healing. Even if the marriage was deemed invalid I would guess that in the majority of cases that one spouse did not think it was at the time.

The simple fact that one spouse files for divorce indicates that the ‘intent’ of marriage (in the proper and beautiful Catholic sense) was likely not there to begin with.

The church has reached out in recent times to extend her mercy to the divorced. Having a chance to have a proper marriage blessed with children is a gift.
To be fair, the example I presented (a true case), it was the one ended the marriage (unilaterally) who sought the annulment. And of course it seems the opposite is true in your case. I do agree that there are indeed valid cases.

I am curious though, what happens to someone who is denied an annulment (for whatever reason) and has become remarried. Since that marriage is not valid in the eyes of the church, do you keep sinning if you stay together? I am not talking about communion etc…that part I understand. But how will a couple rectify it.
 
Exactly.
But it does not mean it never happened, which is what some people take it to mean. Which is why some catholics are annoyed when non-catholics considered you a divorce`(e).
Annulments normally follow a divorce, as procedurally, the legal bond / marriage framework needs to be ended.
 
That unbaptized innocents (babies, small children, special needs individuals) who die without baptism might not make it to heaven, but a baptized serial killer who repents on his deathbed can?!?!

That all people who die in mortal sin are in hell.
Same here. I stand firm in these doctrines, but sometimes I just wish that things were made different in this regard. Not to make my Cross any less heavier, but to have more brothers and sisters in faith with whoever is saved in Heaven. 🙂
 
The simple fact that one spouse files for divorce indicates that the ‘intent’ of marriage (in the proper and beautiful Catholic sense) was likely not there to begin with.
So the annulment is a done deal if the couple get divorced?
 
It’s that simple. How can anybody question this simple truth?
Because a divorce is required before the tribunal considers the annulment. But once the divorce has been granted, the annulment is a done deal in the overwhelming majority of cases in the USA. Operationally, whether it is a divorce or an annulment, the result for the children is the same - the husband and wife are separated and free to remarry someone else. I don;t see where it makes any difference to the children whether the parents get a divorce or an annulment.
Also keep in mind that a high ranking Roman Catholic clergyman has said that he considers an annulment to be a divorce in a Catholic way, in a dishonest way.

americamagazine.org/content/all-things/cardinal-kasper-some-fear-domino-effect-synod-family
 
To be fair, the example I presented (a true case), it was the one ended the marriage (unilaterally) who sought the annulment. And of course it seems the opposite is true in your case. I do agree that there are indeed valid cases.

I am curious though, what happens to someone who is denied an annulment (for whatever reason) and has become remarried. Since that marriage is not valid in the eyes of the church, do you keep sinning if you stay together? I am not talking about communion etc…that part I understand. But how will a couple rectify it.
I doubt very many people are denied these days, but it must happen…
Someone on here must have stats on this subject. I have wondered about that from time to time.

Yes, you keep sinning if you ‘stay together’ (sex). But, if the parties are serious about their faith and salvation, then they must agree to live platonically. Tough cross to bear indeed.

I did not make the unilateral decision to end the first marriage, but I sought out the annulment.

How they would rectify the situation is to bear the cross in union with the Lord, and wait patiently for the first spouse to die I guess.
 
So the annulment is a done deal if the couple get divorced?
Not really. Marriages end for a host of reasons (symptoms). The root cause (disease) can usually be found during the annulment process if done with due diligence. Those causes are the grounds for annulments being granted or denied.
 
Because a divorce is required before the tribunal considers the annulment. But once the divorce has been granted, the annulment is a done deal in the overwhelming majority of cases in the USA. Operationally, whether it is a divorce or an annulment, the result for the children is the same - the husband and wife are separated and free to remarry someone else. I don;t see where it makes any difference to the children whether the parents get a divorce or an annulment.
Also keep in mind that a high ranking Roman Catholic clergyman has said that he considers an annulment to be a divorce in a Catholic way, in a dishonest way.

americamagazine.org/content/all-things/cardinal-kasper-some-fear-domino-effect-synod-family
Do you have figures for the % of divorced Catholics where the marriage has not been annulled (annulment rejected + tribunal process not initiated). If you only look at success rates at the tribunal, you fail to see the cases not of sufficient merit to get to the tribunal process.
 
First, as the Catholic Church has given us the Sacred Scriptures as the Word of God and She has been created by Jesus of Nazareth to lead us to and to teach us all truth “questioning”, as meaning that She is in error, is fanciful. The Sacred Scriptures condemn contraception, and explain the foundation by Jesus of His Church and no other.

From Fr John A Hardon, S.J.
CONTRACEPTION. Deliberate interference with marital intercourse in order to prevent conception. It is the performance of the marriage act with the positive frustration of conception. Also called conjugal onanism, from the sin of Onan, referred to in the Bible (Genesis 38:8-10);
therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl
That was because onan did nit fulfill his duties to hus deceased brothers wife as was jewish law at that time. It obviously does not apply in this day and age.
 
That was because onan did nit fulfill his duties to hus deceased brothers wife as was jewish law at that time. It obviously does not apply in this day and age.
Such would no be a complete reading of the matter.

And the moral Teaching regarding Contraception applies today.

As it has since the early Church…(and to boot even Protestants for hundreds of years since their beginning held that such was evil…)

But I do not have the time to get into all that - one can find articles on Catholic Answers that address these various questions.
 
Such would no be a complete reading of the matter.

And the moral Teaching regarding Contraception applies today.

As it has since the early Church…(and to boot even Protestants for hundreds of years since their beginning held that such was evil…)

But I do not have the time to get into all that - one can find articles on Catholic Answers that address these various questions.
Yes I have read all the articles about the evils of contraception, but I dont agree and lets face most catholics dont either.
 
The issue I had the hardest time accepting actually does not affect me personally. This issue is artificial birth control and how it is forbidden even in cases when the pregnancy endangers a woman’s life.

I read Theology of the Body and it helped me understand the Church’s stance a lot better. It also helped me understand the fruit that grew out of the contraceptive mentality.
 
Yes I have read all the articles about the evils of contraception, but I dont agree
Lots of information on Catholic Answers main site when you search “Contraception”
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And not agreeing that the earth is on the round side of shapes…does not make it not so…
 
Lots of information on Catholic Answers main site when you search “Contraception”
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And not agreeing that the earth is on the round side of shapes…does not make it not so…
As I said I have read countless articles, no one seems to acknowledge the fact that the majority of catholics ignore this teaching. If priests decided not to let all who b ignore it recieve the eucharist there would be a very short queue.
 
acknowledge the fact that the majority of catholics ignore this teaching…
Right cause one survey or another or even another - is just that. Not a counting of all Catholics…

How many “surveys” are done about who will win an election!!??

And that person the majority said they voted for – looses…

Such would be an example of the line “statistics lie”.

And even if it should ever happen in the future?

What then?

Even if the majority of persons on this earth thought abortion was good?

Does that make it so?

Even if the majority of persons on this earth thought the earth was flat?

Does that make it so?

Even if the majority of persons on this earth thought infanticide is good?

Does that make it so?

Even if the majority of persons on this earth thought contraception was good?

Does that make it so?

Even if the majority of persons on this earth thought cheating on tests was good?

Does that make it so?

Even if the majority of person on this earth thought theft was good?

Does that make it so?

“Truth is not determined by a majority vote”

~ Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI)
 
Lots of information on Catholic Answers main site when you search “Contraception”
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And not agreeing that the earth is on the round side of shapes…does not make it not so…
As I said I have read countless articles, no one seems to acknowledge the fact that the majority of catholics ignore this teaching. If priests decided not to let all who b ignore it recieve the eucharist there would be a very short queue.
 
Regarding the annulment issue:

I think there is a big difference between people who are concerned that the annulment process is subject to abuse in some way, and people who actually struggle to accept the theology behind it. The two issues tend to get confused a lot, from what I have seen. I think most Catholics accept the theology, but many find its application to be in error, or “corrupt” in some way.

And BTW, shady annulments are actually NOT completely new. Many of the royal marriage annulments in the medieval/Renaissance era were based on rather flimsy rationales, mostly to do with degrees of consanguinity or the interpretations of prior betrothals as prior bonds. Hence why many Anglicans state that the Church denying an annulment to Henry VIII was all about politics, not principle.

It doesn’t help that a lot of secular approaches to history blur the line between annulment and divorce; until I started to explore Catholcism, I myself was under the impression that Henry VIII wanted to divorce Queen Isabella, and that the split with the Church was over whether divorce was acceptable.

I’ve also read accounts of King John of England (the one popularly termed the “worst King ever”) and his marriages, that state he “divorced” or “set aside” his first wife, Isabel of Gloucester, so that he could marry the young (and rich) Isabella of Angeloume. Now, the “real story” is pretty icky anyway, Isabella was very young at the time of the marriage, some think only 9 or 10 years old, yet it’s pretty obvious it was consummated. :eek: But he didn’t actually divorce his first queen, he claimed his first marriage was invalid because Isabel was his cousin, and he didn’t get a proper dispensation to marry her.

Apparently, John did actually love her, he had many mistresses while married to his first wife, but none after he married Isabella (there are rumors he may have strayed once in a while, but he had no public, “official” mistresses).

Now, was this annulment questionable? Did he put pressure on the Church to grant him the annulment? Most likely, yes. But that doesn’t make the whole theology of annulment invalid. One could also argue that the real corruption was not in the granting of annulments, but in allowing royals to marry in shady circumstances that left the possibility of annulment open to them.

I’ve also noticed that many Catholics (as well as non-Catholics) who oppose capital punishment do so chiefly out of concern that the process is subject to abuse, not because they think capital punishment is inherently evil – and actually, I understand that the Church does NOT teach that anyway.

It seems many people who oppose the death penalty do so because of a perception that the legal process in general is subject to error, bias, or even outright corruption, but if a theoretical all-knowing perfect judge was to mete out the punishment, this would be legitimate (and indeed, there are many instances in the Bible where God Himself did strike people down).
 
no one seems to acknowledge the fact that the majority of catholics ignore this teaching…
One survey or another or even another 3 - is just that. "a survey’

It is Not a counting of all Catholics…

How many “surveys” are done about who will win an election!!??

And that person the majority said they voted for – looses…

Such would be an example of the line “statistics lie”.
*
And even if it should ever happen in the future?*

What then?

Even if the majority of persons on this earth thought the earth was flat?

Does that make it so?

Even if the majority of persons on this earth thought infanticide is good?

Does that make it so?

Even if the majority of persons on this earth thought contraception was good?

Does that make it so?

Even if the majority of person on this earth thought theft was good?

Does that make it so?

“Truth is not determined by a majority vote”

~ Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI)
 
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