Which Doctrines Do All Protestants Agree Upon?

[Teflon93]

I’d say that:

Jesus Saves
In Christ Alone
Trinity*
All humans require a savior
Crucifixion
Sunday worship*
Virgin Birth
Bodily resurrection of Jesus
Imminent return

Are all givens.

The only ones I would see being up in the air would be

Faith Alone: not that I think they wouldn’t all say it that way but I think that how it is interpreted would differ between some of the denominations

Also I know there is at least one Baptist sect that doesn’t believe in Sunday worship and some of the more Jewish like pentecostal groups follow the Jewish calendar.

Also at least one Pentecostals sect has unorthodox views on the Trinity.

However, I think all of the groups I mentioned are relatively small. Do we still count them?

If someone agrees with the words but fundamentally redefines what they mean (“communion of saints” for example); they do not in fact agree on the doctrine.

It is not about semantics, but about teaching.

So if one defines the Trinity as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all one in being, that is fine. If they define the Trinity as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, all one in being, that is the same thing. If they define the Trinity as Father using Holy Spirit through the Son, that is not the same thing.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

I was not questioning your faith. I was questioning your denomination.

Same thing. Really, to question whether I am Catholic, is questioning my faith. Some of the responses I’ve received, or been alluded to indirectly, all because I saw a statement as uncharitable and uncalled for, affirms my Catholic faith.

Michael

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Actually Henry VIII had written anti-Lutheran tracts prior to his break with Rome. As a result he was named Defender of the Faith by the Pope. The British monarchy uses this title even today.

Not the whole story. Here’s the rest…

[The title of] “Defender of the Faith” was granted on October 17, 1521, by Pope Leo X to King Henry VIII of England… in recognition of Henry’s book, Assertio Septem Sacramentorum (Defence of the Seven Sacraments), which defended the sacramental nature of marriage and the supremacy of the Pope.

This was also known as the “Henrician Affirmation” and was seen as an important opposition to the early stages of the Protestant Reformation, especially the ideas of Martin Luther. Following Henry’s decision to break with Rome in 1530 and establish himself as head of the Church of England, the title was revoked by Pope Paul III (since Henry’s act was regarded as an attack on “the Faith”) and Henry was excommunicated. link

Henry VIII of England urged Charles V to exterminate the Lutheran heresy by force, and wrote in 1521 (probably with the assistance of his chaplain, Edward Lee), a scholastic defence of the seven sacraments, against Luther’s “Babylonish Captivity.” He dedicated the book to Pope Leo X…

Luther read the King a lecture (in Latin and German) such as was rarely read to any crowned head. He called him “King Henry, of God’s disgrace (or wrath), King of England,” and heaped upon him the most abusive epithets…496

“King Henry helps to prove the proverb that there are no greater fools than kings and princes”… yet long afterwards he even surpassed the violence, if possible, in his savage and scurrilous attack upon Duke Henry of Brunswick…497

When there was a prospect of gaining Henry VIII for the cause of the Reformation, Luther made the matter worse by a strange inconsistency. In a most humble letter of Sept. 1, 1525, be retracted (not his doctrine, but) all the personal abuse, asked his pardon, and offered to honor his name publicly.

Henry in his reply refused the offer with royal pride and scorn… Luther now resumed his former sarcastic tone… He suspected that the answer was written by Erasmus, who had “more skill and sense in his finger than the King with all his wiseacres”…

In December of the same year in which he wrote his first book against King Henry, Luther began his important treatise “On the Secular Power, and how far obedience is due to it”…

Melanchthon regretted the fierce attack on King Henry; and when the king began to favor the Reformation, he dedicated to him the revised edition of his theological Loci (1535). He was twice called to England, but declined…498
link

An excerpt of Luther’s 1522 condemnation of Henry:

Luther called him “Lord henry by God’s ungrace King of England”; the “lying King of England”; “King Heinz”; “dear Junker”; and “Heinz of England”…

…since Henry “knowingly and consciously fabricates lies against the Majesty of my King in Heaven, this damnable rottenness and worm, I will have the right, on behalf of my King, to bespatter his English majesty with muck and s**t and to trample underfoot that crown of his which blasphemes Christ”. link

I have always wondered what English Protestantism would have looked like had the Reformers, particularly Luther, had a stronger grip on the subtleties of diplomacy.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Michael,

I think you are judging Catholics.
Incorrct
This is God’s job, not yours.
Already said that in so many words.

Encourage your Protestant friends to come to the site to share their views.
So they can listen to jokes about being united in thinking we’re the spawn of Satan? My Protestant friends are very careful about the words that come out of their mouth, and avoiding even the appearance of uncharitable words. They do not want that to detract from their witness to others. We have a beautiful message as Catholics, if we would follow their example a little better, perhaps there would be more Catholics and less Protestants?

What other Catholics are doing on Sunday, in their pews, with their shinny faces, IS between them and God.
Already said that.

Please, lets move on.
Please do, yet the replies to me directly or indirectly, some just can’t resist. Make an accusation like you think I’m judging others only initiates derailing.

peace

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

And some seemly choose to believe the worst of others.

Case in point.

 

[Contarini]

would all agree that the major branches

Lutheran
Anglican
Episcopalian
Pentescostal
Methodist
Baptist
Presbyterian

agree on

Jesus saves

Yes, although you can find liberals in all of these traditions except for Pentecostalism who would deny or highly qualify the idea that Jesus is the way of salvation (of course, Catholics would qualify it too in the sense of saying that people who haven’t heard of Jesus might be saved through him, something I believe as well).

Salvation is through Faith alone

Not in the same sense. I don’t see a lot of differences between John Wesley’s understanding of “faith alone” and Catholic teaching. Many Anglicans have an essentially Catholic view. And, again, you can find many in the more liberal/mainline churches who basically think you are saved by being a nice person, or that everyone is saved because God is too gracious to damn anyone.

In Christ alone

I’m not quite sure what you mean by this, but however defined, I don’t think it’s something all the above groups agree on–liberals would question it from one direction, and high-church Anglicans might disagree with the traditional Protestant interpretation in the same way Catholics would.

Canon of Scripture

Anglicans (and some Lutherans?) use the “Apocrypha”–officially and historically we have not regarded these books as fully canonical, but again, you can find high-church Anglicans who put them on a lesser level but would not deny that they are divinely inspired.

Trinity

Some Pentecostals do not believe in the Trinity, and I know of at least one liberal Baptist who calls himself an “Ebionite” (the ancient Jewish-Christian heresy that denies Christ’s divinity). Generally, liberal Protestants have a problem with traditional Christology rather than with the Trinity per se. However, more recently there have been moves to use “inclusive language” for the Trinity, and conservative theologians within the mainline denominations have pointed out that this language is often implicitly heretical (“Creator, Redeemer, Sustainer” implying modalism; “Creator, Christ, and Spirit” implying that only the First Person of the Trinity creates).

Sunday is Christian Sabbath

There is a tiny group of “Seventh-Day Baptists.”

All humans require a savior

See above under “Jesus saves”

Crucifixion

I really think that is one that we all agree on! Though one has to wonder about the Episcopal priest who became a Muslim. . .

Virgin Birth
The bodily resurrection of Jesus

Certainly all these traditions hold to these things in their official teaching, but again you can find liberal theologians who deny or spiritualize them (the Virgin Birth more than the Resurrection–and I’m assuming that by “Virgin Birth” you mean “Virginal Conception” rather than the traditional Catholic doctrine of virginity in partu).

The imminent return of Jesus Christ

No–some would spiritualize the whole concept; postmillenialists hold that Christ will not return until the world has been converted; and “post-trib” premil or amil Protestants (the camp into which I fall–I really don’t care about premil vs. amil) would agree with Augustine and traditional Catholicism generally that Christ will not return until after the appearance of Antichrist and the final persecution of the saints (“Great Tribulation”).

Of course, my remarks above about liberals (and to some extent also my remarks about Catholic-minded Anglicans) do not apply to the official teaching of the respective denominations/traditions. So arguably it is no fairer to use liberal Protestants to argue against doctrinal unity (when they have not shaped the official teaching of their denominations) than to use liberal Catholics in the same way. However, with regard to the universal need for salvation through Christ both the PCUSA and the Episcopal Church have, I believe (in PCUSA’s case–I know it to be the case in the Episcopal Church), voted down conservative resolutions aimed at clarifying the denomination’s adherence to the more traditional view, so I’m on firmer ground there than with something like the Virgin Birth or Resurrection, which clearly remain the official teaching of all these traditions.

Edwin

Edwin

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

BTW-there are several other unifying factors for Protestants

The belief that all jews and Catholics are going to hell

The belief that all Catholics are idol worshipers.

The belief that the Pope is the Anti-Christ

The belief that Catholics are cannibals

Ill add some more tomorrow.

Now that we are back on track with these five proposed unifying factors, time for the litmus test. Let’s all print out the list and share it with our Catholic and Protestant friends, and ask them what they think. Don’t forget to tell them first that it’s reallly meant as fun, just joking around while discussing what unifying beliefs are held by all major Protestant denominations. Actually, I’m not going to show this to my Catholic and Protestant friends, as I think both would find this offensive, even if meant jokingly. Some jokes just are not funny. If you want to rationalize it that Jesus has a sense of humor…

Can’t wait for the additional items to the list today.

Or should we just go back to the Apostle’s Creed? Anyone know if the Pentacostals agree with most of the Apostle’s Creed?

Michael

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Amen, and Amen, and Amen to that.

Whenever we get something going, the non-Catholics on the scene seem to throw up all kinds of roadblocks.

Let us get back on tread, and stop the throwing out your favorite scriptural passage as a roadblock.

peace

My apologies for the interruption, however I must ask, who are the non-Catholics throwing up all kinds of roadblocks, that you refer to?

Also, are you serious, do you consider Scripture references as a road block? Reading that gave me pause to think about that view. There is disagreement in this thread, and Phil 4:4-9 is seen as a roadblock?

Phil 4:4-9
“Therefore, my beloved brethren whom I long to see, my joy and crown, in this way stand firm in the Lord, my beloved. I urge Euodia and I urge Syntyche to live in harmony in the Lord. Indeed, true companion, I ask you also to help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, together with Clement also and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life. Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice! Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near. Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.”

Peace be with you,

Michael

 

[Teflon93]

There is a tiny group of “Seventh-Day Baptists.”

Edwin

Given the Great Contarini’s responses, I think we’d have to add Sunday is the Christian Sabbath to our list of non-Nicene Creed, non-Apostles Creed doctrines. I believe that is the only one, given that the other candidates raised either a) are already in the Creed(s) or b) are not truly held in common by all mainline Protestant communities (similar words, significantly different understandings).

Did I miss any?

 

[estesbob]

Now that we are back on track with these five proposed unifying factors, time for the litmus test. Let’s all print out the list and share it with our Catholic and Protestant friends, and ask them what they think. Don’t forget to tell them first that it’s reallly meant as fun, just joking around while discussing what unifying beliefs are held by all major Protestant denominations. Actually, I’m not going to show this to my Catholic and Protestant friends, as I think both would find this offensive, even if meant jokingly. Some jokes just are not funny. If you want to rationalize it that Jesus has a sense of humor…

Can’t wait for the additional items to the list today.

Or should we just go back to the Apostle’s Creed? Anyone know if the Pentacostals agree with most of the Apostle’s Creed?

Michael

I am on my way to Mass. I will print some more later if you want. I’ll PM them if you want as , in case you havenet noticed, you are the ONLY one who thinks they are a problem.

BTW-Ill check to make sure everyone at Mass has bright shiny faces and quiz them afterwards to see if the are Catholic enough for you.

 

[Contarini]

I am on my way to Mass. I will print some more later if you want. I’ll PM them if you want as , in case you havenet noticed, you are the ONLY one who thinks they are a problem.

That thinks what are a problem? Your list of five common elements?

I assume that those really were a joke. If you meant them seriously, you are simply demonstrating your utter ignorance of non-fundamentalist Protestantism.

Edwin

 

[rtconstant]

OK, Contarini has pretty affectively tanked our list lol. I had somehow completely forgotten about liberal denominations. However, I would say that in all fairness that we should only count the liberal view if it is the official view of the Church would everyone agree with that? Liberalism like Fundamentalism is often and internal movement so while they do have strong voices as a whole that don’t always demonstrate the official position of their respective denominations.

So I would vote that if there is no official declaration of the belief we shouldn’t hold Protestants accountable for that because after all we have liberals to but they do not represent Catholic belief. Does that sound reasonable?

 

[Contarini]

OK, Contarini has pretty affectively tanked our list lol. I had somehow completely forgotten about liberal denominations. However, I would say that in all fairness that we should only count the liberal view if it is the official view of the Church would everyone agree with that?

And as I said, that “un-tanks” much of the list! By and large the denominations MariaG mentioned, even when liberal, have not officially rejected their older theology but simply allow it to be ignored or reinterpreted on a large scale. The main exception (again, sticking to the traditions she lists) would consist of some of the most liberal Baptist groups such as the Alliance of Baptists. I cannot find any reference to the virgin birth or the resurrection on their website. They do talk about proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ, but it’s not clear that this means something more than social justice and liberation. Perhaps I am unfair to them, but the one member of this group I’ve encountered explicitly denied the bodily resurrection (one of the very few liberals I’ve met who did so outright rather than questioning whether it should be seen as a “resuscitation”), so based on my own experience I tend to interpret them in a negative light.

Edwin

 

[estesbob]

That thinks what are a problem? Your list of five common elements?

I assume that those really were a joke. If you meant them seriously, you are simply demonstrating your utter ignorance of non-fundamentalist Protestantism.

Edwin

Of course they were a joke… It back to goes post made several days ago where I said’

The one unifying factor is they all think the Catholic Church is the spawn of Satan

Note the smiley face. A couple people make joking comments back but he got on his high horse and accused me of insensitivety to Proetstantst and ruining ecumenism, yada, yada, yada. The post you replied to was part of the series where he gets increasingly agitated about my “bigotry”

 

[Ani_Ibi]

So I would vote that if there is no official declaration of the belief we shouldn’t hold Protestants accountable for that because after all we have liberals to but they do not represent Catholic belief. Does that sound reasonable?

Yes. No wannabes. Only denominations and their doctrines.

 

[rtconstant]

And as I said, that “un-tanks” much of the list! By and large the denominations MariaG mentioned, even when liberal, have not officially rejected their older theology but simply allow it to be ignored or reinterpreted on a large scale. The main exception (again, sticking to the traditions she lists) would consist of some of the most liberal Baptist groups such as the Alliance of Baptists. I cannot find any reference to the virgin birth or the resurrection on their website. They do talk about proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ, but it’s not clear that this means something more than social justice and liberation. Perhaps I am unfair to them, but the one member of this group I’ve encountered explicitly denied the bodily resurrection (one of the very few liberals I’ve met who did so outright rather than questioning whether it should be seen as a “resuscitation”), so based on my own experience I tend to interpret them in a negative light.

Edwin

Wow. Liberalism sometimes seems like a plague.

 

[mgrfin]

Same thing. Really, to question whether I am Catholic, is questioning my faith. Some of the responses I’ve received, or been alluded to indirectly, all because I saw a statement as uncharitable and uncalled for, affirms my Catholic faith.

Michael

This is not to question you directly, Michael.

However, there are visitors to this website who claim to be Catholic, and take solidly anti-Catholic positions.

So, as we read their responses to particular posts, we don’t question their faith, or their denomination, at least at first.
But we do wonder where they are coming from.

After post after post taking this anti-Catholic stance, we arrive at the view that the person is ‘a wolf in sheep’s clothing’. And, it is necessary to ask the person ‘where are they coming from’.

I think some are lying about their personal profile. It is a logical conclusion, and have to accept that such is happening.

peace

 

[scottm]

The C of E was a protestant church; even if it sprang into existence for no theological reason, plenty of theologically trained men under the Tudors were sympathetic with trends on the continent weighed in to form it.

Well, maybe we’ll have to define “Protestant” before listing what Protestants agree upon. If a church can start because the king wants a divorce, and that makes him a “Protestant” the same as Lutherans — well, I dunno, but that’s not what I think of when I think of “Protestants.”

Likewise if Anabaptists, who got their start in response to the Reformation because Lutherans and Reformers were wrong and who never agreed with Luther or Calvin are now “Protestants” — well, okay, fine, but don’t tell my old GARBC pastor that. He convinced that he’s not a Protestant.

Make a list of who is a Protestant. That would be a good start.

 

[mgrfin]

Edwin

Well, Contarini was a Cardinal after all.

One issue which is quite important. We can write a list of doctrines “Protestants agree on”.

But that is only half the story. If they were to explain these common beliefs, I am sure you would not have any agreement whatsoever. The Baptists would not agree with the Anglicans on what is the Trinity. And that is true with any doctrine with the main branches of Protestanism would be called on to explain…

It is totally misleading to say they agree on any these matters.

peace

 

[annem]

What about agreement on morals? Nearly everyone agrees that murder, theft, and lying are wrong, but what about touchier issues? I am thinking especially of issues of abortion and divorce? I have never met Protestants, of any denomination, who seem to agree on those issues. Is there any firm set of morals for the various Protestant denominations?