Which Doctrines Do All Protestants Agree Upon?

[MariaG]

OK, Contarini has pretty affectively tanked our list lol. I had somehow completely forgotten about liberal denominations. However, I would say that in all fairness that we should only count the liberal view if it is the official view of the Church would everyone agree with that? Liberalism like Fundamentalism is often and internal movement so while they do have strong voices as a whole that don’t always demonstrate the official position of their respective denominations.

So I would vote that if there is no official declaration of the belief we shouldn’t hold Protestants accountable for that because after all we have liberals to but they do not represent Catholic belief. Does that sound reasonable?

And as I said, that “un-tanks” much of the list! By and large the denominations MariaG mentioned, even when liberal, have not officially rejected their older theology but simply allow it to be ignored or reinterpreted on a large scale. The main exception (again, sticking to the traditions she lists) would consist of some of the most liberal Baptist groups such as the Alliance of Baptists. I cannot find any reference to the virgin birth or the resurrection on their website. They do talk about proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ, but it’s not clear that this means something more than social justice and liberation. Perhaps I am unfair to them, but the one member of this group I’ve encountered explicitly denied the bodily resurrection (one of the very few liberals I’ve met who did so outright rather than questioning whether it should be seen as a “resuscitation”), so based on my own experience I tend to interpret them in a negative light.

Edwin

So if we look at the Official doctrine of the churches, and possibly take the baptists off the list, since one here didn’t want to be on it , would this be the list?

Lutheran
Anglican
Episcopalian
Pentescostal
Methodist
Presbyterian

agree on

In Christ alone
Canon of Scripture
Trinity
Sunday is Christian Sabbath
All humans require a savior
Crucifixion
Virgin Birth
The bodily resurrection of Jesus
The imminent return of Jesus Christ

Salvation is through Faith alone This one has been questioned. I personally agree with Edwin on this and see little difference between the Weslean model and the Catholic one, but am willing to delete this one if a strong case is made against it from the official, mainstream doctrines and not the liberal segments within these groups.

I think we need to stick with the “official” line of a church so the canon of scripture should stay.

Jesus saves I think this one should be removed since this has different meanings among those who would claim this.

Times up.

Did not have time to see how these two effect the list. Anyone?

Given the Great Contarini’s responses, I think we’d have to add Sunday is the Christian Sabbath to our list of non-Nicene Creed, non-Apostles Creed doctrines. I believe that is the only one, given that the other candidates raised either a) are already in the Creed(s) or b) are not truly held in common by all mainline Protestant communities (similar words, significantly different understandings).

Did I miss any?

What about agreement on morals? Nearly everyone agrees that murder, theft, and lying are wrong, but what about touchier issues? I am thinking especially of issues of abortion and divorce? I have never met Protestants, of any denomination, who seem to agree on those issues. Is there any firm set of morals for the various Protestant denominations?

 

[Contarini]

Well, maybe we’ll have to define “Protestant” before listing what Protestants agree upon. If a church can start because the king wants a divorce, and that makes him a “Protestant” the same as Lutherans — well, I dunno, but that’s not what I think of when I think of “Protestants.”

I would not say that the Church of England under Henry was Protestant, although it was increasingly infiltrated by Protestant ideas and some of its actions were influenced by Protestantism. The Church of England became solidly Protestant under Edward VI, and returned to Protestantism under Elizabeth. Don’t take my word for it–read the writings of the Anglicans of that era!

Likewise if Anabaptists, who got their start in response to the Reformation because Lutherans and Reformers were wrong and who never agreed with Luther or Calvin are now “Protestants” — well, okay, fine, but don’t tell my old GARBC pastor that. He convinced that he’s not a Protestant.

First of all, the GARBC probably has no historic links to the Anabaptists whatever. This is part of Baptist mythology. Baptists are historically an offshoot of the Separatist movement in England (a radical version of Puritanism), with perhaps some Anabaptist influence. Whether we want to call the Anabaptists Protestants is a matter of definition.

Indeed, I have no quarrel with people saying that they do not identify themselves with the Protestant tradition stemming from the Reformation. That is their choice. But historically they must be confronted with the fact that their movements are deeply influenced by the Reformation and are not some kind of pristine, historically unconditioned return to the New Testament (much less the survival of an apostolic church free from Catholic corruption!).

Edwin

 

[Teflon93]

I would not say that the Church of England under Henry was Protestant, although it was increasingly infiltrated by Protestant ideas and some of its actions were influenced by Protestantism. The Church of England became solidly Protestant under Edward VI, and returned to Protestantism under Elizabeth. Don’t take my word for it–read the writings of the Anglicans of that era!

Edwin

I don’t think it’s quite that simple.

Henry VIII may have considered himself to be Catholic, certainly, but he also claimed to be head of the church in his country, refused to obey the Pope and his clerics, and pulled England out of communion with Rome. Add executing Thomas More to the mix and Henry VIII certainly fits the Protestant bill if not the theology.

Protestants were chiefly recognizable, after all, for rejecting papal authority in favor of secular rulers or theocracy.

 

[Contarini]

I don’t think it’s quite that simple.

Henry VIII may have considered himself to be Catholic, certainly, but he also claimed to be head of the church in his country, refused to obey the Pope and his clerics, and pulled England out of communion with Rome. Add executing Thomas More to the mix and Henry VIII certainly fits the Protestant bill if not the theology.

Protestants were chiefly recognizable, after all, for rejecting papal authority in favor of secular rulers or theocracy.

I’m not really interested in arguing the point, since it’s a matter of definition. Protestants themselves did not think that rejecting papal authority in favor of civil authorities (I can’t think of any magisterial Protestant church that was actually a theocracy, though Geneva has been inaccurately called one) was what was most important about them, but it certainly was a prominent feature, at least among Lutherans and the more “Erastian” Reformed such as the Edwardian and Elizabethan Anglicans. If you want to define Henrician Anglicanism as Protestant, I won’t quarrel. But neither will I insist against scottm that it was Protestant. I’ll let the two of you fight it out!

Edwin

 

[Teflon93]

I’m not really interested in arguing the point, since it’s a matter of definition. Protestants themselves did not think that rejecting papal authority in favor of civil authorities (I can’t think of any magisterial Protestant church that was actually a theocracy, though Geneva has been inaccurately called one) was what was most important about them, but it certainly was a prominent feature, at least among Lutherans and the more “Erastian” Reformed such as the Edwardian and Elizabethan Anglicans. If you want to define Henrician Anglicanism as Protestant, I won’t quarrel. But neither will I insist against scottm that it was Protestant. I’ll let the two of you fight it out!

Edwin

Fair enough—I was thinking of Geneva as the theocracy.

I certainly agree that it was Elizabeth who brought England into true Protestant alignment, however.

Henry VIII simply resists characterization.