Which Church teachings do you struggle to accept?

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Here is a link to an article concerning contraception I posted on another thread:americamagazine.org/issue/100/humanae-vitae-25-years-later

It was written written in 1993, 25 years after the Humanae Vitae came out.
Make sure to read the comments as well. It was highly controversial back in 1968. It probably got less controversial over time because the majority of Catholics in First World countries simply ignore it.

Any comments?
Does the Church teach in the name of God? Yes, or no? If Yes, the debate collapses to one of persuasion and authority, and not whether what is taught is right. If no, then the role of the Church and the mandate given it by Jesus need to be re-evaluated - that would be the real issue here.

I didn’t find the Comments particularly illuminating.

The writer of the first comment appears to be confused. He concludes that NFP leads to sex being “non-pro-creative”…a feat he achieves (it appears) simply by having the wrong understanding of the word “pro-creative”. 🤷

Another commenter declares that “Intent” is the key to determining morality - in that statement he denies the entire basis of the Church’s moral theology.
 
Hans W #391
Humanae Vitae ……was highly controversial back in 1968. It probably got less controversial over time because the majority of Catholics in First World countries simply ignore it.
Here is a link to an article concerning contraception I posted on another thread:americamagazine.org/issue/100…25-years-later
Such an article fits with the confusion expressed already by him.

The author, Richard A. McCormick, S.J., is noted for his dissent, and theologians like Charles Curran and Richard McCormick also embrace “pluralism” on the issues of premarital sex and homosexual acts.

The attempt by many intellectuals and theologians since Vatican II to declare independence from the Magisterium, “with the logical result that professor poses as pope, represents the crux of the confusion in the minds of believers about the meaning of their religion in the modern world.” Fr James V Schall, S.J., concludes: “The result of no real orthodoxy is a skepticism and usually a counter-orthodoxy.” Distinctiveness of Christianity, Ignatius Press, p 176].

The need for clear, decisive papal ex cathedra definitions of immutable doctrine such as in Casti Connubii occur when, new grave situations challenge the OUM teaching as no one or group has the authority from Christ as that of the Supreme Pontiff who has to confirm the teaching of Ecumenical Councils. Such a challenge arose with the first breakdown of the consensus against contraception among Protestants by the Anglicans at Lambeth in 1930.

The challenge of “the Pill” required the next ex cathedra decisive reiteration which exposed the laxity, and/or infidelity, of the majority of the papal commission, and brought down the wrath of a multitude of dissenting theologians – those fancying an “alternative magisterium”.

Despite his orthodox and brilliant defence of the Church and conscience prior to Vatican II, the depth of Rahner’s dissent became an engulfing tide when he chose to publicly dissent against the infallible doctrine against contraception in Pope Paul VI’s Humanae Vitae, in 1968, from which he never recovered.

This was most obvious in the betrayal by Karl Rahner, Charles Curran, Richard McCormick, Richard McBrien, Edward Schillebeeckx, Raymond Brown, Francis Sullivan, Donald B Cozzens, Richard Rohr and so many others, following Humanae Vitae. That *Casti Connubii *in 1930 (Pope Pius XI) had infallibly condemned contraception was apparently unknown or ignored.
When the ordinary Magisterium is also universal, that is, collectively intended for all the faithful, it is also infallible.

The Catholic Church can teach infallibly only through the Pope and an Ecumenical Council approved by the Pope.

Which is why the People of God have to be guided by the sacred teaching authority (Magisterium), and obey it – to possess the sensus fidei. As Msgr George A Kelly, explains: “The sensus fidei of the Catholic Church calls for Catholics to be trained ‘to think with the mind of the Church’…” *Battle for the American Church (Revisited), *Ignatius, 1995, p 33].

That’s just what the dissenters abhor.
 
I just wonder what’s the purpose of an “infallible doctrine against contraception” if the majority of the flock is simply ignoring it?
 
I just wonder what’s the purpose of an “infallible doctrine against contraception” if the majority of the flock is simply ignoring it?
Would you advocate…
  • Have no doctrine?
  • A false, but popular doctrine?
And is it not too late to consider either?
 
I just wonder what’s the purpose of an “infallible doctrine against contraception” if the majority of the flock is simply ignoring it?
Exactly, its obvious most ignore it or catholics would have larger families.
 
So, respond to post #395.
I dont think it should be a doctrine. I cannot see that contraception is evil. It is only sensible that couples should be allowed to decude when it is best for them to start a family. T y ere are financial reasons, health reasons.The church should have more compassion and understanding. My daughter is finishing a degree, coming off antidepressant medication, and will have to work for a couple of years before they can think about having children.cwhat should they do, abstain?
 
I dont think it should be a doctrine. I cannot see that contraception is evil. It is only sensible that couples should be allowed to decude when it is best for them to start a family. T y ere are financial reasons, health reasons.The church should have more compassion and understanding. My daughter is finishing a degree, coming off antidepressant medication, and will have to work for a couple of years before they can think about having children.cwhat should they do, abstain?
The doctrine already exists!

Is limiting sexual frequency such an intolerable notion?
 
The doctrine already exists!

Is limiting sexual frequency such an intolerable notion?
I know it exists. Nothing will persuade me that contraception is evil or wrong. I have left the church as I know I wouldnt be able to agree with and obey this teaching, but I certainly havent left jesus.
 
I know it exists. Nothing will persuade me that contraception is evil or wrong. I have left the church as I know I wouldnt be able to agree with and obey this teaching, but I certainly havent left jesus.
I’m sure you had more reasons than this to abandon the Church Jesus established! Have you formed an association with another Church?
 
First, as the Catholic Church has given us the Sacred Scriptures as the Word of God and She has been created by Jesus of Nazareth to lead us to and to teach us all truth “questioning”, as meaning that She is in error, is fanciful. The Sacred Scriptures condemn contraception, and explain the foundation by Jesus of His Church and no other.

From Fr John A Hardon, S.J.
CONTRACEPTION. Deliberate interference with marital intercourse in order to prevent conception. It is the performance of the marriage act with the positive frustration of conception. Also called conjugal onanism, from the sin of Onan, referred to in the Bible (Genesis 38:8-10);
therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl
Now correct me if I’m wrong, but I was always told that Onan was punished not for interrupting coitus, but rather disobeying the Torah command that should a man not produce a heir, his brother is to do in his place by marrying his wife and having relations with her.

I could be talking nonsense, I don’t have a bible to hand.
 
I know it exists. Nothing will persuade me that contraception is evil or wrong. I have left the church as I know I wouldnt be able to agree with and obey this teaching, but I certainly havent left jesus.
Too bad because contraception prevents a new eternal soul from entering this world. It is the very act of exerting my will over God’s and preventing his creation from occuring. It is a NO to God. If you think that’s not evil or wrong then you certainly Have left Jesus.
 
Too bad because contraception prevents a new eternal soul from entering this world. It is the very act of exerting my will over God’s and preventing his creation from occuring. It is a NO to God. If you think that’s not evil or wrong then you certainly Have left Jesus.
Jesus did not speak about contraception in the new testament. I certainly have not left jesus and i object to you telling me that i have.
 
So, respond to post #395.
I dont think it should be a doctrine. I cannot see that contraception is evil. It is only sensible that couples should be allowed to decude when it is best for them to start a family. T y ere are financial reasons, health reasons.The church should have more compassion and understanding. My daughter is finishing a degree, coming off antidepressant medication, and will have to work for a couple of years before they can think about having children.cwhat should they do, abstain?
 
Jesus did not speak about contraception in the new testament. I certainly have not left jesus and i object to you telling me that i have.
Your faith is limited to only the Words that Jesus said in the new Testament? What about the words of Jesus establishing His Church? What about the words of Jesus regarding the Eucharist in John chapter 6? What about the reliability of the Words of Jesus in the Bible at all? I mean the Church is the one that provides the Bible… So it is odd when people try to use the Bible to discount the Church. Why would the Church compile scripture that undermines or contradicts the Church? It is the logical inconsistency of Protestantism.
 
I’m sure you had more reasons than this to abandon the Church Jesus established! Have you formed an association with another Church?
I only became a catholic in 2012, topics such as this were glossed over in rica, I did go back to my previous church but I have been going to a church that a friend goes to, im praying about where I should worship permanently. I love jesus and I spend time each day in prayer and read my bible and devotional notes daily.
 
I only became a catholic in 2012, topics such as this were glossed over in rica, I did go back to my previous church but I have been going to a church that a friend goes to, im praying about where I should worship permanently. I love jesus and I spend time each day in prayer and read my bible and devotional notes daily.
Why did you become catholic?
 
Jesus did not speak about contraception in the new testament. I certainly have not left jesus and i object to you telling me that i have.
You speak from your own authority instead of surrendering to the oldest intellectual tradition on the planet (the Catholic Church)…surely, you must be right?
 
You speak from your own authority instead of surrendering to the oldest intellectual tradition on the planet (the Catholic Church)…surely, you must be right?
I am quite happy c and at peace with my decision to leave the catholic church. One thing that did sadden me though I didnt even have a phone call from anyone from the parish, not even the priest.
 
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